I have tried the google translator to translate some en article into
Malayalam. around 5, 6.

The difficulty which I felt was the word to word translation. We have
a difference in style. Though we translate content of lot en wiki
articles to ML, we dont do it as a word by word. we need to change the
sentence, or sometimes the entire explanation in the way we write the
ml articles.
I left that option of google translator for ml wiki now.

regards
Rameshng


On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Shiju Alex <shijualexonline@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ravi,
>
> Here is my view on your questions.
>
>> However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff
>> resistance for this operation.
>
> I too support them :). Word-to-word translation is not good from the reader
> point of view. It may kill the project also.
>
>
>> 1. Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
>
> Yes, according to me.
>
>> 2.  Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and
>> healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note.
>> This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation
>> creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - >
>> User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team
>> coordinator  interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a
>> complaining stage.
>>
>> Is this good for the community in the long run?
>
> No it is not good for the community or for wiki.
>
>> 3. Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
>> assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in
>> this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they
>> haven't exercised yet.
>>
>> This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not
>> been transparent on this so far.
>
> Of course. Google will benefit more.  Wiki will get many artificial
> word-to-word translated articles from which the readers will run away.
> Google will enhance their English to Tamil translator tool through this
> exercise.
>
>> 4. Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free
>> will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of
>> articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
>
> No. since they are translating articles for money. And wikipedians will not
> have time to go through each and every word that they translate. I think
> Tamil wikipedians need to concentrate more on tamil wikipedia article
> contest now. So who will review the Google translated  articles.
>
>> 5. Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is
>> partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using
>> this without cleaning up existing articles?
>
> I am against any type of word to word translation of English Wiki articles
> to any other language. We have tried this Malayalam Wikipedia 3 years
> before. We discontinued that since we found that exercise is creating
> artificial articles which is not good from the reader point of view.
>
>> 6. Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and
>> some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good
>> to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or
>> allowed to correct them.
>
> Your concern is true.
>
>> 7. Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different.
>> Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal
>> translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language.
>> This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is
>> OK but not everywhere and as it is.
>
> True. I already mentioned this above.
>
>> 8. IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW?
>> Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be
>> interesting to know.
>
> It is the local wiki community to decide about this.
>
>> 9. WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
>> emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes
>> it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted
>> with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation.
>
> Since they are not sure whether this project will happen.
>
>> On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian
>> language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and
>> Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on
>> another should be watched.
>
> Google's only aim is to enhance their English- Indian language translator
> tools. All other discussions are the ways to achieve that aim.
>
>
> Shiju
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Ravishankar <ravidreams@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> An update on the Google translated articles issue in Tamil Wiki.
>>
>> We exchanged few emails with the Google team and had a conference call
>> once and the progress so far has been:
>>
>> * Google gets our approval on article topics before translating.
>> * Some of the software issues have been promised to be addressed (too many
>> red links etc.,)
>> * One or two co-coordinators from the translation team are checking the
>> talk page discussions and making needed changes. But if there are no talk
>> page suggestions the articles are virtually unattended.
>>
>> However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff
>> resistance for this operation. Besides the quality of translation we are
>> concerned about this on a philosophical note.
>>
>> We would like to seek the opinion of the larger Indian Wiki community on a
>> philosophical angle in this issue. It will be definitely helpful before we
>> decide the next step:
>>
>> 1. Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit?
>>
>> 2.  Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and
>> healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note.
>> This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation
>> creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - >
>> User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team
>> coordinator  interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a
>> complaining stage.
>>
>> Is this good for the community in the long run?
>>
>> 3. Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is
>> assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in
>> this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they
>> haven't exercised yet.
>>
>> This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not
>> been transparent on this so far.
>>
>> 4. Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free
>> will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of
>> articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,)
>>
>> 5. Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is
>> partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using
>> this without cleaning up existing articles?
>>
>> 6. Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and
>> some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good
>> to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or
>> allowed to correct them.
>>
>> 7. Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different.
>> Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal
>> translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language.
>> This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is
>> OK but not everywhere and as it is.
>>
>> 8. IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW?
>> Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be
>> interesting to know.
>>
>> 9. WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has
>> emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes
>> it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted
>> with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation.
>>
>> On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian
>> language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and
>> Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on
>> another should be watched.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ravi
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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