Thank you both for the encouragement. As for the tree, Pradeep, the idea is excellent. It could be used in a Botanical Garden like Lalbagh, scan the tree indeed. And yes, there is no tree higher than the Metro. -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

Pradeep's lament is an unrecognised truth of GLAM. The feeling is everywhere. The problem is that we do not realise that unless one is already an afficianado, bare objects (whether they are trees in a garden or objects in a museum) are "dumb" to a person. We need human intervention, a story-teller, a person who brings these objects to life, who tells us how they affect us, our interests and our situation in life. So whether it is a trip by the nature-club to our campus wetlands, or visitors coming to the museum I curate, I see my role as an "interpreter". This is a concept not widely known but developed by the American National Parks Service in the fifties. An object as inherently interesting as a [[katana]] is there on the stand in our museum, within reach but dumb - an amber coloured handle with brown leather encompassing its blade, reposing unobtrusively on its stand. By itself it only says here is a sword. If I were not there,the visitor moves on unperturbed, to be forgotten when they view the next object, and so on in its turn. But when I encourage the visitor to reach out, unsheath it, the sword begins to come alive to them as a potent weapon of war. Their interest is aroused. Now is the time to highlight the sword as an object of technical excellence. The description of the exquisite unmatched sword-making technique of the Japanese which made it one of the finest swords in existence, fuels their appetite. I tell them of the sharpness of the edge (it is now safe and blunt) - so sharp, it can slice apart a silk handkerchief drifting down onto it. They see the brilliant surface, now parti-rusted and ask them to hold it in the position horizontal at face level, where they can see the enemy behind. They understand that the sword is hard, sharp and tough, all at once, and it can slice a man in half from head to groin. The sword comes into context when I tell them it was carried by an officer of the Empire of Japan in World War II. He would have been a proud samurai warrior - the head of the family the sword belonged to and the sword itself handed from generation to generation to the eldest or senior-most in succession. He would have come to Burma in World War II in 1941 as part of an invading army from which the British and Indians fled. The Japanese were merciless to their captives - they themselves preferred death to dishonour or surrender. They tortured their prisoners and bayonetted them for pleasure or training. This sword itself may have beheaded many a hapless prisoner. The Indian Army's counter-offensive in 1944-45 was merciless and crushing. Less than 100 of the 5 lakh Japanese who invaded Burma returned to Japan. The sword was picked up off the body of the officer by a JCO who attempted to appropriate the sword for himself. It was confiscated by the company commander Maj RM Rau and presented to the Museum. For the Japanese family, the loss of the heirloom was as great as a disaster as the loss of its wielder. The family sword alongwith the samurai armour was as much part of the family shrine as the Buddha statue. Its loss in an alien land was a catastrophe. The sword was thus a symbol of tragedy - to its former owners and the luckless who were its victims. It is also a metaphor for how a value-neutral technology is misused for man's warlike purposes. After such an encounter with a museum object where the uniqueness, marvellousness, history and symbolism are all brought out to the visitor, the sword is imprinted in the visitor's mind. Years after they have visited my museum, they have told me how they remembered the samurai sword that I showed them. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohandas(a)gmail.comwrote: feels when one visits a botanical garden. wrote: Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

I'm starting a monthly update on India Program activities. The report for February is posted here. I hope you find it useful. Please do add comments on the discussion page, or on this mail trail, or offlist to me. Many thanks. hisham

On Mar 7, 2012, at 12:12 PM, <wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com> <wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com> wrote: Nothing is conducted solely by India Program - and hence I said "supported." Everything is conducted by the community - sometimes under the aegis of the Chapter and sometimes independently. The support that we have provided varies - from getting the actual event fixed up to providing presentation material to interested community members to participating in these events. hisham

hi, I think that although the chapter and community are volunteer based, the chapter has more legal sanctity and is answerable as an organisation against as a person being held responsible. Hence, it is important that even the chapter and the community be seperated. As an action taken by a member stating that he's taking on behalf of a chapter, makes the Chapter answerable. I think it is necessary to seperate the chapter and community as well. In retrospect, I also understand the need for seperating the Foundation activities as well. I think it is best to either go for total seperation of community, chapter and Office or have general statements. This also makes it necessary for people who hold multiple positions within Chapter and Office to define their actions even more concretely since we're now speaking in terms of transparency and accountability. warm regards, Pradeep -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9

On Mar 7, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Anirudh Bhati wrote: Who is we? hisham

On Wednesday 07 March 2012 01:38 PM, Pradeep Mohandas wrote: This makes a lot of sense. It's useful to understand exactly what people acting on behalf of the Foundation, the chapter, or themselves (the community) are doing; it's also very useful to understand exactly how they are working with others. To have a record of this (admittedly complex) cooperation will be very valuable in understanding how things actually work.

Hi, Let me take the focus of discussions back to the report/s where it all started. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Hisham <hisham(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: I was going through the report and also saw another page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Program/Outreach_Programs/Outreach_Se… that gives listing of outreach sessions by IP. Another page by chapter also shows outreach reports. It is on the main page of wiki. IP and Chapter are having more or less similar functions. They do similar outreach efforts and have same people in some functions. Somehow, the reports from IP as well has chapter has about 9 entries each for outreach program and only 2 are common !! One of them is the now famous NITT academy and the other one is GNUnify. I was surprised to see only the English academy entry in GNUnify that was conducted by Ashwin and helped by IEP volunteers. The Marathi academy conducted at the same lab immediately after the lunch break is not mentioned at all. Also surprising was the entry where Moksh was involved. Possibly, it was supported by some IP person. General observation is that the report from IP shows the listing where only the IP, IEP people were involved and the chapter report mentions otherwise. This clearly means that there is a disconnect. I dont see any of the IEP/IP people joining the Pune community activities (except a few). In fact, one of the outreach session (mentioned in the report) by the IEP was not even mentioned on any of the lists. Possibly, there is some polarisation somewhere and personally I feel that it could be in favour of IP; simply because volunteers become paid activists there. Lets take a very much possible theoretical case(like the NITT, where volunteers had bad experiences) where a volunteer goes for conducting an academy and is not treated well and has bad facilities of lodging/boarding/travel etc. And for the same academy, a person from IP is also going and flies to/from the place and lives in a nice hotel. In such case, where and how to compare the voluntary work v/s paid staff work? The volunteer has spent his time and resouces for hardly anything but the staff is being paid for the same activity as part of the job. Ashwin has hinted about evaluating voluntary efforts. Is there any method to do it? Community members are same for both- chapter as well as IP. However, chapter is answerable to the community even when all the community members are not necessarily chapter members. (just a technical point. not to be emphasised), Whereas IP may not have any binding on anything and still get all kind of funds from WMF. And also hire people from the community for doing the same work people were earlier doing voluntarily. Also remember that chapter and the community members do their work voluntarily and not get paid for it. Well, just to clarify, I am not saying that community members, IP staff and IEP volunteers are not doing work. They are really doing fantastic work and that must to be appreciated. However, all those efforts/work has to be taken in various perspectives mentioned in this thread. Best regards -Sudhanwa ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! web: www.sudhanwa.com  blog: www.sudhanwa.in Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more.

I would like to add here that Nitika's & Subashish's presentation was a great one for me to customise with my slides. I strongly recommend that rather than recreate the wheel their presentation be used by all those planning English language outreach. One of the things IP has done right. Now I request that IP should complete the suite of presentation materials required for outreach. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Ashwin Baindur <ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

Sudhanwa, I think the NITT event is more infamous than famous. : ) [Whatever the case be, I'm still at the receiving end of 17 odd people and have been nicknamed the Master of Disaster]. I'd not like to talk about my stay and trip. Simply speaking, Saagar, was helpful, he arranged as per what I told him. I saw the guest house rooms that were meant to be for us, Me in particular, and I'm thankful that I was in the Garnet hostel at NITT. I went to Trichy as a volunteer, because Wikipedia is something I like. Editing, uploading, doing all this [considered crazy or time wasting by my friends], is something I enjoy, and am deeply passionate about. This was the sole reason I went to Trichy, [at my expense, There is some ambiguity, there too, I was told that the Chapter would reminburse my travel amount, later was told that since I'm not a member, it wouldn't be possible, whatever be the case, I don't care, I still had fun]. Tinu, Entirely agreed, the Indian community on En is more welcoming towards New users. I was 'requested' not to edit the Hindi wikipedia because my Mother tongue is Tamil. Shiju, you are a very respected senior member of the community. I've personally looked up to you as a guru of sorts ever since we met at Tinu's House [WP:MBL3/05-07-2009]. It is however, unfair of you tto say this: *Let me ask you a basic question. Are you with wikimedia movement for helping it or for screwing it up. I was going through the replies and your wiki contributions over the past few months. What is your intention in being with Wikimedia movement in India.* As an editor on En.wikipedia, I feel this statement is wrong, Anirudh is a very very dignified editor. His level of English is something which so many of us look up to. One must also not forget that he is a founding member of the Chapter. We all know the amount of hard work, effort and toiling that went into the Chapters formation and founding. Do remember people, what WE do is important. Not who does what. Wikipedia isn't about getting credit, but contributing. As Anirudh [again] told me once, editing Wikipedia is considered Social Service by many of us. Regarding the WMF India team, I personally feel that there is a disconnect/distance between them and us, the community. Subha and I have been in touch, as we've been friends for close to a year, and hence we're edit buddies to a certain level. Shiju, I have been out of touch for a while, but earlier, I used to be in connect with him. He's helped me out in many of my Translation sprees, and I hope he can help me out soon. Nitika, and I have been regularly in touch since December. She has provided me with support in various methods, for our Coimbatore meetups, my QR Pedia ideas, the NITT issue and much much more. I sincerely hope that she continues to help the community out. Hisham, I have been unable to reach out to you, thru the list, email, phone, Facebook, Wikipedia, whatever be the medium. I believe you should be more accessible to EVERYONE [including irritating kids like me], and should be more active onWiki. Regards,

Tinu, Someone from the Chapter, [I DO NOT want to name him] told me so. I do not want to take the matter furtheer because I travelled at my expense. I am NOT claiming it from the Chapter. Good Day, Cheerio. -- On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 4:01 PM, CherianTinu Abraham <tinucherian(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

Thanks Srikanth for the clarification. <chapter hat> The India Chapter is here to serve the community. It makes no distinction between chapter or (other) community members in these efforts. AFAIK, Naveen had told RSrikanth that his travel expenses ( related to NITT) will be reimbursed by the chapter ( Before his travel & after). There was no reason why he had a different thought. If any chapter member has told you differently, it is his personal view and not the chapter's . Everyone is free to join the chapter as member or not. But regardless of whether you are a member or not, we will support you in your Wikimedia activities in the best efforts we can and the limited resources we have. </chapter hat> <personal cap> I think this thread has gone too far with unnecessary & off-topic discussions, personal attacks .. While I stand by my personal views expressed in this thread, the tone used by me wasn't the best of me. I think I got a bit carried by the emotions and heat in this discussion. Please understand that there was nothing personal, but I was just standing up for the values and philosophies that I personally believe in. If I have unknowingly & unintentionally hurt anyone through my words, I express my deepest apologies.. <personal cap> Enjoy your weekend. For those in Bangalore, Don't forget to come for the monthly meetup tomorrow. :) -TC On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:20 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

hmmm. /me wrong. I was not present on that day and the names that I heard were all from IEP. -Sudhanwa On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Ashwin Baindur &lt;ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! web: www.sudhanwa.com  blog: www.sudhanwa.in Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more.

Hi Sudhanwa, FYI, a report was sent by Wasim to this mailing list on the 6th of Feb.[1]. [1]. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2012-February/006810.… Regards, Pratik Lahoti. On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:05 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar &lt;sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

hi, You should contribute to Wikipedia and sister projects. You can contribute to any activity that you like in the community, chapter or office. Pradeep Handheld On 08/03/2012, Mandar Kulkarni &lt;mvkulkarni23(a)yahoo.co.uk&gt; wrote: -- How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9

This is another branding going on to side line wikipedia editors. Remember once a person start editing in Wikipedia they are wikipedians. But here we are branding and sidelining them to prove our POV. I have seen members (both in this list and in other lists) using the words outsiders, non-xyz language speakers, non-xyz city people to sideline few community members (especially if they are newcomers). See now I am side lined as an *ex-volunteer* so that the interested parties can prove their POV. For me that is not an issue since my wiki contributions are not depending on these branding and I will continue my volunteer contribution. The community atmosphere in Indic wikis is entirely different especially when it comes towards treatment towards new users. But when new members joining wiki if they are branded and sidelined how will community grow for any language. From my experience with Malayalam wikipedia, I must say Indic wiki communities perform better in this aspect. When a user start editing in wiki, we must value their wiki contributions, not by their association or non-association with any organization/groups/individuals. Shiju (Again this mail is sent as a current volunteer of Malayalam wiki projects) On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:05 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar &lt;sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Shiju Alex &lt;shijualexonline(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: No one is "branding" or "sidelining" editors. Don't you call yourself a Malayali Wikipedian? Similarly there are Wikipedians from Pune, Calcutta, Ahmedabad and Bangalore. These are various classifications, and they are in no way derogatory. Classic straw man. No one's sidelining you or anyone else. You are welcome to feel sidelined, but do not falsely accuse others of doing that to anyone. Contributors are only judged by their work on our projects and new contributors will always find themselves welcomed by other users. I find it incredibly disappointing that you are continuing to take this line of argument after your objectionable comments yesterday. The English Wikipedia is far more complex than the Indic language projects and has its own strengths and weaknesses, and that in no way means that new contributors are not welcome - we just expect basic [[WP:COMPETENCE]] from new users and a willingness to understand how the system works (not that this was relevant to the OT). Hisham is yet to respond to some of the issues raised above, and I wonder if any satisfactory answers are on their way. Most of the important matters just seem to get buried on the list after a bunch of misconceived accusations (which likely stem from lack of awareness than malice), meta-arguments and nit-picking. _______________________________________________

On 7 March 2012 13:11, Anirudh Bhati &lt;anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I am still a volunteer when it comes to anything which involves my participation as a community member, involvement with the WMF doesn't stop being a volunteer :) -- Subha

I am replying to this mail as a *Malayalam wikimedia community member*. Fact: Subhashish, *former volunteer*, and now paid consultant with India What do you mean by this? I Shiju Alex is a Indic language wikipedian now close to 6 years. According to Mr. Anirudh (an EC member of India chapter) I am a former volunteer. is this is the official position of wikimedia India chapter? As a community member I require an explanation for this. Shiju Alex (An Indic language wikipedian) On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Anirudh Bhati &lt;anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Hisham &lt;hisham(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: > >> >> Nothing is conducted solely by India Program - and hence I said >> "supported." Everything is conducted by the community - sometimes under >> the aegis of the Chapter and sometimes independently. The support that we >> have provided varies - from getting the actual event fixed up to providing >> presentation material to interested community members to participating in >> these events. >> > > Can this be clearly specified in the report? That is more helpful than > simply "supported". For instance, when you say "Supported the community > to get a venue in Guwahati University", it would help us understand more if > you could tell us how. > > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:45 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < > tinucherian(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > Hi Pranav, >> In India, it is extremely difficult to hairline separate who has done >> which event. - Chapter, Community and WMF India Programs. >> > > I agree it's not possible to do that, but it is entirely possible to list > out the work done in specific. This enhances our accountability and > transparency towards the community. > > >> Let us take the case of the Trichy event, the request came to a community >> member Rsrikanth to the chapter. Nitika was actively involved along with me >> and Naveen. The chapter signed the MoU and supplied some goodies. Nitika >> was actively involved in coaching Sohan, a chapter member and Rsrikanth. >> One must not also forget that both Hisham & Nitika are also chapter >> members. > > > Fact: Nitika is a paid employee of the WMF India Programs and is not a > chapter/community volunteer. > > >> >> Another event in Chennai (Jaya eng college) , where Subha led, his travel >> expenses was reimbursed by the Chapter, Subha is a Chapter SIG Chair .. The >> event is supported by Hisham & Nitika too. Subha is also an India Programs >> executive. >> > > Fact: Subhashish, former volunteer, and now paid consultant with India > >> >> I actively organize Bangalore Meetups and support several others .. >> Should I be worrying whether I am doing as a chapter member, board member >> or a community member? >> > > By a matter of principle, chapter and community volunteers are just... > volunteers. Paid consultants are hired to executive specific programs, and > hence the results of their work and reports should be presented with > clarity. Simply "supporting" something does not clarify the extent of > their involvement. > > >> As with Assam meetup recently, coordinated by Shiju, some of the expenses >> were met from a personal grant from the Foundation to me & Shiju. >> >> There was a recent Malayalam Wiki Academy in Bangalore organised by >> Malayalam Community. Some of them are also Chapter members. People like me >> and Naveen actively helped the event ..Are we doing as chapter board member >> or community member? We don't really know.. But we are just genuinely >> helping the movement, with worrying about what capacity we are doing it. >> > > I don't think it's a good idea to separate the chapter and the community. > The chapter is a membership-based organization and by definition an > umbrella organization which represents the community. There is no reason > for differentiation as long as it is volunteer work done by a chapter > member. > > >> >> The various academies that we do, some of the requests comes directly to >> the chapter, community or India programs, but each supporting each other in >> different capacities. >> >> Now Noopur is a GLAM Champion, Chapter member and Delhi SIG Chair and >> also part of Chapter Communications Team. She now also heads the >> Communication & PR for the India Programs. >> >> As I explained, it is difficult to separate the contributions of >> different entities or individuals for the Wikimedia movement in India. >> >> IMHO, we should be only concerned about the outcomes of the event and not >> who gets the credit. >> > > Even though the possibility of interfacing each other is high for > different entities and groups of volunteers working in India, there is a > need for differentiation and it is a question which cannot be avoided. The > volunteers who work on their pet-projects while not being associated with > any of the entities are not expected to be as accountable as (i) the > chapter which receives or may receive grants from the Wikimedia Foundation > and donations from individuals and organizations in the country AND (ii) > the WMF India Programs which is run by multiple paid consultants. > > So I don't see why we shouldn't care about differentiation, or why it may > be an undesirable thing to want to differentiate. Ultimately we all want > results, yes, but we also need to understand causality because there are > significant amount of funds involved. We need to differentiate because > there are different degrees of accountability involved both with the > chapter, the WMF India Programs and the volunteer who works with a grant. > > Hope this helps. > > _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > >

Heya, Personally, I feel that the work done by the Chapter and IP need to segregated, solely for the purpose of accountability. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Anirudh Bhati &lt;anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

Shiju, I request you to calm down first. Please do NOT take anything as a personal attack. -- On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:39 AM, Shiju Alex &lt;shijualexonline(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

Hi Shiju On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Shiju Alex &lt;shijualexonline(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: Let me first explain what he was trying to refer to. He called you a volunteer, from the Latin word voluntarius[1], meaning voluntary or willing. The noun form [2] describes it as - 1.One who enters into, or offers for, any service<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/service> of his/her own free will, especially when done without pay. I'm not sure what you are reacting to. It is a simple distinction between paid and non-paid effort. You were a community member, you still are, and you shall remain one until you choose to leave it. You are however, currently a paid employee, there is a very clear distinction between volunteers and staff. I assure you it exists on en.wp and outside India when the senior staff interact and talk about other community members, they always use the word "volunteers" as opposed to "staff". You can check with this in several hundred of Sue and Barry's email if you like. The distinction is paid vs. non-paid, nothing more. This extends to community members and beyond. There is no reason to be angry over this, it's just terminology and possibly a misunderstanding. No one should be asking that question to another community member. I can ask you that, you can ask me, it is all a matter of perspective. We are only accountable to ourselves, and what we choose to do or say. I would ask you to please calm down and don't take this as an offense. It's probably just a misunderstanding with terminology that is usually applied in these situations. Regards Theo [1]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/voluntarius#Latin [2]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/volunteer

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Shiju Alex &lt;shijualexonline(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: Doesn't sound all that good, does it? Coming from *Shiju*, it does spring a bit of surprise. Is this the ramification of volunteer turning into a Wikimedia employee or contractor? I feel that this personal attack was unwarranted, does not serve any good purpose, and is rude. An apology is due, counting that people employed by the 'India program trust' hold truly responsible posts. The question about 'who's done what? or who's doing what?' is very important in the present scenario as the Wikimedia India Programs trust is well funded, has full time phenomenally well paid operatives who's primary focus is supposed to '*Support the community to further Movement objectives*'. Being rude or evading detailed reports isn't helping this in any way. And just saying "we supported" isn't going to help either. Explaining the trust's role in each of the listed activities would surely help people from this country when they're planning to donate during the next fundraiser as well. When we get to see announcements doled out to multiple mailing lists like spam, I don't see why detailed reports should be an hindrance? I had personally brought up the concerns about the 'India Program Trust' in an email to foundation-l way back in November: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-November/070419.html and it is deeply saddening there wasn't even a response to that by Hisham or his team. Is this how the community is being dealt with? -- Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig

Thanks, Tinu. I generally agree with you. Except that I never tried to tell anyone about what they ought to be doing as a volunteer and what not. There is a simple distinction between staff/consultants and volunteers as is evident from conventional usage across the Wikimedia universe. The only reference I made was to paid work done under the purview of contractual assignment with the Foundation, anything outside done in individual capacity and outside of working hours is still that of a volunteer. Also, as long as I am not signing off with my official credentials at the end of the email, I am only expressing personal opinion. For instance, I wouldn't claim that Shiju's indisposition towards me is the official stance of his employer. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM, CherianTinu Abraham &lt;tinucherian(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM, CherianTinu Abraham &lt;tinucherian(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: I'm not sure what you are talking about above. The issue with Siebrand is a conflict of interest, as far as I know, they should/would have declared it to their members. Laws in several countries dictate that board of non-profit can not be paid employees of their own or parent organizations. Several chapter board members usually resign to take up employee position. It used to be that they had to resign to take up any position as staff, but contractor is a relatively new feature with confusing legality, but there are still individuals who see the distinction and resign or declare their conflicts upfront. Board members by definition can not be paid employees, this is not my distinction but a legal one. Something I believe all WIkimedia organizations should adhere to. I believe Ashwin explained it much better than I could. If we can demarcate what role someone does something as, it would help a lot. The community staff at WMF usually keep 2 accounts to demarcate this clearly, on wiki. It might not be "practically separate whether we does something as a volunteer...." the distinction is actually quite simple. One that en.wp, staff and majority of the community holds- paid vs. non-paid. What one does as an employee is separate from what one does as an employee. That is why they have two accounts and rather large disclaimers on their user pages, demarcating this very difference. Regards Theo P.S. @achal lol

Tinu, On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:14 PM, CherianTinu Abraham &lt;tinucherian(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: The Wikimedia Foundation licenses the use of its trademark to independent and autonomous chapters around the world. This may constitute a principle-agent relationship EVEN in the absence of a formal quid pro quo. In an ideal world, I would support structures that are as efficient as possible. But in the real world, we have to consider many variables (many of which may be unsuitable for public discourse) that may have affect organizations working in a less-than-ideal legal environment. The associated legal risks have a direct bearing on the office-bearers of the institutions. I would urge that the discussion around legalities be discontinued from now on, but focus rather on the propriety of holding multiple positions of functionaries within two organizations using the same trademark.

hi, To set us back a bit, the discussion was originally centered on volunteer-staff relationship. Pradeep Handheld On 07/03/2012, Anirudh Bhati &lt;anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9

Errm Theo, Do remember that the India TRUST is DIFFERENT form the Chapter. It is from the WMF side and has absolutely NO relation with the Chapter. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Theo10011 &lt;de10011(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:38 PM, CherianTinu Abraham &lt;tinucherian(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: Err... I have no idea who or what implied that. I don't think anyone said anything to that effect so far. Just said volunteer and staff work is separate, not that it goes away or one negates the other. I completely agreed with Ashwin on the need for better demarcation. Here's some example- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Theo_(WMF) - my old contractor account- read the disclaimer http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3ATheo10011&diff=21651… - my volunteer account at the time- read the disclaimer/announcement Shijus's staff account -http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Shiju and volunteer account - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Shijualex Subha's staff account http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Subha_WMF and volunteer accoun t- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Psubhashish They all have disclaimers, and explanation that this work is separate from staff work. It's a pretty clean and simple staff policy, that I have discussed with Philippe in the past. This might be harder to do in offline work, but there should be some attempt at demarcation like on-wiki. Their volunteer work and standing will never go away, no one remotely suggested that. Just that, like on-wiki, there should be better communication about which is which, nothing more. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: lol I know Srikanth. My question was about its current legal status. Is it independent? different or same as the chapter? Regards Theo

Theo, *" Err... I have no idea who or what implied that. "* I am referring to your previous full time and paid work for the Wikimedia Foundation 2010-2011 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_contractors#Individuals * " I don't think anyone said anything to that effect so far. "* Look at the similar comments from Anirudh on this thread related to people like Shiju and Subhashish. As I have clearly explained earlier, such a segregation is only possible in virtual user accounts, not in real world action. If you want know, come do the donkey work ! -TC On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Theo10011 &lt;de10011(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

* *Dear Anirudh,* "**Also, as long as I am not signing off with my official credentials at the end of the email, I am only expressing personal opinion. "* *"We will discuss overlapping roles and notify the community about our decision."* *"I referred to "we" as in the Executive Committee of the WMIN. Please note that I did not express an opinion on the behalf of the EC, I simply said that this will be discussed." * If you are expressing your view as a Chapter Board Member, please state so. ( The rest cannot differentiate when you are replying from your personal id). I wish you had stated instead "I will discuss this with the rest of the EC or Chapter members". Having said that, the chapter doesn't impose our decision on the community or the India Programs, Although I personally see Chapter as a subset of the larger community. Regards Tinu Cherian On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Anirudh Bhati &lt;anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

*57 mails to define the effort, for me be it voluntary/paid, effort for a good cause is priceless, and the precious time everyone wasted could have been utilized (not to be considered as a free gyan!) for something constructive rather than this defensing act which will result just nothing, the only thing I enjoyed is Achal's assessment! *The subject says "Community monthly report"; it's not a place to define who has taken the initiative and what is the exact percentage of support foundation/chapter has provided to the community, it's rather a brief note of what has happened in the community engagement activities, foundation/chapter obviously has supported it. But, it's important to access the outcome than to measure how much support in which way was provided by foundation/chapter. On 7 March 2012 18:18, Tinu Cherian &lt;tinucherian(a)wikimedia.in&gt; wrote:

Tinu, respectfully, your argument for inability to segregate roles does not hold water. In the mean, cold harsh world of legalese, things like demarcation of roles, disclosures, incompatibility of holding conflicting appointments, having code of ethics are all normal and these instruments in fact are found inadequate and there is now clamour for more oversight not less. We have to have a code of ethics for the WMF employee - they must remain true to their salt to the organisation which pays them. While it is nice that good people like Shiju are always as helpful as they were as community volunteers, the simple fact is that there has been a change of role. We see them as paid employees which is a fact. We do not mean that as a derogatory term but that is what they chose to be - paid. So volunteer activities must only be done in a way that does not conflict with their employer. There is a great obligation for them to do this. They cannot and should not act as community because it means the setting up of COI with their employer. They owe it to their employer. They cannot hunt with the hare and run with the hounds all at once. The chapter has volunteer teams - like communication etc. I'm sure it is okay and desirable for Noopur, Shiju etc to be part of them and assuming good faith, I'm sure they are not intending any wrong thing. But COI can easily arise if one is not painstakingly correct and careful. For that reason, I suggest that the WMF employees on any team be demarcated as WMF-IP representatives - so that there is a clear-cut understanding of who is a volunteer and who is not and those who are not volunteers are expected to be suitably circumspect in their participation when policy is sought to formed by discussion in the community - that is the price they have to pay for choosing a paid job from WMF. The way I see it, some people say Chapter is independent from WMF but that can only happen if their funding is independent. Whoever pays the piper chooses the tune. WMF is gracious not to interfere much with Chapter, I assume they are not interfering at all, but that is because of their goodness or choice. Should WMF become dictatorial, Chapter has to kowtow or face the consequences. So like it or not, chapter/WMF are related organisations which are in the same field with objectives of their own. COI will arise, you cant prevent it, only resolve it in good ways by having good policy, good communication and sensible interaction. We have enough "turbulence" in the system already. Questions like cost effectiveness of WMF driven activities as compared to that of volunteer led activities are taken as personal attacks by one side and as righteous crusades by the other. IEP 2 will soon be open us - heaven forbid! The Global South program is just gaining momentum and the amount of attention, money, effort being put into India programs is going to increase not reduce. The coming about of the Trust is going to complicate issues - I cant even think how to handle that time-bomb! At the same time, the demand is growing; more editors are volunteering. Each Wikipedia is inflating, some explosively, others with bits and spurts,some are sill-born. In such a backdrop, more prudence and probity are the need of the hour. More transparency, not more laissez faire. More care, not more "chalta hai". We have to make it our business to be above board in whatever we do. Imho COI is by far the easiest to solve - there are greater challenges out there for us to tackle - things which really matter, like the hundreds of thousands of school children waiting for Offline Wikipedia for Indian Schools! Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:38 PM, CherianTinu Abraham &lt;tinucherian(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

Right on, Pradeep! Hence my detailed views on my own responsibility as WikiProject India lead. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Pradeep Mohandas &lt;pradeep.mohandas(a)gmail.com > hi, > > I also think a similar demarcation is needed in chapter and community > functions. Chapter leadership should also not be imposed on the > community. I am not saying this is happening, just that such > demarcation will help. > > I hope the Chapter discusses this overlap as well. > > Pradeep > Handheld > > On 07/03/2012, Ashwin Baindur &lt;ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com> > Tinu, respectfully, your argument for inability to segregate roles does > not > > hold water. > > > > In the mean, cold harsh world of legalese, things like demarcation of > > roles, disclosures, incompatibility of holding conflicting appointments, > > having code of ethics are all normal and these instruments in fact are > > found inadequate and there is now clamour for more oversight not less. > > > > We have to have a code of ethics for the WMF employee - they must remain > > true to their salt to the organisation which pays them. While it is nice > > that good people like Shiju are always as helpful as they were as > community > > volunteers, the simple fact is that there has been a change of role. We > see > > them as paid employees which is a fact. We do not mean that as a > derogatory > > term but that is what they chose to be - paid. So volunteer activities > must > > only be done in a way that does not conflict with their employer. There > is > > a great obligation for them to do this. They cannot and should not act as > > community because it means the setting up of COI with their employer. > They > > owe it to their employer. They cannot hunt with the hare and run with the > > hounds all at once. > > > > The chapter has volunteer teams - like communication etc. I'm sure it is > > okay and desirable for Noopur, Shiju etc to be part of them and assuming > > good faith, I'm sure they are not intending any wrong thing. But COI can > > easily arise if one is not painstakingly correct and careful. For that > > reason, I suggest that the WMF employees on any team be demarcated as > > WMF-IP representatives - so that there is a clear-cut understanding of > who > > is a volunteer and who is not and those who are not volunteers are > expected > > to be suitably circumspect in their participation when policy is sought > to > > formed by discussion in the community - that is the price they have to > pay > > for choosing a paid job from WMF. > > > > The way I see it, some people say Chapter is independent from WMF but > that > > can only happen if their funding is independent. Whoever pays the piper > > chooses the tune. WMF is gracious not to interfere much with Chapter, I > > assume they are not interfering at all, but that is because of their > > goodness or choice. Should WMF become dictatorial, Chapter has to kowtow > or > > face the consequences. So like it or not, chapter/WMF are related > > organisations which are in the same field with objectives of their own. > COI > > will arise, you cant prevent it, only resolve it in good ways by having > > good policy, good communication and sensible interaction. > > > > We have enough "turbulence" in the system already. Questions like cost > > effectiveness of WMF driven activities as compared to that of volunteer > led > > activities are taken as personal attacks by one side and as righteous > > crusades by the other. IEP 2 will soon be open us - heaven forbid! The > > Global South program is just gaining momentum and the amount of > attention, > > money, effort being put into India programs is going to increase not > > reduce. The coming about of the Trust is going to complicate issues - I > > cant even think how to handle that time-bomb! At the same time, the > demand > > is growing; more editors are volunteering. Each Wikipedia is inflating, > > some explosively, others with bits and spurts,some are sill-born. > > > > In such a backdrop, more prudence and probity are the need of the hour. > > More transparency, not more laissez faire. More care, not more "chalta > hai". > > > > We have to make it our business to be above board in whatever we do. Imho > > COI is by far the easiest to solve - there are greater challenges out > there > > for us to tackle - things which really matter, like the hundreds of > > thousands of school children waiting for Offline Wikipedia for Indian > > Schools! > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Ashwin Baindur > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:38 PM, CherianTinu Abraham > > &lt;tinucherian(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: > > > >> And to add > >> > >> "That is why they have two accounts and rather large disclaimers on > their > >> user pages, demarcating this very difference". > >> > >> This is only possible in virtual worlds, while editing Wikipedia or > >> writing mails. Not in real life work ! > >> > >> I cannot have one face or voice when I am acting as board member of the > >> chapter and another when I am helping the community. Many of us, live > and > >> breathe Wikimedia, making it difficult to separate on which capacity > each > >> of our action is. > >> > >> You are a long time community member, you were working as Wikimedia > >> Foundation paid contractor for some time, does that mean all the > volunteer > >> work you would have done before/after or during being a full time and > paid > >> staff of Foundation cease to have any value ? > >> > >> -TC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:14 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < > tinucherian(a)gmail.com > >> > >> > >>> If it matters, if you have read the MoA or the Chapters agreement of > the > >>> Wikimedia India Chapter or most of the chapters, the Foundation and > >>> Chapters are independent organizations. Wikimedia Foundation is NOT a > >>> parent organization of the Wikimedia India Chapter. > >>> > >>> IMHO, It would be only a conflict of interest if I am both a paid > >>> employee of the chapter and also a board member of the chapter as well. > >>> > >>> The bigger problem is we have lots of work to do, very very little > hands > >>> and too many arm chair advisers. Period. > >>> > >>> -TC > >>> > >>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Theo10011 &lt;de10011(a)gmail.com> >>> > >>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < > >>>> tinucherian(a)gmail.com> >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Everyone is encouraged to volunteer for the chapter , regardless of > >>>>> what his or her day job is. There is nothing that prevents even a > >>>>> foundation staff or contractor even being the board member of the > >>>>> chapter , > >>>>> less alone any volunteer or member. There are several Wikimedia > >>>>> chapters > >>>>> in the world who has paid and full time staff working for them. The > >>>>> Secretary ( volunteer) of the Dutch chapter is also a Foundation Full > >>>>> time > >>>>> Contractor. > >>>>> > >>>>> Hope that clarifies > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I'm not sure what you are talking about above. > >>>> > >>>> The issue with Siebrand is a conflict of interest, as far as I know, > >>>> they should/would have declared it to their members. Laws in several > >>>> countries dictate that board of non-profit can not be paid employees > of > >>>> their own or parent organizations. Several chapter board members > usually > >>>> resign to take up employee position. It used to be that they had to > >>>> resign > >>>> to take up any position as staff, but contractor is a relatively new > >>>> feature with confusing legality, but there are still individuals who > see > >>>> the distinction and resign or declare their conflicts upfront. Board > >>>> members by definition can not be paid employees, this is not my > >>>> distinction > >>>> but a legal one. Something I believe all WIkimedia organizations > should > >>>> adhere to. > >>>> > >>>> I believe Ashwin explained it much better than I could. If we can > >>>> demarcate what role someone does something as, it would help a lot. > The > >>>> community staff at WMF usually keep 2 accounts to demarcate this > >>>> clearly, > >>>> on wiki. > >>>> > >>>> It might not be "practically separate whether we does something as a > >>>> volunteer...." the distinction is actually quite simple. One that > en.wp, > >>>> staff and majority of the community holds- paid vs. non-paid. What one > >>>> does > >>>> as an employee is separate from what one does as an employee. That is > >>>> why > >>>> they have two accounts and rather large disclaimers on their user > pages, > >>>> demarcating this very difference. > >>>> > >>>> Regards > >>>> Theo > >>>> > >>>> P.S. @achal lol > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > >>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > >> > >> > > > > > -- > Pradeep Mohandas > How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 15:43, Achal Prabhala &lt;aprabhala(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Can you please stop trolling? This is not <I-Dont-want-mention-list-l> -- Regards Srikanth.L

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 15:51, Achal Prabhala &lt;aprabhala(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: What? I was halfway through calculating my score. Dammit.

Without meaning to be disrespectful of you. your helpful attitude or your excellent work, Shiju, we have a bit of a problem when we ask people for help/favours/action in case they are holding multiple positions. I asked for a list of Malayalam articles of the 500 article CD collection. You obliged me promptly and I was happy & grateful. I had asked you as a friend/volunteer to one another. But suppose you hadn't obliged for any personal reason, there was nothing I could do about it but feel bad. But you are in fact a paid employee/contractor of WMF and your area of responsibility is the very same area where you were earlier only a volunteer. Had you refused for whatever reason, have I a right to "expect" support from you because you are being paid to do so? Take Noopur's case, her responsibilities are highly incestuous as she is all things - editor/chapter/WMF contractor. It is quite likely that the communications team of the chapter wants to go as per one line of thought whereas the WMF may want to go along another. In this case, there is a Conflict of Interest. How can we know whether she is acting true to community or true to WMF? It is wrong to put Noopur in such a position and Imho she should clearly embrace the role of WMF employee/contractor and be true to WMF at all times. There is enough time & opportunity for her to be community once her paid association ends. We do need certain demarcation in roles and responsibilities. I recommend that those who are WMF employees should NOT be part of the Chapter communications team. They are welcome to help and partner but in their proper role as WMF appointments. Similarly, a volunteer who is a chapter EC should clarify at all times with what voice he speaks. In case you are speaking as a Chapter EC, please sign off as (for example) Anirudh Bhati, Member EC, India Chapter and use your official wikimedia.in email account. If you are writing as a simple editor and giving your personal opinion, then Nearly Headless Nick or Sir Nicholas de Mimsy Porpington will do just fine. In my own case, I act as English Wikipedia SIG. I see myself as a steward of WikiProject India. The WikiProject is a sacred trust which I hold in care on behalf of the greater community. I am a chapter member and do this job as a consequence of nomination and approval by community members in the Chapter wiki. But I see myself as answerable NOT to the Chapter but to the whole community. My work should be judged by the community and the day they feel I am not acting in the best interests of the community, I will stop working on WikiProject India and become a normal editor again, even if the chapter feels I am doing okay. But if the chapter feels they need to replace me as English SIG I have no objection at all but will not stop working in the WikiProject because of that. The day I feel that chapter membership compromises my WikiProject India responsibilities, I will quit the chapter. Just some of my thoughts. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Shiju Alex &lt;shijualexonline(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote:

Jyoti. this is brilliant indeed. I agree, community support is something we expect from the foundation. Nitika helped me a lot last month for a meetup. Hari, if your mail was about Trust vs Society, I'm with you. Shiju, as an English Wikipedia editor, I stand by Anirudh, his edits, his role in setting up the chapter, and what he said. -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Hisham &lt;hisham(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: Thanks for the link, Hisham. Can you please have you staff include a summary along with the appropriate links? Thanks. Yes, no one has disputed community membership. But when an employee/paid contractor edits during work hours or within the purview of their contractual agreement with the Foundation, that is paid and not volunteer work. This is not something I enjoy pointing out over and over again, but perhaps you should try and see where I am coming from. I think you will find that I have clarified myself above, if you care to read. Even then, a paid consultant spending their free time doing volunteer work can still not be equated with a regular volunteer contributor. This is not a condemnation, but a statement of fact. I have been hearing this for a while. Let me remind you that every member of the community has the right to make you accountable for the work you claim you do. So there is no point if you are going to prepare half-done summaries and post them as a historical record of your work on meta. Please remember that I am asking for detailed reports, not saying that you have not done what you claim. Thanks. _______________________________________________

On Mar 7, 2012, at 12:45 PM, CherianTinu Abraham wrote: /cut/ I agree with Tinu. It's really hard to put a rigid structure to this. The illustration of the Trichy event (see above) of everyone pitching in - is not unique at all. In fact, it's probably always the case, in some degree or the other. The need of the hour (and I daresay, the near-distant future) is flexibility and agility. hisham

hi, I don't think all events will fall so neatly into categories. I do not want to see a situation where Chapter and Foundation wrestle for any event. Pradeep Handheld On 07/03/2012, wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com &lt;wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9

On Mar 7, 2012, at 1:01 PM, &lt;wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com&gt; &lt;wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com&gt; wrote: Thank you! ;-) Not nit-picking - but want to make a distinction. It is not "Nitika's initiative." If it is regarded as Nitika's initiative, it will fail! It will only succeed if there are folks in the community who agree to get involved with it, try it out, draw learnings from it, improve it, share it with other community members - who can then choose to adopt / adapt it. It is an idea that she proposed - and she is having a bunch of discussions with a bunch of community members about how to actually realise it. hisham

Dear all, In personal capacity, just offering a small clarification. I agree that chapter and IP as organizational entities should have their roles defined and their reports tabulated. This is a very desirable and healthy practice imho. Regarding my role as SIG, GLAM person, member of the Chapter communications and Foundation consultant, I believe it is not so much a case of conflicting roles but a matter of fewer people around. I am already working on weekends as volunteer (in the museum and as SIG) and do not want to be dissociated from the chapter communications team because I sincerely look up to Tinu as a mentor. However, this is just my personal opinion. Thank you Warm regards Noopur On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Hisham &lt;hisham(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: -- Noopur Raval Student Arts and Aesthetics Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi Ph: 9650567690

Thank you Naveen, I have already sent across first bit of correspondence to them. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Naveen Francis &lt;naveenpf(a)wikimedia.in&gt;wrote;wrote: -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG