fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Some updates on this, for anyone interested:
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/any-normal-human-being-would-be-of...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/facebook-google-tell-india...
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2011/12/06/indias-dreams-of-web-censorship/...
http://www.legallyindia.com/201112072434/Regulatory/kapil-sibal-to-sterilise...
http://www.livemint.com/2011/12/06130244/Govt-wants-to-scrub-the-Intern.html
There's still no clarity on what Kapil Sibal meant/means; whether he's serious; and the rules of the proposed IT act are still worrying; but at least the outcry is now entrenched.
On Tuesday 06 December 2011 10:24 PM, Bishakha Datta wrote:
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Kim Bruningkim@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 09:25:03PM +0530, Achal Prabhala wrote:
On Tuesday 06 December 2011 08:27 PM, Kim Bruning wrote:
I do not believe that the Indian internet community shares Kapil Sibal's position. Though they'll have to speak for themselves, of course! :-)
They have:
http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2664
and Mr Sibal's passing thought of yesterday is probably not going
anywhere.
And hurrah for that! :-)
A cautious hurrah.
In April this year, the Indian government tried to restrict web content by holding sites and service providers - or 'intermediaries' liable for content. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/technology/28internet.html?_r=2&scp=1&...
These new rules will be considered by Parliament in the winter session - and continue to pose a huge threat to online freedom of expression in India.
Best Bishakha _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I don't know whether a discussion on social networking is really directly on-topic for this list, but the reality is that the provisions of the law as it stands right now are certainly of dire portent for a free and fearlessly neutral Wikipedia and its associated projects. What Mr Sibal appears to be suggesting goes much further than the law, and as has been argued by several lawyers and Constitutional experts already, goes beyond the Constitution. Today social networking, tomorrow any other online content.
To take the subject most tiresomely and hotly debated during our recent Wikipedia Conference in Mumbai, maps. Those of us online in the 90s had to suffer the anachronistic and quite patently ridiculous rules of the GoI regarding maps in those days: publishing of anything faintly accurate about India was well-nigh impossible, publishing sensible guidebooks totally impossible for anywhere off the beaten track. To get a detailed map of anywhere Indian, one had to pose as a student and trek to Calcutta's (that's what it was in those days) Survey Institute where you could get a physical copy for a few rupees. Reproducing verboten, in any form, a jailable offence.
Google Maps was deemed against national security, until our Air Chief Marshal went public saying he had no objections, that any 'enemy's' airfields were as liable to be exposed as ours.
In this particular case, pretty well all the 'proprietary' social networks have a very clear policy that legally objectionable content will be taken down upon receipt of a complaint. Obviously this does not happen overnight, and this is not what Mr Sibal objects to anyway. No, he wants the content to be pre-screened. If the same rule of thumb was applied to cases instituted by the Government of India against ordinary citizens (in criminal and civil matters) in court, a great many would be dismissed immediately, I daresay, as the evidence is found to be wanting once the case is heard. If it was applied to arrests by the police, the situation would be much worse, and the police would be almost completely incapable of carrying out any work at all.
To some extent, the pressure on our public servants (elected or otherwise) is psychologically enormous, they deal with incredibly complex problems almost routinely. And most matters do get dealt with reasonably well. It is the silliness of autocracy that stands out most sharply in an increasingly online and increasingly less nationalistic world. Just as being cut off from connectivity can sometimes turn out to be a welcome relief, perhaps some of these fellows need a break from politics. It is a shame that our system of governance does not seem to allow for such breaks, as many of these jobs are also under the hidden pressure of internal competition.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Some updates on this, for anyone interested:
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/any-normal-human-being-would-be-of...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/facebook-google-tell-india...
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2011/12/06/indias-dreams-of-web-censorship/...
http://www.legallyindia.com/201112072434/Regulatory/kapil-sibal-to-sterilise...
http://www.livemint.com/2011/12/06130244/Govt-wants-to-scrub-the-Intern.html
There's still no clarity on what Kapil Sibal meant/means; whether he's serious; and the rules of the proposed IT act are still worrying; but at least the outcry is now entrenched.
On Tuesday 06 December 2011 10:24 PM, Bishakha Datta wrote:
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Kim Bruningkim@bruning.xs4all.nl
wrote:
On Tue, Dec 06, 2011 at 09:25:03PM +0530, Achal Prabhala wrote:
On Tuesday 06 December 2011 08:27 PM, Kim Bruning wrote:
I do not believe that the Indian internet community shares Kapil Sibal's position. Though they'll have to speak for themselves, of course! :-)
They have:
http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2664
and Mr Sibal's passing thought of yesterday is probably not going
anywhere.
And hurrah for that! :-)
A cautious hurrah.
In April this year, the Indian government tried to restrict web content
by
holding sites and service providers - or 'intermediaries' liable for content.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/technology/28internet.html?_r=2&scp=1&...
These new rules will be considered by Parliament in the winter session - and continue to pose a huge threat to online freedom of expression in
India.
Best Bishakha _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be of the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting the two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every byte of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed with its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that goes to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions and some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much work to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to submit to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation does not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has high SNR IMO.
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be of the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting the two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every byte of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed with its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that goes to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions and some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much work to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to submit to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation does not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has high SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
How will it hurt WP most than FB or TWIT?
*$U®¥∩* http://goo.gl/RoMyo.com http://FirefoxSurya.blogspot.com http://about.me/suryaceg
On 7 December 2011 16:04, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.ghoda@gmail.comwrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be
of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting
the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every byte of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed
with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions and some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much
work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to submit to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet" http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. * * * *3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). * * * *If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.*"
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be
of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting
the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every byte of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed
with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions and some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much
work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to submit to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
+ 1
*Times of India : Twitter, Facebook users target Sibal* http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/social-media/Twitter-Facebook-users-...
"*Sibal's Wikipedia profile was edited 21 times by web users and activists on Tuesday . His profile was locked later in the evening due to a large amount of web activists trying to edit simultaneously, describing him in unkind words*."
-TC
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.
- "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be
of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting
the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
byte
of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed
with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions
and
some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much
work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to
submit
to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.
- "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be
of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting
the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
byte
of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed
with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions
and
some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much
work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to
submit
to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 17:20, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Adding "idiot" in the lead section describing him is certainly vandalism. Infact the surprising and best thing was the anon vandalism was reverted by IP editors. I requested a 2 day semi protection since it might be highly accessed page and there might be more vandals around. Tinu went ahead and gave it 1 week semi protection. :)
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
No, Please add to the controversy subsection and improve it with proper references, those will not be vandalism. But one needs to be autoconfirmed user to edit this week. More reasons to create an account and start editing :)
Adding "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" on the Wikipedia article is vandalism http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Addling "verifiable facts" is acceptable ( including controversies and criticism" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Hope I clarified the difference.
Regards Tinu Cherian
P.S. On a lighter note, Please feel to add "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" , if you can provide/prove that with "Verifiable references" from "Reliable Sources" :)
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < tinucherian@gmail.com> wrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.* "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants
to
Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to
be of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and
connecting the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
byte
of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed
with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think
Wikimedia
projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media
sites
cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions
and
some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much
work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community
if
such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to
submit
to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Adding Kapil Sibal is an idiot is definitely vandalism, but saying 1000s of Twitter users and internet activists described him as an idiot with a citation to back it up is not. ;-)
On 07/12/2011, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
Adding "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" on the Wikipedia article is vandalism http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Addling "verifiable facts" is acceptable ( including controversies and criticism" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Hope I clarified the difference.
Regards Tinu Cherian
P.S. On a lighter note, Please feel to add "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" , if you can provide/prove that with "Verifiable references" from "Reliable Sources" :)
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < tinucherian@gmail.com> wrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.* "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants
to
Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to
be of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and
connecting the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
byte
of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed
with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think
Wikimedia
projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media
sites
cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions
and
some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much
work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community
if
such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to
submit
to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Exactly my point. I suspect that the addition of a line referring to the current controversy, where the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal has been trending, and to quote some of the numbers over time during this crisis, would not be out of place.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
Adding "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" on the Wikipedia article is vandalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Addling "verifiable facts" is acceptable ( including controversies and criticism"
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Hope I clarified the difference.
Regards Tinu Cherian
P.S. On a lighter note, Please feel to add "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" , if you can provide/prove that with "Verifiable references" from "Reliable Sources" :)
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < tinucherian@gmail.com> wrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.* "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
fyi
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants
to
Censor social Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to
be of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and
connecting the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
byte
of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be
discussed with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means
much
more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think
Wikimedia
projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media
sites
cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions
and
some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so
much work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community
if
such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to
submit
to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Vickram, while I agree with you my point was something else. What I meant to say was that if you add a source, you make your point, you're being neutral, and thus what you're doing is factually correct.
On 07/12/2011, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.com wrote:
Exactly my point. I suspect that the addition of a line referring to the current controversy, where the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal has been trending, and to quote some of the numbers over time during this crisis, would not be out of place.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
Adding "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" on the Wikipedia article is vandalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Addling "verifiable facts" is acceptable ( including controversies and criticism"
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Hope I clarified the difference.
Regards Tinu Cherian
P.S. On a lighter note, Please feel to add "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" , if you can provide/prove that with "Verifiable references" from "Reliable Sources" :)
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < tinucherian@gmail.com> wrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.* "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com
wrote:
> fyi > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants
to
> Censor > social > Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 > From: Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List < > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >
I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to
be of
the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and
connecting the
two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every
byte
of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be
discussed with
its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means
much
more than images.
If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think
Wikimedia
projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media
sites
cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that
goes
to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions
and
some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so
much work
to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community
if
such a thing happens.
There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to
submit
to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation
does
not arise for us to take those tough calls.
PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has
high
SNR IMO.
-- Regards Srikanth.L
-- Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
A useful update on the situation:
http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2665
On Wednesday 07 December 2011 10:36 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:
Vickram, while I agree with you my point was something else. What I meant to say was that if you add a source, you make your point, you're being neutral, and thus what you're doing is factually correct.
On 07/12/2011, Vickram Crishnavvcrishna@radiophony.com wrote:
Exactly my point. I suspect that the addition of a line referring to the current controversy, where the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal has been trending, and to quote some of the numbers over time during this crisis, would not be out of place.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
Adding "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" on the Wikipedia article is vandalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Addling "verifiable facts" is acceptable ( including controversies and criticism"
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Hope I clarified the difference.
Regards Tinu Cherian
P.S. On a lighter note, Please feel to add "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" , if you can provide/prove that with "Verifiable references" from "Reliable Sources" :)
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham< tinucherian@gmail.com> wrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.* "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan< parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook.
On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanansrik.lak@gmail.com wrote: > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhalaaprabhala@gmail.com wrote: >> fyi >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal Wants to >> Censor >> social >> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 >> From: Achal Prabhalaaprabhala@gmail.com >> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List< >> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >> > I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to be of > the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is > proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and connecting the > two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for his > support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every byte > of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 > different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be discussed with > its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means much > more than images. > > If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think Wikimedia > projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media sites > cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if that goes > to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / FlaggedRevisions and > some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. > Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so much work > to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian community if > such a thing happens. > > There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to submit > to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the situation does > not arise for us to take those tough calls. > > PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it has high > SNR IMO. > > -- > Regards > Srikanth.L
>
Sent from my mobile device
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hillhttp://communicall.wordpress.com
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hillhttp://communicall.wordpress.com
Interesting to note that the article mentions Sunil and Pranesh of the Centre for Internet and Society ...
On 08/12/2011, Achal Prabhala aprabhala@gmail.com wrote:
A useful update on the situation:
http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2665
On Wednesday 07 December 2011 10:36 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:
Vickram, while I agree with you my point was something else. What I meant to say was that if you add a source, you make your point, you're being neutral, and thus what you're doing is factually correct.
On 07/12/2011, Vickram Crishnavvcrishna@radiophony.com wrote:
Exactly my point. I suspect that the addition of a line referring to the current controversy, where the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal has been trending, and to quote some of the numbers over time during this crisis, would not be out of place.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
Adding "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" on the Wikipedia article is vandalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Addling "verifiable facts" is acceptable ( including controversies and criticism"
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapil_Sibal&action=historysubm...
Hope I clarified the difference.
Regards Tinu Cherian
P.S. On a lighter note, Please feel to add "Kapil Sibal is an idiot" , if you can provide/prove that with "Verifiable references" from "Reliable Sources" :)
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
Oh, the mention of 'idiot' on that page is vandalism (no, I haven't done it - yet)? I thought we had a very interesting discussion about current affairs at WikiConf where there seemed to be a consensus that presenting every side of the picture is important.
Is reporting the fact that major websites like Kafila.org and literally hundreds or thousands of Twitter users are tweeting the hashtag #IdiotKapilSibal wrong, in that case?
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, CherianTinu Abraham< tinucherian@gmail.com> wrote:
On a related note, this has appeared on *The Economic Times* :
" Five reasons why India can't censor the Internet"
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/five-reasons-why-india-can...
"*Yes, Internet content has the permanence and public-impact potential that a phone call does not, but equally, it lends itself brilliantly to self-regulation. *
*3. Peer review works: Wikipedia is the best example. Who could have imagined that a user-created encyclopedia could be so objective, and comprehensive? Yes, anyone can go in and edit anything (barring entries like "Kapil Sibal", which have been locked due to vandalism!). *
*If you make an inappropriate change, someone will come in and correct it.* "
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan< parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is basically restriction of freedom of expression and it will > hurt Wikipedia much more than it hurts Twitter or Facebook. > > On 07/12/2011, Srikanth Lakshmanansrik.lak@gmail.com wrote: >> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 12:06, Achal Prabhalaaprabhala@gmail.com > wrote: >>> fyi >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Indian Minister Kapil Sibal >>> Wants > to >>> Censor >>> social >>> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:02:10 +0530 >>> From: Achal Prabhalaaprabhala@gmail.com >>> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List< >>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >>> >> I just want to write that there was a community member who seemed to > be of >> the notion ImageFilter is the technical fix for what Kapil Sibal is >> proposing(without probably understanding / knowing much) and > connecting the >> two distinct things. Yes Sibal showed some images as examples for >> his >> support, but what Sibal means is much more and prescreening of every > byte >> of user generated content. Please tell that member that linking up 2 >> different things is not a good idea. ImageFilter needs to be > discussed with >> its own merits / demerits and this thing that Sibal proposes means > much >> more than images. >> >> If at all the legislation comes and is being enforced, I think > Wikimedia >> projects are better equipped *technically* than other social media > sites >> cited to support the local laws(so that we need not be banned if >> that > goes >> to that extreme) with a combination of ImageFilter / >> FlaggedRevisions > and >> some more customizations, but thats not where we would like to go. >> Community is already not so strong and needs support, there is so > much work >> to do in increasing content, censorship will cripple Indian >> community > if >> such a thing happens. >> >> There are many questions that the communities need to decide as to > submit >> to Indian laws (if at all they come through) and I hope the >> situation > does >> not arise for us to take those tough calls. >> >> PS : I would not like to post / join foundation-l myself since it >> has > high >> SNR IMO. >> >> -- >> Regards >> Srikanth.L >> > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Regards, > Srikanth Ramakrishnan. > Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >
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-- Vickram Fool On The Hillhttp://communicall.wordpress.com
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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-- Vickram Fool On The Hillhttp://communicall.wordpress.com
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wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org