Hi all,
An update on the Google translated articles issue in Tamil Wiki.
We exchanged few emails with the Google team and had a conference call once and the progress so far has been:
* Google gets our approval on article topics before translating. * Some of the software issues have been promised to be addressed (too many red links etc.,) * One or two co-coordinators from the translation team are checking the talk page discussions and making needed changes. But if there are no talk page suggestions the articles are virtually unattended.
However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff resistance for this operation. Besides the quality of translation we are concerned about this on a philosophical note.
We would like to seek the opinion of the larger Indian Wiki community on a philosophical angle in this issue. It will be definitely helpful before we decide the next step:
1. Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
2. Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note. This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - > User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a complaining stage.
Is this good for the community in the long run?
3. Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they haven't exercised yet.
This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not been transparent on this so far.
4. Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
5. Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using this without cleaning up existing articles?
6. Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or allowed to correct them.
7. Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different. Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language. This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is OK but not everywhere and as it is.
8. IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW? Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be interesting to know.
9. WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation.
On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on another should be watched.
Regards,
Ravi
Ravi,
Here is my view on your questions.
However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff resistance
for this operation.
I too support them :). Word-to-word translation is not good from the reader point of view. It may kill the project also.
1. Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
Yes, according to me.
2. Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and
healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note. This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - > User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a complaining stage.
Is this good for the community in the long run?
No it is not good for the community or for wiki.
3. Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they haven't exercised yet.
This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not been transparent on this so far.
Of course. Google will benefit more. Wiki will get many* artificial word-to-word translated articles* from which the readers will run away. Google will enhance their *English to Tamil translator* tool through this exercise.
4. Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free
will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
No. since they are translating articles for money. And wikipedians will not have time to go through each and every word that they translate. I think Tamil wikipedians need to concentrate more on tamil wikipedia article contest now. So who will review the Google translated articles.
5. Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is partly
responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using this without cleaning up existing articles?
I am against any type of word to word translation of English Wiki articles to any other language. We have tried this Malayalam Wikipedia 3 years before. We discontinued that since we found that exercise is creating artificial articles which is not good from the reader point of view.
6. Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and some
have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or allowed to correct them.
Your concern is true.
7. Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different. Since
the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language. This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is OK but not everywhere and as it is.
True. I already mentioned this above.
8. IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW?
Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be interesting to know.
It is the local wiki community to decide about this.
9. WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation.
Since they are not sure whether this project will happen.
On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian language
Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on another should be watched.
Google's only aim is to enhance their *English- Indian language translator tools*. All other discussions are the ways to achieve that aim.
Shiju
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
An update on the Google translated articles issue in Tamil Wiki.
We exchanged few emails with the Google team and had a conference call once and the progress so far has been:
- Google gets our approval on article topics before translating.
- Some of the software issues have been promised to be addressed (too many
red links etc.,)
- One or two co-coordinators from the translation team are checking the
talk page discussions and making needed changes. But if there are no talk page suggestions the articles are virtually unattended.
However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff resistance for this operation. Besides the quality of translation we are concerned about this on a philosophical note.
We would like to seek the opinion of the larger Indian Wiki community on a philosophical angle in this issue. It will be definitely helpful before we decide the next step:
Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and
healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note. This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - > User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a complaining stage.
Is this good for the community in the long run?
- Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they haven't exercised yet.
This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not been transparent on this so far.
- Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free
will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
- Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is partly
responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using this without cleaning up existing articles?
- Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and some
have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or allowed to correct them.
- Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different.
Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language. This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is OK but not everywhere and as it is.
- IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW?
Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be interesting to know.
- WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation.
On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on another should be watched.
Regards,
Ravi
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
I have tried the google translator to translate some en article into Malayalam. around 5, 6.
The difficulty which I felt was the word to word translation. We have a difference in style. Though we translate content of lot en wiki articles to ML, we dont do it as a word by word. we need to change the sentence, or sometimes the entire explanation in the way we write the ml articles. I left that option of google translator for ml wiki now.
regards Rameshng
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Shiju Alex shijualexonline@gmail.com wrote:
Ravi,
Here is my view on your questions.
However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff resistance for this operation.
I too support them :). Word-to-word translation is not good from the reader point of view. It may kill the project also.
- Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
Yes, according to me.
2. Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note. This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - > User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a complaining stage.
Is this good for the community in the long run?
No it is not good for the community or for wiki.
- Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they haven't exercised yet.
This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not been transparent on this so far.
Of course. Google will benefit more. Wiki will get many artificial word-to-word translated articles from which the readers will run away. Google will enhance their English to Tamil translator tool through this exercise.
- Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free
will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
No. since they are translating articles for money. And wikipedians will not have time to go through each and every word that they translate. I think Tamil wikipedians need to concentrate more on tamil wikipedia article contest now. So who will review the Google translated articles.
- Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is
partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using this without cleaning up existing articles?
I am against any type of word to word translation of English Wiki articles to any other language. We have tried this Malayalam Wikipedia 3 years before. We discontinued that since we found that exercise is creating artificial articles which is not good from the reader point of view.
- Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and
some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or allowed to correct them.
Your concern is true.
- Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different.
Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language. This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is OK but not everywhere and as it is.
True. I already mentioned this above.
- IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW?
Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be interesting to know.
It is the local wiki community to decide about this.
- WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation.
Since they are not sure whether this project will happen.
On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on another should be watched.
Google's only aim is to enhance their English- Indian language translator tools. All other discussions are the ways to achieve that aim.
Shiju
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
An update on the Google translated articles issue in Tamil Wiki.
We exchanged few emails with the Google team and had a conference call once and the progress so far has been:
- Google gets our approval on article topics before translating.
- Some of the software issues have been promised to be addressed (too many
red links etc.,)
- One or two co-coordinators from the translation team are checking the
talk page discussions and making needed changes. But if there are no talk page suggestions the articles are virtually unattended.
However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff resistance for this operation. Besides the quality of translation we are concerned about this on a philosophical note.
We would like to seek the opinion of the larger Indian Wiki community on a philosophical angle in this issue. It will be definitely helpful before we decide the next step:
- Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
2. Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note. This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - > User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a complaining stage.
Is this good for the community in the long run?
- Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they haven't exercised yet.
This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not been transparent on this so far.
- Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free
will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
- Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is
partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using this without cleaning up existing articles?
- Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and
some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or allowed to correct them.
- Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different.
Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language. This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is OK but not everywhere and as it is.
- IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW?
Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be interesting to know.
- WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation.
On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on another should be watched.
Regards,
Ravi
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
If you want to use Google translate better, try Google translator toolkithttp://translate.google.com/toolkit/ It allows you to edit the translation, which in turn helps the translation service improve (Google translate is not structure-based. It learns translations from mass input)
Plus, it allows you to import Wikipedia articles.
Manish*Earth* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ManishearthTalkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Manishearth • Stalk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Manishearth
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Ramesh N G rameshng@gmail.com wrote:
I have tried the google translator to translate some en article into Malayalam. around 5, 6.
The difficulty which I felt was the word to word translation. We have a difference in style. Though we translate content of lot en wiki articles to ML, we dont do it as a word by word. we need to change the sentence, or sometimes the entire explanation in the way we write the ml articles. I left that option of google translator for ml wiki now.
regards Rameshng
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Shiju Alex shijualexonline@gmail.com wrote:
Ravi,
Here is my view on your questions.
However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff resistance for this operation.
I too support them :). Word-to-word translation is not good from the
reader
point of view. It may kill the project also.
- Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
Yes, according to me.
- Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and
healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly
note.
This is very important in a small community especially. But this
operation
creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User -
User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a complaining stage.
Is this good for the community in the long run?
No it is not good for the community or for wiki.
- Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control
in
this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but
they
haven't exercised yet.
This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has
not
been transparent on this so far.
Of course. Google will benefit more. Wiki will get many artificial word-to-word translated articles from which the readers will run away. Google will enhance their English to Tamil translator tool through this exercise.
- Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of
free
will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
No. since they are translating articles for money. And wikipedians will
not
have time to go through each and every word that they translate. I think Tamil wikipedians need to concentrate more on tamil wikipedia article contest now. So who will review the Google translated articles.
- Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is
partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using this without cleaning up existing articles?
I am against any type of word to word translation of English Wiki
articles
to any other language. We have tried this Malayalam Wikipedia 3 years before. We discontinued that since we found that exercise is creating artificial articles which is not good from the reader point of view.
- Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and
some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it
good
to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or allowed to correct them.
Your concern is true.
- Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different.
Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local
language.
This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation
is
OK but not everywhere and as it is.
True. I already mentioned this above.
- IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS
VIEW?
Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it
will be
interesting to know.
It is the local wiki community to decide about this.
- WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only
organizes
it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly
noted
with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information
creation.
Since they are not sure whether this project will happen.
On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on another should be watched.
Google's only aim is to enhance their English- Indian language translator tools. All other discussions are the ways to achieve that aim.
Shiju
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
An update on the Google translated articles issue in Tamil Wiki.
We exchanged few emails with the Google team and had a conference call once and the progress so far has been:
- Google gets our approval on article topics before translating.
- Some of the software issues have been promised to be addressed (too
many
red links etc.,)
- One or two co-coordinators from the translation team are checking the
talk page discussions and making needed changes. But if there are no
talk
page suggestions the articles are virtually unattended.
However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff resistance for this operation. Besides the quality of translation we are concerned about this on a philosophical note.
We would like to seek the opinion of the larger Indian Wiki community on
a
philosophical angle in this issue. It will be definitely helpful before
we
decide the next step:
Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and
healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly
note.
This is very important in a small community especially. But this
operation
creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User -
User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a complaining stage.
Is this good for the community in the long run?
- Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control
in
this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but
they
haven't exercised yet.
This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has
not
been transparent on this so far.
- Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of
free
will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
- Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is
partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using this without cleaning up existing articles?
- Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and
some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it
good
to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or allowed to correct them.
- Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different.
Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local
language.
This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation
is
OK but not everywhere and as it is.
- IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS
VIEW?
Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it
will be
interesting to know.
- WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only
organizes
it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly
noted
with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information
creation.
On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on another should be watched.
Regards,
Ravi
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Hi Shiju, Ramesh
Thanks for the input. Can you update the status in ml wiki regarding Google translated articles? Seems it is banned in Bengali Wikipedia.
We understand that this project is run in many Indian language Wikis but not sure of the exact list.
Manish,
This whole conversation is about using
http://translate.google.com/toolkit/
The Kit by itself may be somewhat flexible to edit as you mentioned. But the paid translators don't seem to be using it.
Ravi
I agree with Shiju and Ramesh. I tried it out for Hindi. And the phrase 'A fully charged battery' got translated to what would mean a battery that got charged [the court charged]. It isn't all that accurate right now, but it may improve. While to a certain extent, it may seem like Google is catalising Localised content, you can clearly see that Google might be trying to gain Monopoly over Wikipedia as well. This may rsult in editors quitting and doing what Nichalp allegedly did a while back. My two paise [not cents].. Regards,
On 20 April 2010 23:27, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Shiju, Ramesh
Thanks for the input. Can you update the status in ml wiki regarding Google translated articles? Seems it is banned in Bengali Wikipedia.
We understand that this project is run in many Indian language Wikis but not sure of the exact list.
Manish,
This whole conversation is about using
http://translate.google.com/toolkit/
The Kit by itself may be somewhat flexible to edit as you mentioned. But the paid translators don't seem to be using it.
Ravi
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
The reason for sending the mail was translation memories (Which I stupidly forgot to put in) An added benefit of the kit which I forgot to mention is that you can use translation memorieshttp://translate.google.com/support/toolkit/bin/answer.py?answer=147863&hl=en. In these, you can upload translations (In TMX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_Memory_eXchangeformat), which take precedence over the default memories. This drastically improves performance. For example, you can upload a TMX file (I'm not sure how to make them--try the Third-party toolshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_Memory_eXchange#Third-party_toolslisted at enwiki), which contains a correctly translated (Mistakes will get greatly magnified) passage from English into Malyalam (Along with the originally translated passage). Many such passages in the TM teach the Kit to work better for those using the TM (Which can be shared). Making TMs especially helps change the style/dialect of the translation.
Actually, I support completely hand-translated documents, because, when hand translating, the translation flows out of you, alongwith the style. Editing machine translations inhibits your mind and doesn't allow the use of style except in spurts. I know this because I've tried translating stuff from English to French (Not for WP, though), and I found the toolkit useful. but I decided to stop and I typed the rest of it, using Google only as a dictionary. This might be the reason the translators don't want to use the Kit. Manish*Earth* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ManishearthTalkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Manishearth • Stalk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Manishearth
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Shiju, Ramesh
Thanks for the input. Can you update the status in ml wiki regarding Google translated articles? Seems it is banned in Bengali Wikipedia.
We understand that this project is run in many Indian language Wikis but not sure of the exact list.
Manish,
This whole conversation is about using
http://translate.google.com/toolkit/
The Kit by itself may be somewhat flexible to edit as you mentioned. But the paid translators don't seem to be using it.
Ravi
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Manish, what you say is true. Sometimes even I use Google Translator to translate simple words to Hindi, maybe because I don't know what it is, or because I know the Urdu word, whatever the reason, I still use it. The toolkit is something I don't like as it messes things up.
On 21 April 2010 00:42, Manish Goregaokar manishsmail@gmail.com wrote:
The reason for sending the mail was translation memories (Which I stupidly forgot to put in) An added benefit of the kit which I forgot to mention is that you can use translation memorieshttp://translate.google.com/support/toolkit/bin/answer.py?answer=147863&hl=en. In these, you can upload translations (In TMX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_Memory_eXchangeformat), which take precedence over the default memories. This drastically improves performance. For example, you can upload a TMX file (I'm not sure how to make them--try the Third-party toolshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_Memory_eXchange#Third-party_toolslisted at enwiki), which contains a correctly translated (Mistakes will get greatly magnified) passage from English into Malyalam (Along with the originally translated passage). Many such passages in the TM teach the Kit to work better for those using the TM (Which can be shared). Making TMs especially helps change the style/dialect of the translation.
Actually, I support completely hand-translated documents, because, when hand translating, the translation flows out of you, alongwith the style. Editing machine translations inhibits your mind and doesn't allow the use of style except in spurts. I know this because I've tried translating stuff from English to French (Not for WP, though), and I found the toolkit useful. but I decided to stop and I typed the rest of it, using Google only as a dictionary. This might be the reason the translators don't want to use the Kit. Manish*Earth* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ManishearthTalkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Manishearth • Stalk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Manishearth
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Shiju, Ramesh
Thanks for the input. Can you update the status in ml wiki regarding Google translated articles? Seems it is banned in Bengali Wikipedia.
We understand that this project is run in many Indian language Wikis but not sure of the exact list.
Manish,
This whole conversation is about using
http://translate.google.com/toolkit/
The Kit by itself may be somewhat flexible to edit as you mentioned. But the paid translators don't seem to be using it.
Ravi
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