The CentralNotices are now live on all the projects (including sister projects). To make this possible, we had to change translations of "Wikipedia" to "{{SITENAME}}". Some languages (like ru/uk), will need more changes in order to have accurate grammar. If your language is one of these, please respond to this e-mail.
In your response, we will need to know what the text will be for each sister project. For example, on uk, the text for Вікіпедія (Wikipedia) had to be "Вікіпедію", but all the others stayed the same -- they would send us that information.
2008/11/11 Casey Brown cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com:
The CentralNotices are now live on all the projects (including sister projects). To make this possible, we had to change translations of "Wikipedia" to "{{SITENAME}}". Some languages (like ru/uk), will need more changes in order to have accurate grammar. If your language is one of these, please respond to this e-mail.
In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am afraid.
More specifically:
2008 meter 1-donate-text cannot have identical text for all projects, since Wikipedia and Wikiversity (and all those using "Wikimedia" instead of the site name) need {{SITENAME}} je závislá na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy. Wiktionary needs {{SITENAME}} je závislý na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy. and Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews require {{SITENAME}} jsou závislé na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.
Dtto for 2008 nometer 2-donate-text – for Wikipedia and Wikiversity: {{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když ji potřebujete – teď potřebuje ona vás. for Wiktionary: {{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když jej potřebujete – teď potřebuje on vás. and for Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews: {{SITENAME}} jsou zde pro vás, když je potřebujete – teď potřebují ony vás.
This could easily be reduced to two cases instead of three, or get rid of {{SITENAME}} entirely and use "we", which would work around the problem entirely.
Also, grammatical case needs to be observed, but that would be possible even across projects using {{grammar:}} – all donate-text-small needs to have {{grammar:4sg}} applied to {{SITENAME}}, i.e.: Podpořte neziskový projekt. Podpořte {{grammar:4sg|{{SITENAME}}}}.
(Or, is it possible to receive centralnotice_translate_rights on Meta?)
-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
Hello,
as far as I know, temp sysop is easily granted for any technical purpose including translation etc. In your case, Mormegil, I strongly endorse your request if you would like to have it based on your long term devotion and good reputation.
For central notice, unless I misunderstand, it can be set both for multiple wikis (e.g. for all projects of a certain language) and for a single wiki (e.g. for Czeck Wikinews). If it is much easier, it would be an idea to set up single notice for each Czeck projects ... anyway there are only up to nine projects.
Thought?
Cheers,
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Petr Kadlec petr.kadlec@gmail.com wrote:
2008/11/11 Casey Brown cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com:
The CentralNotices are now live on all the projects (including sister projects). To make this possible, we had to change translations of "Wikipedia" to "{{SITENAME}}". Some languages (like ru/uk), will need more changes in order to have accurate grammar. If your language is one of these, please respond to this e-mail.
In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am afraid.
More specifically:
2008 meter 1-donate-text cannot have identical text for all projects, since Wikipedia and Wikiversity (and all those using "Wikimedia" instead of the site name) need {{SITENAME}} je závislá na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy. Wiktionary needs {{SITENAME}} je závislý na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy. and Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews require {{SITENAME}} jsou závislé na vašich příspěvcích, přispějte i vy.
Dtto for 2008 nometer 2-donate-text – for Wikipedia and Wikiversity: {{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když ji potřebujete – teď potřebuje ona vás. for Wiktionary: {{SITENAME}} je zde pro vás, když jej potřebujete – teď potřebuje on vás. and for Wikiquote, Wikibooks, and Wikinews: {{SITENAME}} jsou zde pro vás, když je potřebujete – teď potřebují ony vás.
This could easily be reduced to two cases instead of three, or get rid of {{SITENAME}} entirely and use "we", which would work around the problem entirely.
Also, grammatical case needs to be observed, but that would be possible even across projects using {{grammar:}} – all donate-text-small needs to have {{grammar:4sg}} applied to {{SITENAME}}, i.e.: Podpořte neziskový projekt. Podpořte {{grammar:4sg|{{SITENAME}}}}.
(Or, is it possible to receive centralnotice_translate_rights on Meta?)
-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] _______________________________________________ Translators-l mailing list Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
Aphaia napisa:
For central notice, unless I misunderstand, it can be set both for multiple wikis (e.g. for all projects of a certain language) and for a single wiki (e.g. for Czeck Wikinews). If it is much easier, it would be an idea to set up single notice for each Czeck projects ... anyway there are only up to nine projects.
Hello,
I remember there was in LanguageXx(x).php a grammar rule for the project names. But they are deleted now. Why?
It was a switch command for the grammatical cases of all wiki projects - here for Upper Sorbian:
switch ( $case ) { case 'genitiw': # genitive if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) { $word = 'Wikipedije'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) { $word = 'Wikiknih'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) { $word = 'Wikinowin'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) { $word = 'Wikižórła'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) { $word = 'Wikicitatow'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) { $word = 'Wikisłownika'; } break; case 'datiw': # dativ if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) { $word = 'Wikipediji'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) { $word = 'Wikikniham'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) { $word = 'Wikinowinam'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) { $word = 'Wikižórłu'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) { $word = 'Wikicitatam'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) { $word = 'Wikisłownikej'; } break; case 'akuzativ': # akuzativ if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) { $word = 'Wikipediju'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) { $word = 'Wikiknknihi'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) { $word = 'Wikinowiny'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) { $word = 'Wikižórło'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) { $word = 'Wikicitaty'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) { $word = 'Wikisłownik'; } break; case 'instrumental': # instrumental if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) { $word = 'Wikipediju'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) { $word = 'Wikiknihami'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) { $word = 'Wikinowinami'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) { $word = 'Wikižórłom'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) { $word = 'Wikicitatami'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) { $word = 'Wikisłownikom'; } else { $word = 'z ' . $word; } break; case 'lokatiw': # lokatiw if ( $word == 'Wikipedija' ) { $word = 'Wikipediji'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikiknihi' ) { $word = 'Wikiknihach'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikinowiny' ) { $word = 'Wikinowinach'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikižórło' ) { $word = 'Wikižórłu'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikicitaty' ) { $word = 'Wikicitatach'; } elseif ( $word == 'Wikisłownik' ) { $word = 'Wikisłowniku'; } else { $word = 'wo ' . $word; } break; } return $word; # this will return the original value for 'nominatiw' (nominativ) and all undefined case values }
I don't know why it was deleted in LanguageHsb.php. And AFAIK Czech had such a switch command in its languageCs.php as well.
Regards, michawiki
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Michael Wolf milupo@sorbzilla.de wrote:
It was a switch command for the grammatical cases of all wiki projects - here for Upper Sorbian:
We do not have anything to do with that, it's on betawiki. :-) But, about that, we tried to use {{grammar:accusitive|{{SITENAME}}}}, but it didn't seem to work in the notices.
Casey Brown napisa:
We do not have anything to do with that, it's on betawiki. :-) But, about that, we tried to use {{grammar:accusitive|{{SITENAME}}}}, but it didn't seem to work in the notices.
Hi Casey,
It must be "accus*a*tive", not accus*i*tive. But in Wikipedia we use the Sorbian names of the cases:
nominatiw, genitiw, datiw, akuzatiw, instrumental, lokatiw
and the template name is written completely in upper case: GRAMMAR (like PLURAL as well) but I don't know if this is relevant. Well, zour example should look:
{{GRAMMAR:akuzatiw|{{SITENAME}}}}
But you should consider that in Slavic languages accusative often equals to nominative if a noun denotes inanimate entities, thus things. With persons or animals the accusative has the form of genitive. This rule is valid for masculine and neutral nouns, not for feminine nouns. Well, don't use Wiktionary as an example (because the Sorbian form is Wikisłownik. Here accusative = nominative. Use e.g. Wikipedija or Wikimedija, then the accusative will be Wikipediju resp. Wikimediju and you will see that the template works (I hope so, :-))
Regards, michawiki
They were not deleted, they were moved to a more appropriate location. They are now in the extension WikimediaMessages, where they can be updated without requiring a shell admin, and only be used by Wikimedia, and they are no longer in the standard MediaWiki product where Wikimedia specific configuration does not belong.
Cheers! Siebrand
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: translators-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:translators-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] Namens Michael Wolf Verzonden: dinsdag 11 november 2008 19:14 Aan: Wikimedia Translators Onderwerp: Re: [Translators-l] [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices
Aphaia napisa:
For central notice, unless I misunderstand, it can be set both for multiple wikis (e.g. for all projects of a certain language) and for a single wiki (e.g. for Czeck Wikinews). If it is much easier, it would be an idea to set up single notice for each Czeck projects ... anyway there are only up to nine projects.
Hello,
I remember there was in LanguageXx(x).php a grammar rule for the project names. But they are deleted now. Why?
It was a switch command for the grammatical cases of all wiki projects - here for Upper Sorbian:
[snip]
I don't know why it was deleted in LanguageHsb.php. And AFAIK Czech had such a switch command in its languageCs.php as well.
Regards, michawiki
Siebrand Mazeland napisa:
They were not deleted, they were moved to a more appropriate location. They are now in the
extension WikimediaMessages, where they can be updated without requiring a shell admin,
and only be used by Wikimedia, and they are no longer in the standard MediaWiki product where
Wikimedia specific configuration does not belong.
Hi Siebrand,
yes I've found the file WikimediaGrammarForms.php:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/WikimediaMessages...
But I saw that there are no grammar rules for the Wikimedia project, in all languages. And for Lower Sorbian (dsb) are used the Upper Sorbian forms. I shall write the Lower Sorbian forms tomorrow, today (eh, today is already tomorrow :-)) it's too late. Or to early in the morning? :-)
Regards, michawiki
Hi Micha.
Grammar forms[1] are, and always have been, based on the content language, and not on a user's interface language[2]. I must admit that the documentation is not that clear...
Cheers! Siebrand
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgGrammarForms [2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgLanguageCode
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: translators-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:translators-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] Namens Michael Wolf Verzonden: woensdag 12 november 2008 0:28 Aan: Wikimedia Translators Onderwerp: Re: [Translators-l] [Fundraising 2008] CentralNotices
[..]
But I saw that there are no grammar rules for the Wikimedia project, in all languages. And for Lower Sorbian (dsb) are used the Upper Sorbian forms. I shall write the Lower Sorbian forms tomorrow, today (eh, today is already tomorrow :-)) it's too late. Or to early in the morning? :-)
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Petr Kadlec petr.kadlec@gmail.com wrote:
In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am afraid.
Same issue with the Portuguese language. "Wikipedia", "Wikinotícias" (Wikinews) and "Wikiversidade" (Wikiversity) are feminine singular. "Wikcionário" (Wiktionary), "Wikilivros" (Wikibooks), "Wikiquote", "Wikisource" and "Wikimedia Commons" masculine singular.
I think you can use a switch for the different projects in the template, see for example this Hungarian page: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Centralnotice-2008_nometer_2-donate...
and the switch function inside it: {{#switch:{{lc:{{SITENAME}}}} |wikiszótár=Wikiszótárra |wikipédia=Wikipédiára |wikihírek=Wikihírekre |wikidézet=Wikidézetekre|wikikönyvek=Wikikönyvekre |wikiforrás=Wikiforrásra |Wikimédiára}}
On the left side of the =-signs is the name of the project in your language with small initial letters, while on the right side is the text that should be shown in the given project. (This might seem complicated, but it isn't that difficult; setting up separate notices for the different languages and then maintaining them when the banner changes might be much more complicated IMHO).
Best, Regards
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Luiz Augusto lugusto@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Petr Kadlec petr.kadlec@gmail.comwrote:
In Czech (cs), you need to take into account the grammatical gender and number of the names. While "Wikipedie" (Wikipedia) is feminine singular, "Wikislovník" (Wiktionary) is masculine singular, Wikinews is plural, etc. But, since all projects share the same central notice template, and differ only in the language, it is not that easy, I am afraid.
Same issue with the Portuguese language. "Wikipedia", "Wikinotícias" (Wikinews) and "Wikiversidade" (Wikiversity) are feminine singular. "Wikcionário" (Wiktionary), "Wikilivros" (Wikibooks), "Wikiquote", "Wikisource" and "Wikimedia Commons" masculine singular.
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