On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 5:22 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz psychoslave@culture-libre.org wrote:

Thank you Johan for the notification.

By the way, should we make https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors translatable?

I ask myself that for every page I work on on Meta, but unfortunately, if you don't understand that page in English, contributing to Tech News will be difficult. Phabricator is in English, Wikimedia technical development is in English, the newsletter is in English, it's translated from English. Unlike most pages on Meta and MediaWiki.org, I don't think the instructions for contributors to Tech News has an audience that doesn't speak English.

//Johan Jönsson --

Hi Philippe,

They are several distinct points in the answer of Johan, that you are treating as a whole.

My question here was focused on a single page. While one might disagree with it's conclusion to not translate this page, I think that the argument – for this specific page – is reasonable. It's a page targeting translator of the technews, not its general final readers. An other argument in favor of such a translation, is that one might translate not from directly from English, but from an other already translated version: sure the less you have indirection, the better, but we might have volunteers out there for who it might be the only skills they have to offer. An other argument in favor of such a translation, is that our movement praise transparency and availability of knowledge in native languages, this page is (admittedly very small part) of how we organize, so translating it fall in the intersection of this two goals.

Now, I think there are two others important points:

1. Phabricator is in English: that is clearly something that should be fixed, as it makes the tool far more difficult to use maybe even unusable for non-English speakers. 2. Wikimedia technical development is in English: well, that's also problematic, but here it's more a general global problematic of poor inclusion of internationalization problems in software development process in general (that is the internationalization of developers tools themselves, not the internationalization targeting end users). It's something for which we might try to foster good practice, but probably not easily resolve alone.

Cheers,

Mathieu

Le 28/01/2017 à 00:57, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

The Tech News is intended to tech-capable users, yes, but they are acting as relays/ambassads to explain to other people, and they will create presentation documents and have a didactiv activity. Being able to speak a common language but understandardable one for everyone is a must for these news that in fract don't enter in lot of tricky details (and that are in fact read by more people than what you think, even if they are not developers). Anyway even if you speak English on this list not everyone on Meta speak it (otherwise these news would not need to be transalted at all !)

And tech developers are not necessarily the best to speak about how to spek non technical English that are more related here to the organization itself (when we speak about the "Board"). Don't be elitist: these news are intended to be read by the world, including those not reading English. For that reason we should avoid "jargon" as much as possible (and even many technical terms have transaltions in MediaWiki because it is also intended to be used by non-English communities, where English is also undesirable and very unlikey to be understood correctly: we are in the area of usability of the software).

So no, I don't support you too limited POV.

2017-01-27 23:39 GMT+01:00 Johan Jönsson <jjonsson@wikimedia.org mailto:jjonsson@wikimedia.org>:

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 5:22 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz
<psychoslave@culture-libre.org
<mailto:psychoslave@culture-libre.org>> wrote:
> Thank you Johan for the notification.
>
> By the way, should we make
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors>
translatable?

I ask myself that for every page I work on on Meta, but unfortunately,
if you don't understand that page in English, contributing to Tech
News will be difficult. Phabricator is in English, Wikimedia technical
development is in English, the newsletter is in English, it's
translated from English. Unlike most pages on Meta and MediaWiki.org,
I don't think the instructions for contributors to Tech News has an
audience that doesn't speak English.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Le 28/01/2017 à 19:21, Johan Jönsson a écrit :

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr wrote:

...

The Tech News is intended to tech-capable users, yes, but they are acting as relays/ambassads to explain to other people, and they will create presentation documents and have a didactiv activity. Being able to speak a common language but understandardable one for everyone is a must for these news that in fract don't enter in lot of tricky details (and that are in fact read by more people than what you think, even if they are not developers). Anyway even if you speak English on this list not everyone on Meta speak it (otherwise these news would not need to be transalted at all !)

And tech developers are not necessarily the best to speak about how to spek non technical English that are more related here to the organization itself (when we speak about the "Board"). Don't be elitist: these news are intended to be read by the world, including those not reading English. For that reason we should avoid "jargon" as much as possible (and even many technical terms have transaltions in MediaWiki because it is also intended to be used by non-English communities, where English is also undesirable and very unlikey to be understood correctly: we are in the area of usability of the software).

So no, I don't support you too limited POV.

Hi Philippe,

*I don't really disagree with anything I say,*

If we don't already have one, we should create a page (maybe on Wikisource?) for this kind of lapsus pearl. ;)

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Johan Jönsson jjonsson@wikimedia.org wrote:

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Johan Jönsson jjonsson@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

The latest tech newsletter is ready for early translation: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/05

Direct translation link: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=pag...

I'm planning to send the newsletter on Monday afternoon (UTC), i.e. Monday morning PT. The existing translations will be posted on the wikis in that language. Deadlines: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors#The_deadlines

The text of the newsletter is now final. Three new items has been added since yesterday. There won't be any more changes; you can translate safely.

Thank you all for your help! It is deeply appreciated. The newsletter has now been delivered (in 21 languages) to subscribers across wikis.

//Johan Jönsson --

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Vira Motorko vira.motorko@gmail.com wrote:

21, is it a new record?

It is! Well done everyone!

//Johan Jönsson --