Hello,
I propose to migrate the WMF translation projects to the Translate extension: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28021
This will make the translation much more efficient and save a lot of time for everyone.
Your comments are welcome.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
I'll copy my comment to Siebrand (supposing @translatewiki is him) on this idea: «the idea is good, but translating non-technical texts into other languages is not obvious (i.e. message to message translations.)»
What do I mean? From language to language way of expressing phrases may differ. In one language one may be expressed with one sentence, in another it can be expressed with two sentences (if you follow style rules for the language). In its turn, these sentences may be connected with the next or the previous ones by implication. So you can't just translate sentences somewhere near 'out of context'.
That's my opinion.
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Hello,
I propose to migrate the WMF translation projects to the Translate extension: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28021
This will make the translation much more efficient and save a lot of time for everyone.
Your comments are welcome.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Then I will copy my reply ;)
@wizardist No one said it is trivial. But tooling is needed and that is what Translate provides with Page Translation http://is.gd/23wLln
On 13-03-11 11:20 Paul Selitskas p.selitskas@gmail.com wrote:
I'll copy my comment to Siebrand (supposing @translatewiki is him) on this idea: «the idea is good, but translating non-technical texts into other languages is not obvious (i.e. message to message translations.)»
What do I mean? From language to language way of expressing phrases may differ. In one language one may be expressed with one sentence, in another it can be expressed with two sentences (if you follow style rules for the language). In its turn, these sentences may be connected with the next or the previous ones by implication. So you can't just translate sentences somewhere near 'out of context'.
That's my opinion.
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Hello,
I propose to migrate the WMF translation projects to the Translate extension: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28021
This will make the translation much more efficient and save a lot of time for everyone.
Your comments are welcome.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
-- З павагай, Павел Селіцкас/Paul Selitskas Wizardist @ Wikimedia projects p.selitskas@gmail.com, +375257408304 Skype: p.selitskas
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
2011/3/13 Paul Selitskas p.selitskas@gmail.com:
I'll copy my comment to Siebrand (supposing @translatewiki is him) on this idea: «the idea is good, but translating non-technical texts into other languages is not obvious (i.e. message to message translations.)»
What do I mean? From language to language way of expressing phrases may differ. In one language one may be expressed with one sentence, in another it can be expressed with two sentences (if you follow style rules for the language). In its turn, these sentences may be connected with the next or the previous ones by implication. So you can't just translate sentences somewhere near 'out of context'.
This is true. The Translate extension, at least in its current state, is not be suitable for every translation task.
But it is already perfectly suited for surveys, Fundraising landing pages and CentralNotice.
Respectfully disagreed, Amir, that was not perfectly suited.
For example, "First" and "Last" variables in the language page were translated literally which had been meant first and last names in some language (I wouldn't like to mention what it was, it's a bit embarassment, eh?) - and a certain donor complained to otrs that they were meaningless. I'd have liked it were easier in twn to view a certain valuable would be used in which context, if MediaWiki developers could not avoid their anglocentric attitude totally; it couldn't happen when these valuables had been named "name" and "surname".
As said, I'm not totally happy and unworried on translatewiki.net environment, but on the other hand, such error was nothing to do with Translate extention discussed on this thread. Giving a consideration to include it meta or heavily translation needed wikis is welcome in my personal opinion.
So dear translators what do you think about that?
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
2011/3/13 Paul Selitskas p.selitskas@gmail.com:
I'll copy my comment to Siebrand (supposing @translatewiki is him) on this idea: ≪the idea is good, but translating non-technical texts into other languages is not obvious (i.e. message to message translations.)≫
What do I mean? From language to language way of expressing phrases may differ. In one language one may be expressed with one sentence, in another it can be expressed with two sentences (if you follow style rules for the language). In its turn, these sentences may be connected with the next or the previous ones by implication. So you can't just translate sentences somewhere near 'out of context'.
This is true. The Translate extension, at least in its current state, is not be suitable for every translation task.
But it is already perfectly suited for surveys, Fundraising landing pages and CentralNotice.
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
2011/3/26 KIZU Naoko aphaia@gmail.com:
Respectfully disagreed, Amir, that was not perfectly suited.
For example, "First" and "Last" variables in the language page were translated literally which had been meant first and last names in some language (I wouldn't like to mention what it was, it's a bit embarassment, eh?) - and a certain donor complained to otrs that they were meaningless. I'd have liked it were easier in twn to view a certain valuable would be used in which context, if MediaWiki developers could not avoid their anglocentric attitude totally; it couldn't happen when these valuables had been named "name" and "surname".
Indeed - the writers of the original English should choose expressions that are as unambiguous as possible. I wrote about it in a thread on foundation-l very recently
Sometimes even that doesn't help, but the Translate extension has a structured solution for it: the message can be documented and the documentation will explain the context. Here are, for example, all the documented messages for MediaWiki: http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&task=view&...
And here is a translation page for a message, with the displayed documentation: http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=MediaWiki:Passwordremindertext/ja&...
The writers of the English text need to write comments for the localizers in any case; The Translate extension makes it easier and more structured both for the writers and the translators.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
I don't think original texts should be by any means unambiguous. On the other hand, some comments on such ambiguos messages and pieces should be appropriately commented.
On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
2011/3/26 KIZU Naoko aphaia@gmail.com:
Respectfully disagreed, Amir, that was not perfectly suited.
For example, "First" and "Last" variables in the language page were translated literally which had been meant first and last names in some language (I wouldn't like to mention what it was, it's a bit embarassment, eh?) - and a certain donor complained to otrs that they were meaningless. I'd have liked it were easier in twn to view a certain valuable would be used in which context, if MediaWiki developers could not avoid their anglocentric attitude totally; it couldn't happen when these valuables had been named "name" and "surname".
Indeed - the writers of the original English should choose expressions that are as unambiguous as possible. I wrote about it in a thread on foundation-l very recently
Sometimes even that doesn't help, but the Translate extension has a structured solution for it: the message can be documented and the documentation will explain the context. Here are, for example, all the documented messages for MediaWiki: http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&task=view&...
And here is a translation page for a message, with the displayed documentation: http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=MediaWiki:Passwordremindertext/ja&...
The writers of the English text need to write comments for the localizers in any case; The Translate extension makes it easier and more structured both for the writers and the translators.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Amir E. Aharoni napisa:
Sometimes even that doesn't help, but the Translate extension has a structured solution for it: the message can be documented and the documentation will explain the context. Here are, for example, all the documented messages for MediaWiki: http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&task=view&...
Yes but sometimes the documentation text (qqq) isn't helpful. For instance with StatusNet: It isn't helpful to specify the path to the corresponding line within the source code. In the source code isn't a documentation text, either. That doesn't help.
It's difficult for the TWN team to document **all** messages. It's an ideal that will never be.
Regards, Michawiki
2011/3/26 Michael Wolf milupo@sorbzilla.de:
Amir E. Aharoni napisa:
Sometimes even that doesn't help, but the Translate extension has a structured solution for it: the message can be documented and the documentation will explain the context. Here are, for example, all the documented messages for MediaWiki: http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&task=view&...
Yes but sometimes the documentation text (qqq) isn't helpful. For instance with StatusNet: It isn't helpful to specify the path to the corresponding line within the source code. In the source code isn't a documentation text, either. That doesn't help.
It's difficult for the TWN team to document **all** messages. It's an ideal that will never be.
It's true, but it's much better than just plain MediaWiki.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni <at> mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
Hello,
I propose to migrate the WMF translation projects to the Translate extension: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28021
Is there a demo version where we could test its usefulness? Maybe preloaded with some current translation task?
Feel free to use sandbox.translatewiki.net. Please ask for the wiki to be updated on irc. Same for access rights for translation and page translation administration.
Siebrand Mazeland M: +31 6 50 69 1239 Skype: siebrand
On 13 mrt. 2011, at 13:31, Tisza Gergő gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni <at> mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
Hello,
I propose to migrate the WMF translation projects to the Translate extension: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28021
Is there a demo version where we could test its usefulness? Maybe preloaded with some current translation task?
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
2011/3/13 Tisza Gergő gtisza@gmail.com:
Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni <at> mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
Hello,
I propose to migrate the WMF translation projects to the Translate extension: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28021
Is there a demo version where we could test its usefulness? Maybe preloaded with some current translation task?
Translatewiki.net is probably the biggest site that uses it. I am not aware of any others. Siebrand can probably correct me.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
Actually, twn is pretty small on page translation. We have less than 10 pages up for translation.
The biggest site is userbase.kde.org. They have more then 100 pages for translation.
Siebrand Mazeland M: +31 6 50 69 1239 Skype: siebrand
On 13 mrt. 2011, at 14:32, "Amir E. Aharoni" amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
2011/3/13 Tisza Gergő gtisza@gmail.com:
Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni <at> mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
Hello,
I propose to migrate the WMF translation projects to the Translate extension: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28021
Is there a demo version where we could test its usefulness? Maybe preloaded with some current translation task?
Translatewiki.net is probably the biggest site that uses it. I am not aware of any others. Siebrand can probably correct me.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org