Hi,
It seems like the universally-beloved Tech/News summaries translations are posted with the English title on non-English wikis. The title is translated in the Translate extension interface, but the translation is not used.
Can that be fixed, please?
Thanks!
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Hi,
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
It seems like the universally-beloved Tech/News summaries translations are posted with the English title on non-English wikis. The title is translated in the Translate extension interface, but the translation is not used.
Can that be fixed, please?
I'd love to fix it; unfortunately, I don't know if it can :/ If you have ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try.
Each translated page has a title which is accessible in the Translations: namespace, which uses the sub-id "Page display title" instead of the numeric id of a translation unit in the source page, just before hte language code.
So The French page title for
Tech/News/2014/06
should be found in
{{Translations:Tech/News/2014/06/Page display title/fr}}
The "Translations:" namespace used by the Translate Tool to store each translated unit wthin a translatable page is perfectly standard (it also includes an history like regular pages).
2014-02-01 Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org:
Hi,
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
It seems like the universally-beloved Tech/News summaries translations
are
posted with the English title on non-English wikis. The title is
translated
in the Translate extension interface, but the translation is not used.
Can that be fixed, please?
I'd love to fix it; unfortunately, I don't know if it can :/ If you have ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr wrote:
Each translated page has a title which is accessible in the Translations: namespace, which uses the sub-id "Page display title" instead of the numeric id of a translation unit in the source page, just before hte language code.
Yes. the problem is not to access the translation, but to post it.
When we were using EdwardsBot, we discussed the possibility of using a #switch for the title based on the wiki's {{CONTENTLANG}} (like we do for the message's body), but the limitation on the length of MediaWiki edit summaries prevented us from doing that.
We're now using MassMessage, but that limitation remains. I've tried to include the title in the body (the downside being that there would be a blank edit summary), but MassMessage doesn't allow to send messages without a title.
Which brings me back to: If someone has ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try. :)
A proposition:
1/ Translate on Meta the message "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}" (anywhere, for instance in Template:Tech header)
2/ Replicate by bot or by hand this message on each language wiki (WP, WS, etc.) into a template {{Tech News title}} containing the corresponding translation of "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}"
3/ Post the mass message with title "[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Template:Tech News title|{{subst:Tech News title|2014|07}}|Tech News: 2014-07}}]]" (perfect tweet: 140 characters :)
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:11:09 +0100, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org a écrit :
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr wrote:
Each translated page has a title which is accessible in the Translations: namespace, which uses the sub-id "Page display title" instead of the numeric id of a translation unit in the source page, just before hte language code.
Yes. the problem is not to access the translation, but to post it.
When we were using EdwardsBot, we discussed the possibility of using a #switch for the title based on the wiki's {{CONTENTLANG}} (like we do for the message's body), but the limitation on the length of MediaWiki edit summaries prevented us from doing that.
We're now using MassMessage, but that limitation remains. I've tried to include the title in the body (the downside being that there would be a blank edit summary), but MassMessage doesn't allow to send messages without a title.
Which brings me back to: If someone has ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try. :)
I do not see the interest of duplicating the existing title already in the Translate: namespace into a separately translatable template (which will also recreate an entry for the translated item, so the item will be tripled ! Why don't you just test and use the existing Page title item which is directly in the Translations: namespace ?
Post the mass message with title (French version tested here):
[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr|{{Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr}}|Tech News: 2014-W07}}
Note that you could even create a template that uses TNT to get the translated title:
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title}}
TNT by default uses the language detected in the content of the current page (independantly of user's preference) ; to use the user preferred/selectedlanguage (like Special:MyLanguage/) you can pass the parameter "uselang={{uselang}}", e.g.
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title|uselang={{uselang}}}}
2014-02-08 12:36 GMT+01:00 Seb35 seb35wikipedia@gmail.com:
A proposition:
1/ Translate on Meta the message "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}" (anywhere, for instance in Template:Tech header)
2/ Replicate by bot or by hand this message on each language wiki (WP, WS, etc.) into a template {{Tech News title}} containing the corresponding translation of "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}"
3/ Post the mass message with title "[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/ News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Template:Tech News title|{{subst:Tech News title|2014|07}}|Tech News: 2014-07}}]]" (perfect tweet: 140 characters :)
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:11:09 +0100, Guillaume Paumier < gpaumier@wikimedia.org> a écrit :
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr
wrote:
Each translated page has a title which is accessible in the Translations: namespace, which uses the sub-id "Page display title" instead of the numeric id of a translation unit in the source page, just before hte language code.
Yes. the problem is not to access the translation, but to post it.
When we were using EdwardsBot, we discussed the possibility of using a #switch for the title based on the wiki's {{CONTENTLANG}} (like we do for the message's body), but the limitation on the length of MediaWiki edit summaries prevented us from doing that.
We're now using MassMessage, but that limitation remains. I've tried to include the title in the body (the downside being that there would be a blank edit summary), but MassMessage doesn't allow to send messages without a title.
Which brings me back to: If someone has ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try. :)
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
As a side note, it would be fun if the "Special:MyLanguage/" extension could also work as the source of transclusion, so instead of writing
[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist: Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/{{uselang}}|{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title|uselang={{uselang}}}}|Tech News: 2014-W07}}]]
We could use more directly:
[[Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{Special:MyLanguage/ Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title}}]]
This could require change in MetaWiki's support of transclusion so that it can expand also the content of a special page. For now an attempt to transclude a special page only returns a link to its given page name. There may be issues to allow this because some special pages are very costly (or there could be privacy issues when transcluding some special pages performing special actions).
But a whitelist could be used in the MediaWiki support of transclusion to allow it to expand the contents of "Special:MyLanguage/*" but not "Special:Preferences" for example.
----
However if the "Special:MyLanguage/" prefix can work to create target links on Meta (or on another wiki) by using it after an interwiki prefix ("m:" here for Meta), this does not work with template translcusions for now! You still cannot transclude locally the content of a page located on another wiki: transclusion only works locally. So the following does not work because of this "m:" prefix in the source of transclusion:
[[m,Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{m:Special:MyLanguage/ Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title}}]]
This will only work via a long-waited new feature to support interwiki transclusion with some mecanism (where the full expansion, and wiki parsing will actually be performed by the target wiki (not locally), whuch will be intructed to convert its local links using an additional interwiki prefix given by the source wiki (like what is done in the "File:" namespace for expanding the description pages located on Commons: the expansion of the description page is performed by Commons, which inserts the additional "commons:" interwiki prefix to the links rendered in the description page, as instructed by the remote wiki requesting this expansion).
With MassMessage, the wikicode is executed on the target wiki, not on Meta. So there is no chance the pages Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/* exist on the target wiki; the translations have to be imported in a way or another on the target wikis.
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 09 Feb 2014 21:31:44 +0100, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr a écrit:
I do not see the interest of duplicating the existing title already in the Translate: namespace into a separately translatable template (which will also recreate an entry for the translated item, so the item will be tripled ! Why don't you just test and use the existing Page title item which is directly in the Translations: namespace ?
Post the mass message with title (French version tested here):
[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr|{{Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr}}|Tech News: 2014-W07}}
Note that you could even create a template that uses TNT to get the translated title:
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title}}TNT by default uses the language detected in the content of the current page (independantly of user's preference) ; to use the user preferred/selectedlanguage (like Special:MyLanguage/) you can pass the parameter "uselang={{uselang}}", e.g.
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page displaytitle|uselang={{uselang}}}}
2014-02-08 12:36 GMT+01:00 Seb35 seb35wikipedia@gmail.com:
A proposition:
1/ Translate on Meta the message "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}" (anywhere, for instance in Template:Tech header)
2/ Replicate by bot or by hand this message on each language wiki (WP, WS, etc.) into a template {{Tech News title}} containing the corresponding translation of "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}"
3/ Post the mass message with title "[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/ News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Template:Tech News title|{{subst:Tech News title|2014|07}}|Tech News: 2014-07}}]]" (perfect tweet: 140 characters :)
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:11:09 +0100, Guillaume Paumier < gpaumier@wikimedia.org> a écrit :
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr
wrote:
Each translated page has a title which is accessible in the Translations: namespace, which uses the sub-id "Page display title" instead of the numeric id of a translation unit in the source page, just before hte language code.
Yes. the problem is not to access the translation, but to post it.
When we were using EdwardsBot, we discussed the possibility of using a #switch for the title based on the wiki's {{CONTENTLANG}} (like we do for the message's body), but the limitation on the length of MediaWiki edit summaries prevented us from doing that.
We're now using MassMessage, but that limitation remains. I've tried to include the title in the body (the downside being that there would be a blank edit summary), but MassMessage doesn't allow to send messages without a title.
Which brings me back to: If someone has ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try. :)
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Looks like a possible extension for https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54839 .
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Seb35 seb35wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
With MassMessage, the wikicode is executed on the target wiki, not on Meta. So there is no chance the pages Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/* exist on the target wiki; the translations have to be imported in a way or another on the target wikis.
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 09 Feb 2014 21:31:44 +0100, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr a écrit:
I do not see the interest of duplicating the existing title already in the Translate: namespace into a separately translatable template (which will also recreate an entry for the translated item, so the item will be tripled ! Why don't you just test and use the existing Page title item which is directly in the Translations: namespace ?
Post the mass message with title (French version tested here):
[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr|{{Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr}}|Tech News: 2014-W07}}
Note that you could even create a template that uses TNT to get the translated title:
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title}}TNT by default uses the language detected in the content of the current page (independantly of user's preference) ; to use the user preferred/selectedlanguage (like Special:MyLanguage/) you can pass the parameter "uselang={{uselang}}", e.g.
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page displaytitle|uselang={{uselang}}}}
2014-02-08 12:36 GMT+01:00 Seb35 seb35wikipedia@gmail.com:
A proposition:
1/ Translate on Meta the message "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}" (anywhere, for instance in Template:Tech header)
2/ Replicate by bot or by hand this message on each language wiki (WP, WS, etc.) into a template {{Tech News title}} containing the corresponding translation of "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}"
3/ Post the mass message with title "[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/ News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Template:Tech News title|{{subst:Tech News title|2014|07}}|Tech News: 2014-07}}]]" (perfect tweet: 140 characters :)
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:11:09 +0100, Guillaume Paumier < gpaumier@wikimedia.org> a écrit :
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr
wrote:
Each translated page has a title which is accessible in the Translations: namespace, which uses the sub-id "Page display title" instead of the numeric id of a translation unit in the source page, just before hte language code.
Yes. the problem is not to access the translation, but to post it.
When we were using EdwardsBot, we discussed the possibility of using a #switch for the title based on the wiki's {{CONTENTLANG}} (like we do for the message's body), but the limitation on the length of MediaWiki edit summaries prevented us from doing that.
We're now using MassMessage, but that limitation remains. I've tried to include the title in the body (the downside being that there would be a blank edit summary), but MassMessage doesn't allow to send messages without a title.
Which brings me back to: If someone has ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try. :)
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Why do we do that ? You should expand the wikicode on the source wiki, before posting it !
It's true that this is something that MassMessage should be able to do itself: not posting random wiki code, but expanding it on the source.
This would be more reliable, and then no need to import various templates (possibly incompatible or conflicting) along with posted messages: the posted messages would contain absolutely no template transclusion.
This would also mean that we don't need to use "m:" prefixes: the wiki links that do work on the source wiki will continue working on the target one (but MassMessage must translate these interwiki prefixes itself, because the wiki expansion does not generate the HTML, but stops at the full expansion of the wikisyntax, and it's impossible to post URLs without breaking the code in many places where URLs are not accepted, but wikilinks do work).
If then MassMessage posts to emails, it will ask for the conversion of the wiki code (already fully expanded on the source wiki) into HTML to generate the email bodies.
2014-02-10 19:21 GMT+01:00 Seb35 seb35wikipedia@gmail.com:
With MassMessage, the wikicode is executed on the target wiki, not on Meta. So there is no chance the pages Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/* exist on the target wiki; the translations have to be imported in a way or another on the target wikis.
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 09 Feb 2014 21:31:44 +0100, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr a écrit:
I do not see the interest of duplicating the existing title already in the
Translate: namespace into a separately translatable template (which will also recreate an entry for the translated item, so the item will be tripled ! Why don't you just test and use the existing Page title item which is directly in the Translations: namespace ?
Post the mass message with title (French version tested here):
[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist: Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr|{{Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title/fr}}|Tech News: 2014-W07}}
Note that you could even create a template that uses TNT to get the translated title:
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page display title}}TNT by default uses the language detected in the content of the current page (independantly of user's preference) ; to use the user preferred/selectedlanguage (like Special:MyLanguage/) you can pass the parameter "uselang={{uselang}}", e.g.
{{TNT|Translations:Tech/News/2014/07/Page displaytitle|uselang={{uselang}}}}
2014-02-08 12:36 GMT+01:00 Seb35 seb35wikipedia@gmail.com:
A proposition:
1/ Translate on Meta the message "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}" (anywhere, for instance in Template:Tech header)
2/ Replicate by bot or by hand this message on each language wiki (WP, WS, etc.) into a template {{Tech News title}} containing the corresponding translation of "Tech News: {{{1}}}-{{{2}}}"
3/ Post the mass message with title "[[m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/ News/2014/07|{{subst:#ifexist:Template:Tech News title|{{subst:Tech News title|2014|07}}|Tech News: 2014-07}}]]" (perfect tweet: 140 characters :)
~ Seb35
Le Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:11:09 +0100, Guillaume Paumier < gpaumier@wikimedia.org> a écrit :
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Philippe Verdy verdy_p@wanadoo.fr
wrote:
Each translated page has a title which is accessible in the
Translations: namespace, which uses the sub-id "Page display title" instead of the numeric id of a translation unit in the source page, just before hte language code.
Yes. the problem is not to access the translation, but to post it.
When we were using EdwardsBot, we discussed the possibility of using a #switch for the title based on the wiki's {{CONTENTLANG}} (like we do for the message's body), but the limitation on the length of MediaWiki edit summaries prevented us from doing that.
We're now using MassMessage, but that limitation remains. I've tried to include the title in the body (the downside being that there would be a blank edit summary), but MassMessage doesn't allow to send messages without a title.
Which brings me back to: If someone has ideas about how to do it, I'm happy to try. :)
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org