Automated translation not working? - Translators-l

Amir E. Aharoni

16 Apr 16 Apr

1:02 p.m.

In the Content Translation extension in Wikipedia, machine translation into German was never enabled, but it may be enabled in the future. בתאריך 16 באפר׳ 2017 13:30,‏ "Bjoern Hassler" <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com> כתב:

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Dear all, It seems the automated translation is not working in the two column layout (English->German) - though maybe I'm misunderstanding something? Basically, I'm here: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Inhalts% C3%BCbersetzung&page=Biniai+Nou+hypogea&from=en&to=de& targettitle=Biniai+Nou+hypogea I've got "Automatische Übersetzung > Ausgangstext verwenden" selected. So when clicking "+ Übersetzung hinzufügen" my expectation is that an automated translation of the English text into German will appear (in the right column), for further editing. However, instead, an exact copy of the English text appears in the right column also. I also posted this here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Content_translation Some help would be greatly appreciated! Many thanks! Bjoern _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l

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Philippe Verdy

10:38 p.m.

This is displayed in the top header (yellow box) which lsits the "proiritized" languages. Anyway there's another setting (not displayed) that disallow other translations (this was discussed recently when someone created a page to translate ONLY in minority languages, exclusing all other major languages than the source English). Experience shows that (espacially for minory languages that very few translators available, many of them not being very fluent in English) we need to always enable other languages thant English to help disambiguate the English source so that translators for minority languages can see translations proposed in other major languages and that are better reviewed, in order to provide better translations not just based on the English source but also on what they can better read and understand in another language. I must confess that I see no reason to exclude any language (except old compatibility languages whose use is no longer recommanded, and which may be configured globally, only if there's other choices of language codes: those compatibility codes will finally be redirected to new ones or locked down). And for the ~15 major languages of the world (that are used as lingua francas for regional or national interchanges) they should never be disabled (notably because they are already used as fallback languages for missing translations in minority languages). For a list of fallback languages (that should never be disabled), see for example what is implemented in Commons and MetaWiki; this is more than just English which is only the last-chance fallback ! The list of fallbacks was first implemtend as templates ,then as modules, and now as part of global wiki configuration (and part now of MediaWiki itself with its API). 2017-04-16 13:15 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>:

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Thanks! How do I find out which language pairs are enabled?

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Philippe Verdy

1:17 p.m.

You did not specify which source page are you trying to translate, and on which wiki.... Then we can look at the target of your translation attempt. Your provided this link: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Inhalts% C3%BCbersetzung&page=Biniai+Nou+hypogea&from=en&to=de& targettitle=Biniai+Nou+hypogea But the German Wikipedia does not have any page named "Biniai Nou hypogea". You are probably trying to find this page on the wrong wiki ! Translations are made wiki by wiki, but are enabled essentially on multilingual wikis (such as Commons, or Meta), not on Wikipedia (translations of pages between separate editions of Wikipedia cannot use the same tools) 2017-04-17 9:26 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Hi Philippe, many thanks. Do you mean e.g. on https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:Inhalts%C3% BCbersetzung ? I don't see a yellow box? There is "Von einer beliebigen Sprache / In eine beliebige Sprache", but that lists English/German in both. In any case - are you basically saying that English <-> German could be enabled? Many thanks! Bjoern On 16 April 2017 at 21:38, Philippe Verdy <verdy_p(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote:

This is displayed in the top header (yellow box) which lsits the "proiritized" languages. Anyway there's another setting (not displayed) that disallow other translations (this was discussed recently when someone created a page to translate ONLY in minority languages, exclusing all other major languages than the source English). Experience shows that (espacially for minory languages that very few translators available, many of them not being very fluent in English) we need to always enable other languages thant English to help disambiguate the English source so that translators for minority languages can see translations proposed in other major languages and that are better reviewed, in order to provide better translations not just based on the English source but also on what they can better read and understand in another language. I must confess that I see no reason to exclude any language (except old compatibility languages whose use is no longer recommanded, and which may be configured globally, only if there's other choices of language codes: those compatibility codes will finally be redirected to new ones or locked down). And for the ~15 major languages of the world (that are used as lingua francas for regional or national interchanges) they should never be disabled (notably because they are already used as fallback languages for missing translations in minority languages). For a list of fallback languages (that should never be disabled), see for example what is implemented in Commons and MetaWiki; this is more than just English which is only the last-chance fallback ! The list of fallbacks was first implemtend as templates ,then as modules, and now as part of global wiki configuration (and part now of MediaWiki itself with its API). 2017-04-16 13:15 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>:

Thanks! How do I find out which language pairs are enabled?

_______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l

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Whatamidoing (WMF)/Sherry Snyder

7:20 p.m.

Philippe, as the URL shows, he's using Special:ContentTranslation (=available at all the Wikipedias and specifically designed for translating Wikipedia articles), not Special:Translate (which is mostly used at Meta and mediawiki.org). ContentTranslation offers some built-in machine translation options. (Think "built-in translate.google.com", not the other tool's translation memory system.) Machine translation *into* German or English isn't available in ContentTranslation at the moment. As it happens, ContentTranslation does not care which language wiki you're logged into. If you want, you can go to the Spanish Wikipedia and translate an English Wikipedia article into German, and publish your translation on the German Wikipedia. On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:19 AM Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Hi Philippe, Thanks! I'm trying to translate en:Biniai Nou hypogea to new page in German (on de.wikipedia ...) Bjoern On 17 Apr 2017 12:17, "Philippe Verdy" <verdy_p(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: You did not specify which source page are you trying to translate, and on which wiki.... Then we can look at the target of your translation attempt. Your provided this link: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Inhalts%C3%BCbersetzung&… But the German Wikipedia does not have any page named "Biniai Nou hypogea". You are probably trying to find this page on the wrong wiki ! Translations are made wiki by wiki, but are enabled essentially on multilingual wikis (such as Commons, or Meta), not on Wikipedia (translations of pages between separate editions of Wikipedia cannot use the same tools) 2017-04-17 9:26 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>:

Hi Philippe, many thanks. Do you mean e.g. on https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:Inhalts%C3%BCbersetzung ? I don't see a yellow box? There is "Von einer beliebigen Sprache / In eine beliebige Sprache", but that lists English/German in both. In any case - are you basically saying that English <-> German could be enabled? Many thanks! Bjoern On 16 April 2017 at 21:38, Philippe Verdy <verdy_p(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote:

This is displayed in the top header (yellow box) which lsits the "proiritized" languages. Anyway there's another setting (not displayed) that disallow other translations (this was discussed recently when someone created a page to translate ONLY in minority languages, exclusing all other major languages than the source English). Experience shows that (espacially for minory languages that very few translators available, many of them not being very fluent in English) we need to always enable other languages thant English to help disambiguate the English source so that translators for minority languages can see translations proposed in other major languages and that are better reviewed, in order to provide better translations not just based on the English source but also on what they can better read and understand in another language. I must confess that I see no reason to exclude any language (except old compatibility languages whose use is no longer recommanded, and which may be configured globally, only if there's other choices of language codes: those compatibility codes will finally be redirected to new ones or locked down). And for the ~15 major languages of the world (that are used as lingua francas for regional or national interchanges) they should never be disabled (notably because they are already used as fallback languages for missing translations in minority languages). For a list of fallback languages (that should never be disabled), see for example what is implemented in Commons and MetaWiki; this is more than just English which is only the last-chance fallback ! The list of fallbacks was first implemtend as templates ,then as modules, and now as part of global wiki configuration (and part now of MediaWiki itself with its API). 2017-04-16 13:15 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>:

Thanks! How do I find out which language pairs are enabled?

_______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l

-- Sherry Snyder (WhatamIdoing) Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation

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Amir E. Aharoni

21 Apr 21 Apr

5:45 p.m.

It is not enabled also for several other languages, among them Dutch and English. We plan to enable all of them, but given that these are large editors communities, we need to approach each of them and check the quality carefully. Your interest will hopefully make this quicker :) -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2017-04-18 13:53 GMT+03:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Hi Sherry, many thanks! Machine translation *into* German or English isn't available in

ContentTranslation at the moment.

That's a shame - do you know what that is? Thanks, Bjoern On 17 April 2017 at 18:20, Whatamidoing (WMF)/Sherry Snyder < ssnyder(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

Philippe, as the URL shows, he's using Special:ContentTranslation (=available at all the Wikipedias and specifically designed for translating Wikipedia articles), not Special:Translate (which is mostly used at Meta and mediawiki.org). ContentTranslation offers some built-in machine translation options. (Think "built-in translate.google.com", not the other tool's translation memory system.) Machine translation *into* German or English isn't available in ContentTranslation at the moment. As it happens, ContentTranslation does not care which language wiki you're logged into. If you want, you can go to the Spanish Wikipedia and translate an English Wikipedia article into German, and publish your translation on the German Wikipedia. On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:19 AM Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Philippe, Thanks! I'm trying to translate en:Biniai Nou hypogea to new page in German (on de.wikipedia ...) Bjoern On 17 Apr 2017 12:17, "Philippe Verdy" <verdy_p(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: You did not specify which source page are you trying to translate, and on which wiki.... Then we can look at the target of your translation attempt. Your provided this link: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Inhalts% C3%BCbersetzung&page=Biniai+Nou+hypogea&from=en&to=de& targettitle=Biniai+Nou+hypogea But the German Wikipedia does not have any page named "Biniai Nou hypogea". You are probably trying to find this page on the wrong wiki ! Translations are made wiki by wiki, but are enabled essentially on multilingual wikis (such as Commons, or Meta), not on Wikipedia (translations of pages between separate editions of Wikipedia cannot use the same tools) 2017-04-17 9:26 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>:

Hi Philippe, many thanks. Do you mean e.g. on https://de.wikipedia.org/wi ki/Spezial:Inhalts%C3%BCbersetzung ? I don't see a yellow box? There is "Von einer beliebigen Sprache / In eine beliebige Sprache", but that lists English/German in both. In any case - are you basically saying that English <-> German could be enabled? Many thanks! Bjoern On 16 April 2017 at 21:38, Philippe Verdy <verdy_p(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: > This is displayed in the top header (yellow box) which lsits the > "proiritized" languages. Anyway there's another setting (not displayed) > that disallow other translations (this was discussed recently when someone > created a page to translate ONLY in minority languages, exclusing all other > major languages than the source English). > > Experience shows that (espacially for minory languages that very few > translators available, many of them not being very fluent in English) we > need to always enable other languages thant English to help disambiguate > the English source so that translators for minority languages can see > translations proposed in other major languages and that are better > reviewed, in order to provide better translations not just based on the > English source but also on what they can better read and understand in > another language. > > I must confess that I see no reason to exclude any language (except > old compatibility languages whose use is no longer recommanded, and which > may be configured globally, only if there's other choices of language > codes: those compatibility codes will finally be redirected to new ones or > locked down). > > And for the ~15 major languages of the world (that are used as lingua > francas for regional or national interchanges) they should never be > disabled (notably because they are already used as fallback languages for > missing translations in minority languages). For a list of fallback > languages (that should never be disabled), see for example what is > implemented in Commons and MetaWiki; this is more than just English which > is only the last-chance fallback ! The list of fallbacks was first > implemtend as templates ,then as modules, and now as part of global wiki > configuration (and part now of MediaWiki itself with its API). > > > 2017-04-16 13:15 GMT+02:00 Bjoern Hassler <bjohas+mw(a)gmail.com>om>: > >> Thanks! How do I find out which language pairs are enabled? >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Translators-l mailing list > Translators-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l > >

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-- Sherry Snyder (WhatamIdoing) Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l

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