Greetings,
The latest tech newsletter is ready for translation: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2013/23
We will send it tomorrow, in order to give a little time for translation. The translations that are complete or mostly complete will be posted on the wikis in that language.
Note: These two templates appear on the page and need to be translated separately (if translations aren't already done): https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Tech_header https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Tech_news_nav
Let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns. I appreciate your help and feedback.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Hi Guillaume,
Wouldn't make sense to give a bit more time for translation? In general, because the time zone difference can get in the way, the one-day deadline may not be really workable for people in some parts of the world.
Best, Yusuke
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org wrote:
Greetings,
The latest tech newsletter is ready for translation: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2013/23
We will send it tomorrow, in order to give a little time for translation. The translations that are complete or mostly complete will be posted on the wikis in that language.
Note: These two templates appear on the page and need to be translated separately (if translations aren't already done): https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Tech_header https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Tech_news_nav
Let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns. I appreciate your help and feedback.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
An example is the French translation that I had completed 100% just a few minutes after receiving the notice for translation. Then it has been sent but one translation has been forgotten in the published page and in the notification sent to other user's pages or community pages, or emails. Now this missing translation displays a "clock" sumbol showing that it is desynchronized.
I don't know why it was forgotten, but it is clear that translations have been taken MUCH too soon, not waiting any reasonnable time, while we were still working to translate them just in the few hours after we received the mail informing us that a new translation should be performed.
In addition, once the notifications have been sent to user by the notifier bot, they are no longer updated on the Meta page. May be that's because I had translated all these very soon, but the translations were missing someone for reviewing and confirming it (the review was forgotten). For this reason, that string now shows only the English version when all the rest is translated.
There's something wrong in the agenda about these weeky notifications for software updates. In my opinion the transalted notifications should be given at least one more week before being sent to subscribers. And the landing page should still be updated (at least for having a more complete translation of the history that we navigate with links on top of pages.)
2013/6/5 Yusuke Matsubara whym@whym.org
Hi Guillaume,
Wouldn't make sense to give a bit more time for translation? In general, because the time zone difference can get in the way, the one-day deadline may not be really workable for people in some parts of the world.
Best, Yusuke
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org wrote:
Greetings,
The latest tech newsletter is ready for translation: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2013/23
We will send it tomorrow, in order to give a little time for translation. The translations that are complete or mostly complete will be posted on the wikis in that language.
Note: These two templates appear on the page and need to be translated separately (if translations aren't already done): https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Tech_header https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Tech_news_nav
Let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns. I appreciate your help and feedback.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Hi,
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:27 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr wrote:
An example is the French translation that I had completed 100% just a few minutes after receiving the notice for translation. Then it has been sent but one translation has been forgotten in the published page and in the notification sent to other user's pages or community pages, or emails. Now this missing translation displays a "clock" sumbol showing that it is desynchronized.
I'm not sure which one you're referring to; I get French translations posted on my talk page, and I can't seem to find English text.
In addition, once the notifications have been sent to user by the notifier bot, they are no longer updated on the Meta page. May be that's because I had translated all these very soon, but the translations were missing someone for reviewing and confirming it (the review was forgotten). For this reason, that string now shows only the English version when all the rest is translated.
And the landing page should still be updated (at least for having a more complete translation of the history that we navigate with links on top of pages.)
The page on meta does remain open for translation after the bot delivers the newsletter globally. Could you provide an example? This might be a caching or software issue.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Hi,
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Yusuke Matsubara whym@whym.org wrote:
Wouldn't make sense to give a bit more time for translation? In general, because the time zone difference can get in the way, the one-day deadline may not be really workable for people in some parts of the world.
It's a difficult choice to make. On the one hand, we would ideally want as many translations as possible, so a week of lead time would be better in this regard. On the other hand, most of the content of the tech newsletter becomes outdated very quickly, and would be mostly useless if sent a week later.
I'm open to suggestions about how to facilitate translations while sending information to subscribers before it becomes outdated.
One possibility that I'll try to adhere to as often as possible is to have a very predictable schedule, meaning for example that the deadline for having the newsletter ready for translation should be very strict. That way, translators would know that every week, there will be a window of 24 hours for translation, and the window will always be the same each week. I think more predictability would help facilitate translations.
Another possibility would be to add a note in the delivered version of the newsletter, to highlight the fact that more translations may be available later.
If you have other ideas, I'll gladly hear them.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Your short window of 24 hours will never be workable (or it will simply exclude most translators that cannot be tied to this very strict schedule) it is even worse than the 3 days delay we have now (which is in fact already shorter, due to the time needed just to receive the notification : I've already received notifications for announcements that were supposed to occur 3 days later, but whose deadline was already passed since a few hours !).
After all these weekly updates come after weeks (if not months) of developments and testings, and these translations should be announced and prepared long before, during the development, so that these translations would be ready long before the weekly updates announcements. In other words, we should ask to developers to request translations before, even if this is just for an early beta and that some translations will change several times, but at least the essential would be ready with less to translate for the last phase before launch.
2013/6/10 Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org
It's a difficult choice to make. On the one hand, we would ideally want as many translations as possible, so a week of lead time would be better in this regard. On the other hand, most of the content of the tech newsletter becomes outdated very quickly, and would be mostly useless if sent a week later.
I'm open to suggestions about how to facilitate translations while sending information to subscribers before it becomes outdated.
One possibility that I'll try to adhere to as often as possible is to have a very predictable schedule, meaning for example that the deadline for having the newsletter ready for translation should be very strict. That way, translators would know that every week, there will be a window of 24 hours for translation, and the window will always be the same each week. I think more predictability would help facilitate translations.
In other words, it's high time to realize that L10n/I18n is a full needed part of the development cycle, and it does not just consist in translating a few strings in the last few hours before release. It will be already too late to effectively test the correct localization.
Developers in MediaWiki tend to think that this is a minor issue, this is a severe error ! If we need quality translations and better usability for all users, ALL developers should include L10n/I18n in their own cycle (we've got already problems providing workable translations because developers ignored the basic grammatical requirements, or layout requirements for their UI, or because they assumed wrong things about what other languages and scripts really need).
Not all L10n may be solved immediately before release, but the difficulties requiring further developments should be scheduled so that it will orient correctly further developments. Note that quality translations also require that the new developments are testable somewhere. This is necessay to ensure that the terminologoies will match with the rest of the interface. This includes as well the help/documentation pages to prepare and that will be advertized by the new features.
2013/6/10 Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr
Your short window of 24 hours will never be workable (or it will simply exclude most translators that cannot be tied to this very strict schedule) it is even worse than the 3 days delay we have now (which is in fact already shorter, due to the time needed just to receive the notification : I've already received notifications for announcements that were supposed to occur 3 days later, but whose deadline was already passed since a few hours !).
After all these weekly updates come after weeks (if not months) of developments and testings, and these translations should be announced and prepared long before, during the development, so that these translations would be ready long before the weekly updates announcements. In other words, we should ask to developers to request translations before, even if this is just for an early beta and that some translations will change several times, but at least the essential would be ready with less to translate for the last phase before launch.
2013/6/10 Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org
It's a difficult choice to make. On the one hand, we would ideally want as many translations as possible, so a week of lead time would be better in this regard. On the other hand, most of the content of the tech newsletter becomes outdated very quickly, and would be mostly useless if sent a week later.
I'm open to suggestions about how to facilitate translations while sending information to subscribers before it becomes outdated.
One possibility that I'll try to adhere to as often as possible is to have a very predictable schedule, meaning for example that the deadline for having the newsletter ready for translation should be very strict. That way, translators would know that every week, there will be a window of 24 hours for translation, and the window will always be the same each week. I think more predictability would help facilitate translations.
translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org