Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act).
However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage.
More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction.
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Thank you,
Hi all, I have one important question here. The Foreign Contribution Regulatory Act prohibits money received from abroad to be used as payments or salaries to anyone employed with the press or media. I believe Dr. Pavanaja is a columnist for Prajavani. How does this work out? It's just a preemptive question.
On 12 May 2014 17:45, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act).
However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage.
More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction.
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Thank you,
Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Hi,
There is a factual error. I am not employed with Prajavani. I write just one column per week as freelancer.
Regards,
Pavanaja
From: wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Srikanth Ramakrishnan Sent: 13 May 2014 12:50 To: Wikimedia India Community list Cc: Kannada Wikipedia Discussion List wikikn-l@wikipedia.org; Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in Bangalore, India Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation
Hi all, I have one important question here.
The Foreign Contribution Regulatory Act prohibits money received from abroad to be used as payments or salaries to anyone employed with the press or media.
I believe Dr. Pavanaja is a columnist for Prajavani. How does this work out?
It's just a preemptive question.
On 12 May 2014 17:45, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about 1.8 Crores through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act).
However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage.
More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction.
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Thank you,
Pavanaja, as per the FCRA: 3. (1) No foreign contribution shall be accepted by any- (g) association or company engaged in the production or broadcast of audio news or audio visual news or current affairs programmes through any electronic mode, or any other electronic form as defined in clause ® of sub-section (I) of section 2 of the Information Technology Act, 2000 or any other mode of mass communication; (h) correspondent or columnist, cartoonist, editor, owner of the association or company referred to in clause (g).
Writing a weekly column, as a freelancer makes one a columnist.
On 13 May 2014 15:52, Pavanaja U B pavanaja@vishvakannada.com wrote:
Hi,
There is a factual error. I am not employed with Prajavani. I write just one column per week as freelancer.
Regards,
Pavanaja
*From:* wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Srikanth Ramakrishnan *Sent:* 13 May 2014 12:50 *To:* Wikimedia India Community list *Cc:* Kannada Wikipedia Discussion List wikikn-l@wikipedia.org; Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in Bangalore, India *Subject:* Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation
Hi all, I have one important question here.
The Foreign Contribution Regulatory Act prohibits money received from abroad to be used as payments or salaries to anyone employed with the press or media.
I believe Dr. Pavanaja is a columnist for Prajavani. How does this work out?
It's just a preemptive question.
On 12 May 2014 17:45, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act).
However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage.
More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction.
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Thank you,
-- Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
--
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan,
What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce back.
Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore:
https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-int...
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Dear Pavanaja,
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You have received an annual compensation of about *17 Lakhs* last year (that also excludes travel and other reimbursements) as per the declaration made by Vishnu on the talk page of this proposal [1]. This came from the funds granted to CIS that was received from WMF through FCRA. And this will be increased by 20% for this year?
Further, for Kannada alone, *12.3 Lakhs* seem to be set aside out of which you seem to be the primary beneficiary. [2]
And all this while, you have been a columnist for Prajavani.
This seems to be a clear violation of Foreign Contribution Regulation Act as outlined by Srikanth on the copied email.
Regards,
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
On 13 May 2014 22:29, Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com wrote:
Pavanaja, as per the FCRA: 3. (1) No foreign contribution shall be accepted by any- (g) association or company engaged in the production or broadcast of audio news or audio visual news or current affairs programmes through any electronic mode, or any other electronic form as defined in clause ® of sub-section (I) of section 2 of the Information Technology Act, 2000 or any other mode of mass communication; (h) correspondent or columnist, cartoonist, editor, owner of the association or company referred to in clause (g).
Writing a weekly column, as a freelancer makes one a columnist.
On 13 May 2014 15:52, Pavanaja U B pavanaja@vishvakannada.com wrote:
Hi,
There is a factual error. I am not employed with Prajavani. I write just one column per week as freelancer.
Regards,
Pavanaja
*From:* wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Srikanth Ramakrishnan *Sent:* 13 May 2014 12:50 *To:* Wikimedia India Community list *Cc:* Kannada Wikipedia Discussion List wikikn-l@wikipedia.org; Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in Bangalore, India *Subject:* Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation
Hi all, I have one important question here.
The Foreign Contribution Regulatory Act prohibits money received from abroad to be used as payments or salaries to anyone employed with the press or media.
I believe Dr. Pavanaja is a columnist for Prajavani. How does this work out?
It's just a preemptive question.
On 12 May 2014 17:45, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act).
However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage.
More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction.
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Thank you,
-- Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
--
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan,
What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce back.
Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore:
https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-int...
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan, What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce back.
Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore:
https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-int...
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Hi Hari, Srikant and Vishnu,
I want to understand couple of points in this regard, I would appreciate if each of you can share your insights on these questions: (1) Was the Wikimedia India Chapter Board involved in framing up this FDC Proposal and fixing compensation? Or was it left to CIS to address it? And that Wikimedia Community woke up late to realities of life. (2) Compensation to the tune of few lakhs per month per person will definitely need a more stringent procedures for appraisals and appointments. What are the steps that Wikimedia India Chapter has taken to initiate proper scrutiny and appraisal? (3) On an additional note, considering the hiring by CIS is related to Wikimedia related activities, are the procedures in line with the standard practices that are adopted by Wikimedia Foundation elsewhere/worldwide?
Considering we are a non-profit, and that we are not a thriving entity with our programme budgets running into crores of rupees, administrative expenses running beyond even 20% is a red flag. Just that we are a non-profit, does not mean we will need to fix salaries/compensations on a appointed-to-enjoy basis, rather I strongly recommend that the Board takes note of adopting a more performance based incentive structure. Is that already in place for managerial roles such as a Programme Director and other senior management positions? I feel terrible and sorry to learn of the proceedings so far, and that we did not have enough budget to support an admin salary for Sowmyan.
I am actually surprised that the Budgetary Allocations find no mention for Briefing and Support Training for Board Members to equip themselves with few basic running structures and legal points to take note, considering it will not take huge budget. And a case in point for the board members of Wikimedia India Chapter, that spending beyond the line by a related party agency through which funds were received for activities related to Wikimedia, will not absolve the board members of the responsibility of oversight in legal course of action by any member (past or present) of the Wikimedia India Chapter ( I understand it is registered as a Society). I recommend the Board takes immediate cognizance of the proceedings so far, red flag issues at appropriate levels and initiate corrective action.
regards Abhijith
_________________________Abhijith JayanthiE: abhijith@wikimedia.inM: +91-9866898311 On Wednesday, 14 May 2014 12:15 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Pavanaja,
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You have received an annual compensation of about 17 Lakhs last year (that also excludes travel and other reimbursements) as per the declaration made by Vishnu on the talk page of this proposal [1]. This came from the funds granted to CIS that was received from WMF through FCRA. And this will be increased by 20% for this year?
Further, for Kannada alone, 12.3 Lakhs seem to be set aside out of which you seem to be the primary beneficiary. [2]
And all this while, you have been a columnist for Prajavani.
This seems to be a clear violation of Foreign Contribution Regulation Act as outlined by Srikanth on the copied email.
Regards,
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
On 13 May 2014 22:29, Srikanth Ramakrishnan rsrikanth05@gmail.com wrote:
Pavanaja,
as per the FCRA: 3. (1) No foreign contribution shall be accepted by any- (g) association or company engaged in the production or broadcast of audio news or audio visual news or current affairs programmes through any electronic mode, or any other electronic form as defined in clause ® of sub-section (I) of section 2 of the Information Technology Act, 2000 or any other mode of mass communication; (h) correspondent or columnist, cartoonist, editor, owner of the association or company referred to in clause (g).
Writing a weekly column, as a freelancer makes one a columnist.
On 13 May 2014 15:52, Pavanaja U B pavanaja@vishvakannada.com wrote:
Hi,
There is a factual error. I am not employed with Prajavani. I write just one column per week as freelancer. Regards, Pavanaja From:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Srikanth Ramakrishnan Sent: 13 May 2014 12:50 To: Wikimedia India Community list Cc: Kannada Wikipedia Discussion List wikikn-l@wikipedia.org; Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in Bangalore, India Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation Hi all, I have one important question here. The Foreign Contribution Regulatory Act prohibits money received from abroad to be used as payments or salaries to anyone employed with the press or media. I believe Dr. Pavanaja is a columnist for Prajavani. How does this work out? It's just a preemptive question. On 12 May 2014 17:45, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.com wrote: Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about 1.8 Crores through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page. The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person). Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act). However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage. More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction.
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Thank you,
Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan, What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce back. Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore: https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-int... _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
--
Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan, What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce back.
Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore: https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-int...
_______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Abhijith,
CIS is an independent organization with it's own governing board.
CIS consults WMIN and the volunteer community regarding its programs and appointments.
But, CIS has the final authority on deciding about its budget and staff.
Ravi
Dear Hari,
I am afraid that the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act (FCRA) is being interpreted selectively here. While Section 3 of the FCRA is important it is important to read it in conjunction with Section 4 of the FCRA (an exception clause for Section 3), which states that even those who participate in broadcast and electronic media can receive foreign money, “*by way of salary, wages or other remuneration due to him* or to any group of persons working under him, from any foreign source or by way of payment in the ordinary course of business transacted in India by such foreign source”.
I do not think there is any violation in Pavanaja writing for Prajavani.
Best, Vishnu
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 12:15 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
Dear Pavanaja,
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You have received an annual compensation of about *17 Lakhs* last year (that also excludes travel and other reimbursements) as per the declaration made by Vishnu on the talk page of this proposal [1]. This came from the funds granted to CIS that was received from WMF through FCRA. And this will be increased by 20% for this year?
Further, for Kannada alone, *12.3 Lakhs* seem to be set aside out of which you seem to be the primary beneficiary. [2]
And all this while, you have been a columnist for Prajavani.
This seems to be a clear violation of Foreign Contribution Regulation Act as outlined by Srikanth on the copied email.
Regards,
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
On 13 May 2014 22:29, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <rsrikanth05@gmail.com mailto:rsrikanth05@gmail.com> wrote:
Pavanaja, as per the FCRA: 3. (1) No foreign contribution shall be accepted by any- (g) association or company engaged in the production or broadcast of audio news or audio visual news or current affairs programmes through any electronic mode, or any other electronic form as defined in clause ® of sub-section (I) of section 2 of the Information Technology Act, 2000 or any other mode of mass communication; (h) correspondent or columnist, cartoonist, editor, owner of the association or company referred to in clause (g). Writing a weekly column, as a freelancer makes one a columnist. * * * * On 13 May 2014 15:52, Pavanaja U B <pavanaja@vishvakannada.com <mailto:pavanaja@vishvakannada.com>> wrote: Hi, There is a factual error. I am not employed with Prajavani. I write just one column per week as freelancer. Regards, Pavanaja *From:*wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> [mailto:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-in-blr-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org>] *On Behalf Of *Srikanth Ramakrishnan *Sent:* 13 May 2014 12:50 *To:* Wikimedia India Community list *Cc:* Kannada Wikipedia Discussion List wikikn-l@wikipedia.org <mailto:wikikn-l@wikipedia.org>; Mailing list for Wikimedians / Wikipedians in Bangalore, India *Subject:* Re: [Wikimedia-in-blr] [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation Hi all, I have one important question here. The Foreign Contribution Regulatory Act prohibits money received from abroad to be used as payments or salaries to anyone employed with the press or media. I believe Dr. Pavanaja is a columnist for Prajavani. How does this work out? It's just a preemptive question. On 12 May 2014 17:45, Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig@gmail.com <mailto:hpnadig@gmail.com>> wrote: Fellow Wikimedians, As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page. The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person). Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act). However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage. More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction. [1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_July_2014_-_June_2015/Budget#Budget_as_per_Expenditure_Heads Thank you, -- Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan, What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce back. Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore: https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-introduction-of-volvo-city-buses-in-the-city-of-coimbatore _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan, What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce back. Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore: https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-introduction-of-volvo-city-buses-in-the-city-of-coimbatore _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig
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Dear Wikimedians,
Some responses here on Meta [1] on behalf of CIS. I have also commented in my individual capacity on the statutory aspects to the best of my knowledge. Also see some in-line replies.
On Monday 12 May 2014 05:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
As may of you know, please note that CIS has proposed the said budget to implement 21 plans of which there are 7 language area plans, 8 stand along projects, 3 community strengthening initiatives, etc.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
As you may have already seen in the budget, please note that the salary proposed is for 7 employees on the CIS-A2K team and the average per person salary would come to less than 1 lakh per month, per person and not as stated above.
CIS-A2K welcomes your feedback and suggestions.
Thank you, Vishnu
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Vishnu,
All your proposed plans can be done and have been done by community for years with ZERO staff cost.
Please don't justify your program budget by including inflated staff salary as a part of it.
Ravi
Hi all,
Please find my reply inline.
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Vishnu visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Wikimedians,
Some responses here on Meta [1] on behalf of CIS. I have also commented in my individual capacity on the statutory aspects to the best of my knowledge. Also see some in-line replies.
On Monday 12 May 2014 05:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
As may of you know, please note that CIS has proposed the said budget to implement 21 plans of which there are 7 language area plans, 8 stand along projects, 3 community strengthening initiatives, etc.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
As you may have already seen in the budget, please note that the salary proposed is for 7 employees on the CIS-A2K team and the average per person salary would come to less than 1 lakh per month, per person and not as stated above.
Vishnu, I believe CIS has already agreed on the proposal page on meta that the CIS-A2K are above industry standard. Please stop trying to mislead the lost. What Hari said is that one of the Salary is about 2 lakhs INR and I believe that is true. The WMIN propose for staff is also public and the median of that is less than half of what CIS proposes.
CIS-A2K welcomes your feedback and suggestions.
Thank you, Vishnu
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
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Vishnu,
There have been detailed discussion on how the salaries seem to overshadow everything else in CIS's proposal of *1.8 Crore*. And it is not just me, many other community members who have logged their comment there have felt that the salaries are quite extravagant to Indian standards. Even the staff assessment takes note of this.
You yourself seem to be drawing around *24 Lakhs *per annum (which is 2 Lakhs per month!) that excludes travel and reimbursements as declared by you. [1] I'm pretty sure even the readers on this mailing list recognize that these are pretty huge salaries that we're talking about for Indian standards in non-profits for the responsibilities outlined.
Further, on the FCRA compliance issues, the compliance to Karnataka Societies Act and the concerns about Conflict of Interest - there are apparently some grave issues *which require that more documentation is made public* by the CIS as stated by me at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
and at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
On 13 May 2014 18:43, Vishnu visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Wikimedians,
Some responses here on Meta [1] on behalf of CIS. I have also commented in my individual capacity on the statutory aspects to the best of my knowledge. Also see some in-line replies.
On Monday 12 May 2014 05:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
As may of you know, please note that CIS has proposed the said budget to implement 21 plans of which there are 7 language area plans, 8 stand along projects, 3 community strengthening initiatives, etc.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
As you may have already seen in the budget, please note that the salary proposed is for 7 employees on the CIS-A2K team and the average per person salary would come to less than 1 lakh per month, per person and not as stated above.
CIS-A2K welcomes your feedback and suggestions.
Thank you, Vishnu
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
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Dear Hari,
Please see my replies in-line.
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 12:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
Vishnu,
There have been detailed discussion on how the salaries seem to overshadow everything else in CIS's proposal of *1.8 Crore*. And it is not just me, many other community members who have logged their comment there have felt that the salaries are quite extravagant to Indian standards. Even the staff assessment takes note of this.
You yourself seem to be drawing around *24 Lakhs *per annum (which is 2 Lakhs per month!) that excludes travel and reimbursements as declared by you. [1] I'm pretty sure even the readers on this mailing list recognize that these are pretty huge salaries that we're talking about for Indian standards in non-profits for the responsibilities outlined.
Yes, it is no secret how much salary I draw or what the CIS-A2K program budget is and what we have proposed. Members on this list will remember that once I took over as the Program Director of CIS-A2K, I have ensured that we bring transparency to the entire CIS-A2K program including the project budget. We shared the entire A2K budget with the community in May 2013 on this list [1]. Staff salaries which also includes my salary were disclosed. Members on the list do know that we have taken this transparency measure much before the current FDC application (or at a time when we were not thinking about this FDC application). Neither I nor the current CIS-A2K team had any say in determining the salaries. There has been an extensive discussion on this here [2].
I am afraid that in your earlier mail the proposed A2K program plans number was wrongly quoted along with the per-person salary and I was merely highlighting the right facts.
Further, on the FCRA compliance issues, the compliance to Karnataka Societies Act and the concerns about Conflict of Interest - there are apparently some grave issues *which require that more documentation is made public* by the CIS as stated by me at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
and at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
We appreciated this effort on Meta here [3]. Again let me appreciate the community members and your effort to throw light on these concerns. As stated in the reply on Meta [3], and I quote here for the benefit of the members:
"CIS has never compromised in getting the best available professional expertise in complying with the various statutory requirements. So at the outset we need to state that CIS has always complied with the statutory advice received from our legal adviser and whenever required also sought second opinion. Thus to our current understanding we are in the best possible compliance with the statutory requirements for the not-for-profits in India. However, because a few of the community members, in the interest of continuing support to Wikimedia movement in India, expressed serious concerns, CIS will take every effort to share these with our legal advisers for their professional opinion. This could take some days, but we are certainly committed to sharing our legal advisers' opinion on these matters with the community and FDC at the earliest. This exercise is also important for CIS as it will help us to put ourselves in much better compliance, if required."
We are committed to seeking the opinion of our legal advisers on the concerns raised, as we respect the voice of the community members, including you. Also it is more in the interest of CIS to better comply with the statutory requirements.
I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.
Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory compliances. The Income Tax department periodically scrutinizes CIS's accounts. All the documents are always open for scrutiny by the donors. We have made every document available that was asked by the WMF's visiting team to CIS (which includes WMF's CFO Garfield Byrd) in February 2014. We had also thrown open all our document to the general public for scrutiny during May 2013. I have written to members on this list and other Wikimedia lists, inviting them to come and scrutinize all our documents during this Open Week. Please see the announcement here [4].
Thanks for engaging with CIS-A2K's work, which we always appreciate.
Best, Vishnu
[1] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-May/009980.html
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
[4] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-May/009980.html
Vishnu,
//Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them again. //
//We had also thrown open all our document to the general public for scrutiny during May 2013. I have written to members on this list and other Wikimedia lists, inviting them to come and scrutinize all our documents during this Open Week.//
Please let me know when is this open week for 2014.
I would like to come and have a look at the MoU you signed with WMF.
Since WMF is silent on answering crucial questions on the MoU, could you please answer one question:
What is the exit clause for your working partnership with WMF?
Thanks,
Ravi
Dear Ravi,
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 01:02 PM, Ravishankar wrote:
Vishnu,
//Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them again. //
//We had also thrown open all our document to the general public for scrutiny during May 2013. I have written to members on this list and other Wikimedia lists, inviting them to come and scrutinize all our documents during this Open Week.//
Please let me know when is this open week for 2014.
It was done as part of the CIS's 5th anniversary. I am not sure if we will have a similar open week for 2014. But should we get the FDC funding, I would like to explore means by which the community can also take part in financially auditing the A2K expenses. We could discuss this separately, later?
I would like to come and have a look at the MoU you signed with WMF.
As stated earlier on this mailing list, we are unable to share this MoU as WMF has given us a clear instruction not to do so.
Since WMF is silent on answering crucial questions on the MoU, could you please answer one question:
What is the exit clause for your working partnership with WMF?
The Grant agreement is for two years.
Best, Vishnu
I feel that the salaries are ok according to Indian standards. Even they can be considered less from some Indians seeing the kind of contribution they are doing.
And again in the end the purpose and work is more important than salary issue. I have a feeling that my time is being wasted by these kinds of debates.
Thanks.
-- Abhijeet Safai
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Vishnu visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Hari,
Please see my replies in-line.
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 12:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
Vishnu,
There have been detailed discussion on how the salaries seem to overshadow everything else in CIS's proposal of *1.8 Crore*. And it is not just me, many other community members who have logged their comment there have felt that the salaries are quite extravagant to Indian standards. Even the staff assessment takes note of this.
You yourself seem to be drawing around *24 Lakhs *per annum (which is 2 Lakhs per month!) that excludes travel and reimbursements as declared by you. [1] I'm pretty sure even the readers on this mailing list recognize that these are pretty huge salaries that we're talking about for Indian standards in non-profits for the responsibilities outlined.
Yes, it is no secret how much salary I draw or what the CIS-A2K program budget is and what we have proposed. Members on this list will remember that once I took over as the Program Director of CIS-A2K, I have ensured that we bring transparency to the entire CIS-A2K program including the project budget. We shared the entire A2K budget with the community in May 2013 on this list [1]. Staff salaries which also includes my salary were disclosed. Members on the list do know that we have taken this transparency measure much before the current FDC application (or at a time when we were not thinking about this FDC application). Neither I nor the current CIS-A2K team had any say in determining the salaries. There has been an extensive discussion on this here [2].
I am afraid that in your earlier mail the proposed A2K program plans number was wrongly quoted along with the per-person salary and I was merely highlighting the right facts.
Further, on the FCRA compliance issues, the compliance to Karnataka Societies Act and the concerns about Conflict of Interest - there are apparently some grave issues *which require that more documentation is made public* by the CIS as stated by me at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
and at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
We appreciated this effort on Meta here [3]. Again let me appreciate the community members and your effort to throw light on these concerns. As stated in the reply on Meta [3], and I quote here for the benefit of the members:
"CIS has never compromised in getting the best available professional expertise in complying with the various statutory requirements. So at the outset we need to state that CIS has always complied with the statutory advice received from our legal adviser and whenever required also sought second opinion. Thus to our current understanding we are in the best possible compliance with the statutory requirements for the not-for-profits in India. However, because a few of the community members, in the interest of continuing support to Wikimedia movement in India, expressed serious concerns, CIS will take every effort to share these with our legal advisers for their professional opinion. This could take some days, but we are certainly committed to sharing our legal advisers' opinion on these matters with the community and FDC at the earliest. This exercise is also important for CIS as it will help us to put ourselves in much better compliance, if required."
We are committed to seeking the opinion of our legal advisers on the concerns raised, as we respect the voice of the community members, including you. Also it is more in the interest of CIS to better comply with the statutory requirements.
I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.
Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory compliances. The Income Tax department periodically scrutinizes CIS's accounts. All the documents are always open for scrutiny by the donors. We have made every document available that was asked by the WMF's visiting team to CIS (which includes WMF's CFO Garfield Byrd) in February 2014. We had also thrown open all our document to the general public for scrutiny during May 2013. I have written to members on this list and other Wikimedia lists, inviting them to come and scrutinize all our documents during this Open Week. Please see the announcement here [4].
Thanks for engaging with CIS-A2K's work, which we always appreciate.
Best, Vishnu
[1] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-May/009980.html
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
[4] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-May/009980.html
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[..snip..]
On 14 May 2014 12:53, Vishnu visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.
Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory compliances.
[...]
Noted.
Kindly make the following documents public:
1. Information about the AGMs and elections held by CIS for its governing body for all these years. 2. Latest copy of the Memorandum of Association as filed with the Registrar of Societies, Karnataka (as mandated by Clause 13 of the Karnataka Societies Registration act). 3. The annual filings of CIS with the Registrar of Societies, Karnataka for all these years. 4. The property ownership documents of the premises where CIS office works from. 5. The MoU signed by CIS with WMF. 6. The FCRA certification and compliance related documents.
Regards,
Dear Hari,
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 02:11 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
[..snip..]
On 14 May 2014 12:53, Vishnu <visdaviva@gmail.com mailto:visdaviva@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.
Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory compliances.
[...]
Noted.
Kindly make the following documents public:
- Information about the AGMs and elections held by CIS for its governing body for all these years.
- Latest copy of the Memorandum of Association as filed with the Registrar of Societies, Karnataka (as mandated by Clause 13 of the Karnataka Societies Registration act).
- The annual filings of CIS with the Registrar of Societies, Karnataka for all these years.
- The property ownership documents of the premises where CIS office works from.
- The MoU signed by CIS with WMF.
- The FCRA certification and compliance related documents.
We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as CIS does not own the building. These are with the owners and we cannot provide them.
As stated on this list many times we cannot share the WMF Grant Agreement (no. 5) without the explicit permission from WMF.
Rest of the documents could be made available. But the admin team is in the middle of audit. Let me consult Sunil (he will return to office mid next week) and get back on this.
Best, Vishnu
Vishnu,
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Program/India_Program_Announcement_and_...
asks
//Did the grant go through the Wikimedia Grants Program process?//
and answers as folows:
"No, *this first one* did not. This arrangement is a partnership in addition to a project grant."
If that was the first grant, were consequent terms for grants promised in any way (written or unwritten understanding)? The above link and recent WMF board resolution about your eligibility to get funds through FDC at
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:FDC_recognition_for_the_Cent...
make it clear that you are a working partner of WMF besides being a grant receiver.
Many Wikimedia affiliates and community members sign grant agreements with WMF. There is nothing in those grant agreements which is not already discussed in META to keep them confidential.
So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
For example, inheriting the work force of former WMF India programs was one obvious condition to get the grant.
I am looking for an MoU like the one you signed with Goa University ( https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHXxJd1jwTeMnZHNVFyTWVncFU/edit ) which clearly defines that the partnership is for 3 years and that either party can exit with one month's notice.
The duration of the first grant is different from the duration of your working partnership.
Please let me know if such exit clause for your working partnership with WMF exists.
I am aware that WMF wants to keep these things confidential.
But, please understand that CIS is the first organization / working partner of WMF that is entering the FDC process when WMF has no clear guidelines for grant making to non-Wikimedia affiliates.
By keeping things confidential like this, both you and WMF risk losing the trust of the community without which you cannot guarantee successful completion of your goals.
Ravi
Hi Ravi,
Will you consider rephrasing below?
" By keeping things confidential like this, both you and WMF risk losing the trust of the community without which you cannot guarantee successful completion of your goals. "
Especially "risk losing"...
I have ALREADY LOST trust in the later at least and losing it in the former gradually. If I were to write, I would say, "...both you and WMF 'ARE' loosing..."
Anyways, that's my personal perception.
Regards, Dhaval On 14 May 2014 17:50, "Ravishankar" ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Vishnu,
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Program/India_Program_Announcement_and_...
asks
//Did the grant go through the Wikimedia Grants Program process?//
and answers as folows:
"No, *this first one* did not. This arrangement is a partnership in addition to a project grant."
If that was the first grant, were consequent terms for grants promised in any way (written or unwritten understanding)? The above link and recent WMF board resolution about your eligibility to get funds through FDC at
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:FDC_recognition_for_the_Cent...
make it clear that you are a working partner of WMF besides being a grant receiver.
Many Wikimedia affiliates and community members sign grant agreements with WMF. There is nothing in those grant agreements which is not already discussed in META to keep them confidential.
So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
For example, inheriting the work force of former WMF India programs was one obvious condition to get the grant.
I am looking for an MoU like the one you signed with Goa University ( https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHXxJd1jwTeMnZHNVFyTWVncFU/edit ) which clearly defines that the partnership is for 3 years and that either party can exit with one month's notice.
The duration of the first grant is different from the duration of your working partnership.
Please let me know if such exit clause for your working partnership with WMF exists.
I am aware that WMF wants to keep these things confidential.
But, please understand that CIS is the first organization / working partner of WMF that is entering the FDC process when WMF has no clear guidelines for grant making to non-Wikimedia affiliates.
By keeping things confidential like this, both you and WMF risk losing the trust of the community without which you cannot guarantee successful completion of your goals.
Ravi
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Dhaval,
I agree with your preception.
Both WMF and CIS want to build trust with each other forgetting that the community is the invisible / invincible third partner and stakeholder .
The discussion on CIS's grant proposal has been going on for a month and I have nothing more to add.
I will post my concluding remarks once the FDC recommendation is out.
Ravi
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:16 AM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Both WMF and CIS want to build trust with each other forgetting that the community is the invisible / invincible third partner and stakeholder .
Actually, I think both WMF and CIS are primarily interested in building trust with the community. That is where most energy, effort, and communication are directed: however unsuccessful those efforts. Nice use of invincible, btw.
There is almost no communication or interaction between the WMF and CIS : but when it happens it is brief and to the point; respectful, low-key, and impersonal; focused on accomplishing specific tasks.
There is a far larger amount of communication and interaction between both groups and the community: but with more recriminations and less focus.
SJ
SJ,
//There is a far larger amount of communication and interaction between both groups and the community: but with more recriminations and less focus.//
Please see
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Wikime...
For the question:
What are the programs or activities that did not work for your organization in the past?
2 out of 3 mistakes WMF has chosen to highlight in its so many years of activity directly relates to India.
I hope you can appreciate that the Indian Wikimedia community is not agitated without reason regarding the next mistake in the making.
Ravi
Samuel,
Recriminations haven't been without reason. As repulsive as they are, they've actually been fueled by anarchy of the way things have been taken forward in India by WMF right from the multi-million Rupee "India Programs" - much of it worked out in a very hush-hush manner.
Questions asked by the community members have either been suppressed or ignored.
Many questions still lie unanswered which is a shame.
On 15 May 2014 19:49, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:16 AM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Both WMF and CIS want to build trust with each other forgetting that the community is the invisible / invincible third partner and stakeholder .
Actually, I think both WMF and CIS are primarily interested in building trust with the community. That is where most energy, effort, and communication are directed: however unsuccessful those efforts. Nice use of invincible, btw.
There is almost no communication or interaction between the WMF and CIS : but when it happens it is brief and to the point; respectful, low-key, and impersonal; focused on accomplishing specific tasks.
There is a far larger amount of communication and interaction between both groups and the community: but with more recriminations and less focus.
SJ
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On Wednesday 14 May 2014 08:17 PM, Ravishankar wrote:
So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
Dear Ravi, Hari and Dhaval,
Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other separate MoU with WMF.
Asaf has explained in detail on this list as to why this Grant Agreement is not being shared publicly. I am quoting him here again "We (i.e. WMF) will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share contracts...".
Please see his posting here http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.h...
Best, Vishnu
Dear Vishnu,
There was nothing personal in my email and neither I demanded any justification. What I expressed was my feeling regarding the trust in the 2 entities. Re-reading the quote of Asaf has not changed and I don't think reading it over and over again is ever going to change my perception. Yes, one thing is sure that more I read this quote, more I tend to lose the trust (though i have no trust in it any more).
This quote and few other things relating to that have already been discussed a few times so I am not going to start the discussion over it.
I still maintain my untrust on WMF, which certainly is not going to matter to WMF at all me being a tiny fish in the vast ocean of cor.... ocean of WMF.
Dhaval On 15 May 2014 13:22, "Vishnu" visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 08:17 PM, Ravishankar wrote:
So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
Dear Ravi, Hari and Dhaval,
Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other separate MoU with WMF.
Asaf has explained in detail on this list as to why this Grant Agreement is not being shared publicly. I am quoting him here again "We (i.e. WMF) will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share contracts...".
Please see his posting here http://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.html
Best, Vishnu
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Just to clarify if anyone's confused,
CIS is an independent organization which has submitted this grant request for its A2K program which is again funded by WMF just like Wikimedia India. To further elaborate, Wikimedia India (WMIN) is a volunteer organization while CIS-A2K is a paid organization working on the same goal.
Regards from Mumbai, Karthik Nadar. (+91) 977-360-8862 Secretary, Wikimedia India Chapter. Bangalore, India. http://wiki.wikimedia.in
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:52 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas dsvyas@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Vishnu,
There was nothing personal in my email and neither I demanded any justification. What I expressed was my feeling regarding the trust in the 2 entities. Re-reading the quote of Asaf has not changed and I don't think reading it over and over again is ever going to change my perception. Yes, one thing is sure that more I read this quote, more I tend to lose the trust (though i have no trust in it any more).
This quote and few other things relating to that have already been discussed a few times so I am not going to start the discussion over it.
I still maintain my untrust on WMF, which certainly is not going to matter to WMF at all me being a tiny fish in the vast ocean of cor.... ocean of WMF.
Dhaval On 15 May 2014 13:22, "Vishnu" visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 08:17 PM, Ravishankar wrote:
So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
Dear Ravi, Hari and Dhaval,
Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other separate MoU with WMF.
Asaf has explained in detail on this list as to why this Grant Agreement is not being shared publicly. I am quoting him here again "We (i.e. WMF) will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share contracts...".
Please see his posting here http://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.html
Best, Vishnu
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Vishnu,
//Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other separate MoU with WMF.//
I checked with the WMF Grants team if the grant agreement I have signed with them is confidential.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:PEG/Ravidreams_-_Tamil_Wikimedia...
Their response doesn't hint at legal contracts, confidentiality, bad precedents etc., and instead I get gladly pointed to a sample grant agreement.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Example_project_grant_agreement_f...
The example grant agreement notes as follows:
//This type of grant agreement is used by WMF to make grants to both incorporated nonprofit organizations and nonincorporated groups. Some requirements in the agreement are specific to organizations and other requirements are specific to groups//
I assume CIS comes under nonprofit organizations group as defined above.
You say that CIS has not signed any other contract besides the 2 year grant agreement but Asaf repeatedly uses the word "contract" in his explanation at
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.h...
//"We (i.e. WMF) will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share contracts...".//
Given the context that you are a working partner of WMF, then we have to assume that this grant agreement is your contract defining the terms and conditions of your working relationship with WMF.
So, please let us not use the misleading term grant agreement for this document you have signed with WMF.
Talking about bad precedents, the CIS partnership is itself one such bad precedent which is evident from the fact that WMF won't be repeating this model of partnerships in future.
The only way to gain the trust of the community is to make an exeption and share this contract with the community. If not in public, at least in private communication with other important stakeholders in the community. (Say WMIN and FDC).
If WMF is unable to make this exception, then their exception making CIS eligible for FDC through a board resolution can only be seen as a bias.
It is not the questions you choose to answer that boosts the trust but the questions you choose to ignore and choose to remain silent that reduces the trust.
* What are the terms and conditions of your working relationship with WMF? * What is the exit clause? * Were you asked to work on specific programs like Wikipedia education programs which you sell to naive communities as their needs?
These are some important questions that are left unanswered.
I wouldn't blame CIS. In fact, as you have mentioned in many places, you are way more transparent and responsive than WMF and I genuinely appreciate your effort and patience.
It is sad and ironic that WMF chooses to work this way. WMF is noble in their mission of increasing global south participation but they are failing miserably in executing it.
Ravi
" Talking about bad precedents, the CIS partnership is itself one such bad precedent which is evident from the fact that WMF won't be repeating this model of partnerships in future. " +1+1+1+1000
"The only way to gain the trust of the community is to make an exeption and share this contract with the community. If not in public, at least in private communication with other important stakeholders in the community. (Say WMIN and FDC)." +1
"If WMF is unable to make this exception, then their exception making CIS eligible for FDC through a board resolution can only be seen as a bias." +1 On 17 May 2014 06:39, "Ravishankar" ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Vishnu,
//Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other separate MoU with WMF.//
I checked with the WMF Grants team if the grant agreement I have signed with them is confidential.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:PEG/Ravidreams_-_Tamil_Wikimedia...
Their response doesn't hint at legal contracts, confidentiality, bad precedents etc., and instead I get gladly pointed to a sample grant agreement.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Example_project_grant_agreement_f...
The example grant agreement notes as follows:
//This type of grant agreement is used by WMF to make grants to both incorporated nonprofit organizations and nonincorporated groups. Some requirements in the agreement are specific to organizations and other requirements are specific to groups//
I assume CIS comes under nonprofit organizations group as defined above.
You say that CIS has not signed any other contract besides the 2 year grant agreement but Asaf repeatedly uses the word "contract" in his explanation at
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.h...
//"We (i.e. WMF) will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share contracts...".//
Given the context that you are a working partner of WMF, then we have to assume that this grant agreement is your contract defining the terms and conditions of your working relationship with WMF.
So, please let us not use the misleading term grant agreement for this document you have signed with WMF.
Talking about bad precedents, the CIS partnership is itself one such bad precedent which is evident from the fact that WMF won't be repeating this model of partnerships in future.
The only way to gain the trust of the community is to make an exeption and share this contract with the community. If not in public, at least in private communication with other important stakeholders in the community. (Say WMIN and FDC).
If WMF is unable to make this exception, then their exception making CIS eligible for FDC through a board resolution can only be seen as a bias.
It is not the questions you choose to answer that boosts the trust but the questions you choose to ignore and choose to remain silent that reduces the trust.
- What are the terms and conditions of your working relationship with WMF?
- What is the exit clause?
- Were you asked to work on specific programs like Wikipedia education
programs which you sell to naive communities as their needs?
These are some important questions that are left unanswered.
I wouldn't blame CIS. In fact, as you have mentioned in many places, you are way more transparent and responsive than WMF and I genuinely appreciate your effort and patience.
It is sad and ironic that WMF chooses to work this way. WMF is noble in their mission of increasing global south participation but they are failing miserably in executing it.
Ravi
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Hello Everyone! This mail was an eye opener. Does the A2K team have separate account to show personal contribution and CIS contribution? People like Vishnu withdraw salary worth Rs. 24 Lakhs per annum excluding perks! That's huge amount for doing nothing and then you get the work done from volunteers like us which you show it as your own work! Pavanjana gets 17 lakhs for doing nothing. He only edits if he gets paid. You guys are soon going to become billionaires. Please let me know if there is any such job opening in CIS.
Warm Regards, Jayantilal.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Vishnu visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Hari,
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 02:11 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
[..snip..]
On 14 May 2014 12:53, Vishnu visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.
Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory compliances.
[...]
Noted.
Kindly make the following documents public:
- Information about the AGMs and elections held by CIS for its
governing body for all these years. 2. Latest copy of the Memorandum of Association as filed with the Registrar of Societies, Karnataka (as mandated by Clause 13 of the Karnataka Societies Registration act). 3. The annual filings of CIS with the Registrar of Societies, Karnataka for all these years. 4. The property ownership documents of the premises where CIS office works from. 5. The MoU signed by CIS with WMF. 6. The FCRA certification and compliance related documents.
We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as CIS does not own the building. These are with the owners and we cannot provide them.
As stated on this list many times we cannot share the WMF Grant Agreement (no. 5) without the explicit permission from WMF.
Rest of the documents could be made available. But the admin team is in the middle of audit. Let me consult Sunil (he will return to office mid next week) and get back on this.
Best, Vishnu
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On 14 May 2014 16:20, Vishnu visdaviva@gmail.com wrote:
We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as CIS does not
own the building. These are with the owners and we cannot provide them.
In that case, you could perhaps provide the rental agreement made and signed by CIS with the owner? And perhaps the electricity bill (which specifies the name of the owner)?
As stated on this list many times we cannot share the WMF Grant Agreement (no. 5) without the explicit permission from WMF.
Can a 'Society' do that? Shouldn't that be made public as per the law?
It is sad to know that MoU is being kept secretive and apparently seems to be concealing something on purpose.
Rest of the documents could be made available. But the admin team is in the middle of audit. Let me consult Sunil (he will return to office mid next week) and get back on this.
That would be too late, probably. It is very unfortunate to see a negative leaning response as well.
If everything is in order, surely, there's nothing preventing you from sharing it right away?
On Wednesday 14 May 2014 10:11 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as CIS does not own the building. These are with the owners and we cannot provide them.
In that case, you could perhaps provide the rental agreement made and signed by CIS with the owner? And perhaps the electricity bill (which specifies the name of the owner)?
Dear Hari,
Yes, this should be very much possible.
Cheers, Vishnu
Dear Indian Wikimedians,
Why are we making so much noise on the same issues again and again? We all know the culprits are at WMF who are completely non-transparent.
Even if CIS opens up all their documents and community raises voice, WMF is not going to change their stand.
There is clear discrimination between WMF paid organisation CIS and voluntary organisation WMIN (and the community).
Unless and until Asaf and the GAC gang and FDC gang at WMF gives answers to the Indian wikipedians here, all the concerns raised are going to be a big waste.
I am sure people holding the money power at WMF are going to be completely silent on this. Not sure about the view of the board members and advisors from India. Let the community understand their views too. Also, they should convey the concerns raised by the community on this list and various wikipages to WMF and force them to give answers.
Till that time, WMF will be having fun reading all such mail threads and laughing at all the fools in the community who do their voluntary work.
Oh!! I just remembered that we have so many Indic language wikipedias that are running and evolving even before the WMF had their presence in India, even after CIS do their work or even after WMIN has no money to give to volunteers.
-zZ
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.comwrote:
Fellow Wikimedians,
As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1] The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as outlined on their proposal page.
The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act).
However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next stage.
More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the Staff Assessment discussion page here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T...
I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the right direction.
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Ce... [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/T... [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_Ju...
Thank you,
Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig
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