Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name, and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else, voiced opinions?
/HB
On 12/30/06, habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name, and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else, voiced opinions?
/HB _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación Wikimedia"
In Arabic we do translate as well --> مؤسسة ويكيميديا however, some people transliterate it into Arabic --> ويكيميديا فونداشين but the main way used on Meta right now or on WMF site is the first check [[Foundation (charity)]] [1] entry on Wikipedia, I can see WMF is defined as a foundation not a company.
A foundation is a type of philanthropic or charitable organization set up by individuals or institutions as a legal entity (a corporation or trust) with the purpose of distributing grants to support causes in line with the goals of the foundation or as a charitable entity that receives grants in order to support a specific activity or activities of charitable purpose. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., parent organization of Wikipedia, is an example of the latter.
1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(charity)
On 12/30/06, Pedro Sanchez pdsanchez@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/30/06, habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name, and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else, voiced opinions?
/HB _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación Wikimedia" _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) then "Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.
Dbl2010 On 12/30/06, Mohamed Ibrahim mido.architect@gmail.com wrote:
In Arabic we do translate as well --> مؤسسة ويكيميديا however, some people transliterate it into Arabic --> ويكيميديا فونداشين but the main way used on Meta right now or on WMF site is the first check [[Foundation (charity)]] [1] entry on Wikipedia, I can see WMF is defined as a foundation not a company.
A foundation is a type of philanthropic or charitable organization set up by individuals or institutions as a legal entity (a corporation or trust) with the purpose of distributing grants to support causes in line with the goals of the foundation or as a charitable entity that receives grants in order to support a specific activity or activities of charitable purpose. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., parent organization of Wikipedia, is an example of the latter.
1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(charity)
On 12/30/06, Pedro Sanchez pdsanchez@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/30/06, habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else, voiced opinions?
/HB _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación Wikimedia" _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
--
- [[user:Mido]]
- Arabic Wikipedia: http://ar.wikipedia.org/ "Share your knowledge"
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
In Hungarian it's translated: "Wikimedia Alapítvány". I think it is often up to the language customs. eg. the German community prefers keeping the English originals.
AgentVic
2006/12/30, A. Özgür Erdemli dbl2010@gmail.com:
In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) then "Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.
Dbl2010
On 12/30/06, Mohamed Ibrahim mido.architect@gmail.com wrote:
In Arabic we do translate as well --> مؤسسة ويكيميديا however, some people transliterate it into Arabic --> ويكيميديا فونداشين but the main way used on Meta right now or on WMF site is the first check [[Foundation (charity)]] [1] entry on Wikipedia, I can see WMF is
defined as a foundation not a company.
A foundation is a type of philanthropic or charitable organization set up
by individuals or institutions as a legal entity (a corporation or trust) with the purpose of distributing grants to support causes in line with the goals of the foundation or as a charitable entity that receives grants in order to support a specific activity or activities of charitable purpose. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., parent organization of Wikipedia, is an example of the latter.
1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(charity)
On 12/30/06, Pedro Sanchez < pdsanchez@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/30/06, habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name, and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else, voiced opinions?
/HB _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación
Wikimedia"
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
--
- [[user:Mido]]
- Arabic Wikipedia: http://ar.wikipedia.org/ "Share your knowledge"
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
As far as my research goes "Wikimedia Foundation (Inc.)" is the name of the organisation. So I leave it untouched.
Because of need of the declension in Czech language, I use kind of pleonasm -- nadace Wikimedia Foundation (nadace = "foundation").
-- Zirland
On 12/30/06, habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name, and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else, voiced opinions?
/HB _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
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habj wrote:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
I've generally used/seen 'Fondaĵo Wikimedia' in Esperanto, though I'm not certain that usage is current.
For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name, and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading to translate the word "Foundation",
Well, being a foundation and being a non-commercial company are not mutually exclusive.
As far as I understand (but I am *not* a lawyer!) there isn't really a legal definition of 'foundation' as such in the US. A legal entity that is what we'd call a foundation is going to be some sort of non-profit corporation -- the incorporation is what gives it a legal existence -- and there will be some specific legal term for that which is not "foundation".
That doesn't make it "not a foundation" any more than it makes it "not a charity" or "not an organization"; it is all of those things.
In the particular case of "Wikimedia Foundation, Inc." it is considered a domestic not-for-profit corporation under Florida state law.
But what the proper translation of that into other languages and, worse, other legal systems might be, I couldn't really say. ;)
</ianal>
and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business.
Too true. :P
Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else, voiced opinions?
When the Foundation was young and dinosaurs ruled the earth, I tried to get clear answers about how translations of project names and other such names should be managed, but the board at the time was not really interested in getting involved in the issue. (IMHO that's a problem when it comes to branding and trademark management...)
Might be worth popping the question over at HQ, see what current management thinks, but I would not be surprised if they don't consider it that big an issue to muddle in either.
In theory this ought to be a question for the executive director (presently Brad) rather than bugging individual board members, I suppose...
- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)
First, as for translation/transliteration, in Japanese we call WMF Wikimedia "Zaidan" (in Kanji, 財団), transcript Wikimedia in katakana and translate Foundation. Zaidan is both a part of Japanese civil code terminology for non-profit corporates, and prefer to a translation of "Fund", "Foundation" "Stiffung" etc.
On the other hand, if I recall correctly, German community prefer to keep the English name "Wikimedia Foundation".
Again I say, it depends on highly your audience - and of course if WMF Board/Office has an opinion, we are happy to hear from them (anyway it is their name, or not?)
On 12/31/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
When the Foundation was young and dinosaurs ruled the earth, I tried to get clear answers about how translations of project names and other such names should be managed, but the board at the time was not really interested in getting involved in the issue. (IMHO that's a problem when it comes to branding and trademark management...)
The time seems to be coming, or has come. Chinese community recently has reported there are some possible transliteration of wiki into Chinese, and any other transliterations than our Chinese friend has been adopting could be registered by the third parties, if I recall correctly; there are tons of letter which are pronounced "wi" and also "ki" ...
Might be worth popping the question over at HQ, see what current management thinks, but I would not be surprised if they don't consider it that big an issue to muddle in either.
In theory this ought to be a question for the executive director (presently Brad) rather than bugging individual board members, I suppose...
Sure, I saw a Chinese editor asked one possible transliteration of Wikiversity is okay to the Foundation. I thought Brad answered affirmatively (and the transliteration seemed to me the most natural candidate according to our current custom), but I am not sure if the Foundation would go to register/claim that Chinese literation (Wikiversity itself hasn't been registered IIRC...)
For further discussion, if we have a summary of this list of translation/-literation, it might be helpful. Has anyone alreay begin to summarize?
2006/12/31, Aphaia aphaia@gmail.com:
For further discussion, if we have a summary of this list of translation/-literation, it might be helpful. Has anyone alreay begin to summarize?
Well, so far from this mailling list we have what I compiled below, from translators to nine languages + what several of them have said about the German speaking projects.
/habj
-----------
Arabic: translated to مؤسسة ويكيميديا sometimes translitterated ويكيميديا فونداشين
Czech: Wikimedia Foundation left untranslated, explained as nadace Wikimedia Foundation (nadace = "foundation")
Esperanto: translated to Fondaĵo Wikimedia
German: not translated
Hungarian: translated to Wikimedia Alapítvány
Italian: most of the times not translated, since the legal definitions of US "foundation" and Italian "fondazione" are slightly different. If translated, it should be more correctly specified that Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto statunitense").
Japanese: translated to Wikimedia Zaidan with wikimedia translitterated in katakana, och Foundation translated to kanji for zaidan 財団
Spanish: translated to Fundación Wikimedia
Swedish: both translated to Stiftelsen Wikimedia, and untranslated is used
Turkish: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) the first time it appears, then Wikimedia Vakfı on rest of the text
Dutch: mostly not translated.
-Fruggo
On 12/31/06, habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
2006/12/31, Aphaia aphaia@gmail.com:
For further discussion, if we have a summary of this list of translation/-literation, it might be helpful. Has anyone alreay begin to summarize?
Well, so far from this mailling list we have what I compiled below, from translators to nine languages + what several of them have said about the German speaking projects.
/habj
Arabic: translated to مؤسسة ويكيميديا sometimes translitterated ويكيميديا فونداشين
Czech: Wikimedia Foundation left untranslated, explained as nadace Wikimedia Foundation (nadace = "foundation")
Esperanto: translated to Fondaĵo Wikimedia
German: not translated
Hungarian: translated to Wikimedia Alapítvány
Italian: most of the times not translated, since the legal definitions of US "foundation" and Italian "fondazione" are slightly different. If translated, it should be more correctly specified that Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto statunitense").
Japanese: translated to Wikimedia Zaidan with wikimedia translitterated in katakana, och Foundation translated to kanji for zaidan 財団
Spanish: translated to Fundación Wikimedia
Swedish: both translated to Stiftelsen Wikimedia, and untranslated is used
Turkish: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) the first time it appears, then Wikimedia Vakfı on rest of the text _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
2006/12/31, Gianluigi Gamba gigamb@tin.it:
In Italian it's left as it is most of the times, also for avoiding misunderstanding related to the slightly different legal definitions of a "foundation" is the US and a "fondazione" in Italy. Should it be translated, it should be more correctly specified that Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto statunitense").
Unlike you, most of us people who try to translate probably don't really have a clue about what our local laws consider a foundation, and how this differs to the US definition. I certainly don't. I get this kind of problem over and over again, when we get to terms that are financial or legal, regarding the WMF - the systems are so different in the different countries. Even if I ask a Swede who is informed about the field in Swedish context, he or she might not be able to help me choose the right word because there is no direct equivalent. I guess this is the same for most of the European countries; for the rest of the world I have no clue.
2006/12/31, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com:
Well, being a foundation and being a non-commercial company are not mutually exclusive.
That sounds strange to my ears - but then this is not my field at all. You've explained in enough, I think, for me to use the translated version more happily than I have (I have avoided it for some time).
2006/12/30, A. Özgür Erdemli dbl2010@gmail.com:
In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) then "Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.
I really like this solution! and I will probably copy it, at least for now. Since it clearly shows how the Turkish/Swedish/whatever name is not the actual name but merely a translation, the conclusion that there might possibly be some legal differences is there for the reader to make if he or she is concerned about such matters.
/habj
On 12/31/06, habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
2006/12/31, Gianluigi Gamba gigamb@tin.it:
In Italian it's left as it is most of the times, also for avoiding misunderstanding related to the slightly different legal definitions of a "foundation" is the US and a "fondazione" in Italy. Should it be translated, it should be more correctly specified that Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto statunitense").
Unlike you, most of us people who try to translate probably don't really have a clue about what our local laws consider a foundation, and how this differs to the US definition. I certainly don't. I get this kind of problem over and over again, when we get to terms that are financial or legal, regarding the WMF - the systems are so different in the different countries. Even if I ask a Swede who is informed about the field in Swedish context, he or she might not be able to help me choose the right word because there is no direct equivalent. I guess this is the same for most of the European countries; for the rest of the world I have no clue.
2006/12/31, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com:
Well, being a foundation and being a non-commercial company are not mutually exclusive.
That sounds strange to my ears - but then this is not my field at all. You've explained in enough, I think, for me to use the translated version more happily than I have (I have avoided it for some time).
2006/12/30, A. Özgür Erdemli dbl2010@gmail.com:
In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) then "Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.
I really like this solution! and I will probably copy it, at least for now. Since it clearly shows how the Turkish/Swedish/whatever name is not the actual name but merely a translation, the conclusion that there might possibly be some legal differences is there for the reader to make if he or she is concerned about such matters.
/habj _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Well, maybe wikilinking first appearance of "Wikimedia Foundation" (or the local equivalent" to a proper place wehre it's pointed or formarlly defined (maybe main page, it's wikimedia foundation wiki after all). ?
habj ha scritto:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual languages, or do you leave it as it is?
In Italian it's left as it is most of the times, also for avoiding misunderstanding related to the slightly different legal definitions of a "foundation" is the US and a "fondazione" in Italy. Should it be translated, it should be more correctly specified that Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto statunitense").
Bye all, G.
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