Right on, Pradeep!
Hence my detailed views on my own responsibility as WikiProject India lead.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com
wrote:
hi,
I also think a similar demarcation is needed in chapter and community functions. Chapter leadership should also not be imposed on the community. I am not saying this is happening, just that such demarcation will help.
I hope the Chapter discusses this overlap as well.
Pradeep Handheld
On 07/03/2012, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.baindur@gmail.com wrote:
Tinu, respectfully, your argument for inability to segregate roles does
not
hold water.
In the mean, cold harsh world of legalese, things like demarcation of roles, disclosures, incompatibility of holding conflicting appointments, having code of ethics are all normal and these instruments in fact are found inadequate and there is now clamour for more oversight not less.
We have to have a code of ethics for the WMF employee - they must remain true to their salt to the organisation which pays them. While it is nice that good people like Shiju are always as helpful as they were as
community
volunteers, the simple fact is that there has been a change of role. We
see
them as paid employees which is a fact. We do not mean that as a
derogatory
term but that is what they chose to be - paid. So volunteer activities
must
only be done in a way that does not conflict with their employer. There
is
a great obligation for them to do this. They cannot and should not act as community because it means the setting up of COI with their employer.
They
owe it to their employer. They cannot hunt with the hare and run with the hounds all at once.
The chapter has volunteer teams - like communication etc. I'm sure it is okay and desirable for Noopur, Shiju etc to be part of them and assuming good faith, I'm sure they are not intending any wrong thing. But COI can easily arise if one is not painstakingly correct and careful. For that reason, I suggest that the WMF employees on any team be demarcated as WMF-IP representatives - so that there is a clear-cut understanding of
who
is a volunteer and who is not and those who are not volunteers are
expected
to be suitably circumspect in their participation when policy is sought
to
formed by discussion in the community - that is the price they have to
pay
for choosing a paid job from WMF.
The way I see it, some people say Chapter is independent from WMF but
that
can only happen if their funding is independent. Whoever pays the piper chooses the tune. WMF is gracious not to interfere much with Chapter, I assume they are not interfering at all, but that is because of their goodness or choice. Should WMF become dictatorial, Chapter has to kowtow
or
face the consequences. So like it or not, chapter/WMF are related organisations which are in the same field with objectives of their own.
COI
will arise, you cant prevent it, only resolve it in good ways by having good policy, good communication and sensible interaction.
We have enough "turbulence" in the system already. Questions like cost effectiveness of WMF driven activities as compared to that of volunteer
led
activities are taken as personal attacks by one side and as righteous crusades by the other. IEP 2 will soon be open us - heaven forbid! The Global South program is just gaining momentum and the amount of
attention,
money, effort being put into India programs is going to increase not reduce. The coming about of the Trust is going to complicate issues - I cant even think how to handle that time-bomb! At the same time, the
demand
is growing; more editors are volunteering. Each Wikipedia is inflating, some explosively, others with bits and spurts,some are sill-born.
In such a backdrop, more prudence and probity are the need of the hour. More transparency, not more laissez faire. More care, not more "chalta
hai".
We have to make it our business to be above board in whatever we do. Imho COI is by far the easiest to solve - there are greater challenges out
there
for us to tackle - things which really matter, like the hundreds of thousands of school children waiting for Offline Wikipedia for Indian Schools!
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:38 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.comwrote:
And to add
"That is why they have two accounts and rather large disclaimers on
their
user pages, demarcating this very difference".
This is only possible in virtual worlds, while editing Wikipedia or writing mails. Not in real life work !
I cannot have one face or voice when I am acting as board member of the chapter and another when I am helping the community. Many of us, live
and
breathe Wikimedia, making it difficult to separate on which capacity
each
of our action is.
You are a long time community member, you were working as Wikimedia Foundation paid contractor for some time, does that mean all the
volunteer
work you would have done before/after or during being a full time and
paid
staff of Foundation cease to have any value ?
-TC
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:14 PM, CherianTinu Abraham <
tinucherian@gmail.com
wrote:
If it matters, if you have read the MoA or the Chapters agreement of
the
Wikimedia India Chapter or most of the chapters, the Foundation and Chapters are independent organizations. Wikimedia Foundation is NOT a parent organization of the Wikimedia India Chapter.
IMHO, It would be only a conflict of interest if I am both a paid employee of the chapter and also a board member of the chapter as well.
The bigger problem is we have lots of work to do, very very little
hands
and too many arm chair advisers. Period.
-TC
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:37 PM, CherianTinu Abraham < tinucherian@gmail.com> wrote:
Everyone is encouraged to volunteer for the chapter , regardless of what his or her day job is. There is nothing that prevents even a foundation staff or contractor even being the board member of the chapter , less alone any volunteer or member. There are several Wikimedia chapters in the world who has paid and full time staff working for them. The Secretary ( volunteer) of the Dutch chapter is also a Foundation Full time Contractor.
Hope that clarifies
I'm not sure what you are talking about above.
The issue with Siebrand is a conflict of interest, as far as I know, they should/would have declared it to their members. Laws in several countries dictate that board of non-profit can not be paid employees
of
their own or parent organizations. Several chapter board members
usually
resign to take up employee position. It used to be that they had to resign to take up any position as staff, but contractor is a relatively new feature with confusing legality, but there are still individuals who
see
the distinction and resign or declare their conflicts upfront. Board members by definition can not be paid employees, this is not my distinction but a legal one. Something I believe all WIkimedia organizations
should
adhere to.
I believe Ashwin explained it much better than I could. If we can demarcate what role someone does something as, it would help a lot.
The
community staff at WMF usually keep 2 accounts to demarcate this clearly, on wiki.
It might not be "practically separate whether we does something as a volunteer...." the distinction is actually quite simple. One that
en.wp,
staff and majority of the community holds- paid vs. non-paid. What one does as an employee is separate from what one does as an employee. That is why they have two accounts and rather large disclaimers on their user
pages,
demarcating this very difference.
Regards Theo
P.S. @achal lol
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