On
Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Praveen Prakash <me.praveen@gmail.com> wrote: K. Then who is Kiruba Shankar? What
was the election process & criteria? How many people involved in
that? Why all these process were hidden? Why even Hindi not informed?
This is what I'm wondering about too! I think this process should be more inclusive and transparent!
Who decided the list of founding members (Signatories) mentioned on this page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA#WIKIMEDIA_INDIA? And how was this list decided? How come Gautam K John (who is self-admittedly not involved with Wikipedia) was invited to be a founding member, but someone like User:Bhadani was not?
Why is some like HPN who has not made even 100 edits in 2009 and 2010 to
English,
Kannada and Sanskrit Wikipedias combined together is at the forefront of
this initiative, but some of the most important contributors from Indic
wikipedias are not even a part of this?
I'm all for a Wikimedia India chapter, but it should be a group of
all the people who are actually part of the Wikipedia community! It should not
be a bunch of politicians that want to be face of Wikipedia to the Indian media without having made any substantial contributions to Wikipedia.
Wikimedia India will receive thousands of rupees in donations. We need trusted people who are representative of the pan-India Wikipedia community to handle it.
If this is a group of people who are meeting in Bangalore for wining and dining, this should be named "Wikimedia Bangalore" chapter, not "Wikipedia INDIA" chapter!
Best regards Shahid
Hello Shahid and Praveen:
Who decided the list of founding members (Signatories) mentioned on this page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA#WIKIMEDIA_INDIA? And how was this list decided? How come Gautam K John (who is self-admittedly not involved with Wikipedia) was invited to be a founding member, but someone like User:Bhadani was not?
It's a fair point you raise. The group arose out of those who had shown a previous communicated interest in being part of a local chapter formation. It wasn't a secretly selected group but one that came together basis a common and communicated cause. As for me, yes, I am not a Wikipedian and I accept that criticism. However, if I may make a point. An organization needs representation not just from within its own community but also from those outside who share the vision and the philosophy.
I'm all for a Wikimedia India chapter, but it should be a group of all the people who are actually part of the Wikipedia community! It should not be a bunch of politicians that want to be face of Wikipedia to the Indian media without having made any substantial contributions to Wikipedia.
Would you say that of everyone who has been so kind as to spare immense amounts of time and put in much effort to get it to this stage?
Wikimedia India will receive thousands of rupees in donations. We need trusted people who are representative of the pan-India Wikipedia community to handle it.
Yes. It will. Which is why we need you and everyone else in the community to hold the organization accountable.
There have been previous efforts at getting this organization started - the need of the hour was getting it up and running. I think it'd be great if we could do that.
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam ________ http://social.prathambooks.org/
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Shahid Akhtar < mohd.shahid_akhtar@rediffmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Praveen Prakash me.praveen@gmail.com wrote:
K. Then who is Kiruba Shankar? What was the election process & criteria?
How many people involved in that? Why all these process were hidden? Why even Hindi not informed?
This is what I'm wondering about too! I think this process should be more inclusive and transparent!
I'm all for a Wikimedia India chapter, but it should be a group of all the people who are actually part of the Wikipedia community! It should not be a bunch of politicians that want to be face of Wikipedia to the Indian media without having made any substantial contributions to Wikipedia.
Wikimedia India will receive thousands of rupees in donations. We need trusted people who are representative of the pan-India Wikipedia community to handle it.
If this is a group of people who are meeting in Bangalore for wining and dining, this should be named "Wikimedia Bangalore" chapter, not "Wikipedia INDIA" chapter!
*My Few paisas.*
As to my understanding after reading the MoA, there are no special privileges to founding members apart from not requiring to "apply for membership".[Authors can clarify if my understanding is not right] I suppose there would be an election after the formation and only the elected persons will have additional privileges than a normal member. So in that sense, who starts it really doesn't matter.
I dont know why people are cribbing its secret / closed group when meta was up all the while. Did anyone make a point to edit any of the meta pages and was it left undiscussed / discarded? No one stopped anyone from doing that.
Trust is not measured in terms of edit count.Showing up on the day and commitment in real world is also required and I guess the people who signed the MoA did that. I agree with pan-India comment but again elections would happen I guess and as i already mentioned "founding members" dont get any extra privileges. Probably some clause can be added to include regional / linugual EC members.I would add that right away to discussion page.
Sorry i take the wine and dine comment too seriously. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:MBL is not about wine and dine. Please go through the pages to see what was going on the meetings.
Shahid,
Please don't see the executive group as an entitlement arising purely out of Wiki contributions. Every Wikipedian puts in volunteer effort to the extent they can, and we don't do it for any special previlege or quid pro quo, do we?
The members you see here are merely who were known to have expressed a willingness to form a chapter during several meetups during Jimmy and Sue's visits. Achal collected such a list from various sources, sent them a questionnaire to understand both their Wiki credo as well as commitment and other experience required to form and bootstrap such an organisation. There were meetings of such a group and then the founding group crystallised. Yes, it's not the most scientific method, but what would be an alternative? Is there any other basis to pick a group for this assignment? A wiki vote would only measure the goodwill inside the respective Wiki. But, doesn't the Wikimedia Chapter guideline explicitly outline the need to have people from outside the community, but have the commitment and shared beliefs, if they bring in organisational expertise? Please reflect on these aspects.
I was part of one earlier attempt to form the India chapter and know of other attempts as well. None of our previous attempts succeeded and we were losing a lot of opportunities to spread Wiki in India. That is why, I agreed to join this kind of a coordinated effort to bootstrap the chapter. This is definitely not the end of the road for the chapter, just the beginning. The views of every committed Wikipedian will be accommodated and they'll have a fair chance to participate in the activities of the chapter. In fact, there are ideas to create city-wise and wiki-wise special interest groups.
And, please have a look at the list of people mentioned and say whether we are a bunch of politicians who can't be trusted. We are a committed set of people, who met every month on a weekend, did conference calls almost every week, and brought out this draft meeting Wikimedia Chapters' Committe recommendations and the Indian Law, not an easy task.
The choice of Bangalore was for two reasons: 1) this is one city which has people from many Indian language Wikipedias and 2) Centre for Internet and Society who's hosting this organisation in the bootstrapping phase is located here. Other than that, this is not Bangalore-centric or English Wiki-centric. There's enough diversity in the group if you care to observe.
I hope you'll understand the points.
Regards, Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted." - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
________________________________ From: Shahid Akhtar mohd.shahid_akhtar@rediffmail.com To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 12:47:04 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Praveen Prakash me.praveen@gmail.com wrote:
K. Then who is Kiruba Shankar? What
was the election process & criteria? How many people involved in that? Why all these process were hidden? Why even Hindi not informed?
This is what I'm wondering about too! I think this process should be more inclusive and transparent!
Who decided the list of founding members (Signatories) mentioned on this page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA#WIKIMEDIA_INDIA? And how was this list decided? How come Gautam K John (who is self-admittedly not involved with Wikipedia) was invited to be a founding member, but someone like User:Bhadani was not?
Why is some like HPN who has not made even 100 edits in 2009 and 2010 to English, Kannada and Sanskrit Wikipedias combined together is at the forefront of this initiative, but some of the most important contributors from Indic wikipedias are not even a part of this?
I'm all for a Wikimedia India chapter, but it should be a group of all the people who are actually part of the Wikipedia community! It should not be a bunch of politicians that want to be face of Wikipedia to the Indian media without having made any substantial contributions to Wikipedia.
Wikimedia India will receive thousands of rupees in donations. We need trusted people who are representative of the pan-India Wikipedia community to handle it.
If this is a group of people who are meeting in Bangalore for wining and dining, this should be named "Wikimedia Bangalore" chapter, not "Wikipedia INDIA" chapter!
Best regards Shahid
Can we have a IRC on this topic ? Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
On 12 March 2010 13:51, BalaSundaraRaman sundarbecse@yahoo.com wrote:
Shahid,
Please don't see the executive group as an entitlement arising purely out of Wiki contributions. Every Wikipedian puts in volunteer effort to the extent they can, and we don't do it for any special previlege or quid pro quo, do we?
The members you see here are merely who were known to have expressed a willingness to form a chapter during several meetups during Jimmy and Sue's visits. Achal collected such a list from various sources, sent them a questionnaire to understand both their Wiki credo as well as commitment and other experience required to form and bootstrap such an organisation. There were meetings of such a group and then the founding group crystallised. Yes, it's not the most scientific method, but what would be an alternative? Is there any other basis to pick a group for this assignment? A wiki vote would only measure the goodwill inside the respective Wiki. But, doesn't the Wikimedia Chapter guideline explicitly outline the need to have people from outside the community, but have the commitment and shared beliefs, if they bring in organisational expertise? Please reflect on these aspects.
I was part of one earlier attempt to form the India chapter and know of other attempts as well. None of our previous attempts succeeded and we were losing a lot of opportunities to spread Wiki in India. That is why, I agreed to join this kind of a coordinated effort to bootstrap the chapter. This is definitely not the end of the road for the chapter, just the beginning. The views of every committed Wikipedian will be accommodated and they'll have a fair chance to participate in the activities of the chapter. In fact, there are ideas to create city-wise and wiki-wise special interest groups.
And, please have a look at the list of people mentioned and say whether we are a bunch of politicians who can't be trusted. We are a committed set of people, who met every month on a weekend, did conference calls almost every week, and brought out this draft meeting Wikimedia Chapters' Committe recommendations and the Indian Law, not an easy task.
The choice of Bangalore was for two reasons: 1) this is one city which has people from many Indian language Wikipedias and 2) Centre for Internet and Society who's hosting this organisation in the bootstrapping phase is located here. Other than that, this is not Bangalore-centric or English Wiki-centric. There's enough diversity in the group if you care to observe.
I hope you'll understand the points.
Regards, Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
*From:* Shahid Akhtar mohd.shahid_akhtar@rediffmail.com
*To:* wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Fri, March 12, 2010 12:47:04 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Praveen Prakash me.praveen@gmail.com wrote:
K. Then who is Kiruba Shankar? What was the election process & criteria? How many people involved in that? Why all these process were hidden? Why even Hindi not informed?
This is what I'm wondering about too! I think this process should be more inclusive and transparent!
Who decided the list of founding members (Signatories) mentioned on this page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA#WIKIMEDIA_INDIA? And how was this list decided? How come Gautam K John (who is self-admittedly not involved with Wikipedia) was invited to be a founding member, but someone like User:Bhadani was not?
Why is some like HPN who has not made even 100 edits in 2009 and 2010 to English, Kannada and Sanskrit Wikipedias combined together is at the forefront of this initiative, but some of the most important contributors from Indic wikipedias are not even a part of this?
I'm all for a Wikimedia India chapter, but it should be a group of all the people who are actually part of the Wikipedia community! It should not be a bunch of politicians that want to be face of Wikipedia to the Indian media without having made any substantial contributions to Wikipedia.
Wikimedia India will receive thousands of rupees in donations. We need trusted people who are representative of the pan-India Wikipedia community to handle it.
If this is a group of people who are meeting in Bangalore for wining and dining, this should be named "Wikimedia Bangalore" chapter, not "Wikipedia INDIA" chapter!
Best regards Shahid
http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatureline.htm@Middle?
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Thatz a great idea. Let us talk ! Please try to attend both the IRC chat today and Bangalore Meetup tommorrow.
The primary discussion will be regarding WikiMedia India chapter formation . Please maintain the etiquettes of the discussion.
- Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com wrote:
Can we have a IRC on this topic ? Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), IST Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
Hi,
I am personally opposed to IRC both on principle and practical considerations. On principle, IRC chat is lost to posterity and future arguments cannot be resolved - as far as my understanding goes, Meta is and has to be the only forum for discussions for the Chapters Committee to take consideration. An additional advantage with Meta is that the discussions need not be synchronic, thus naturally overcoming the barriers of time and geography. Practically speaking, I work from an office computer on which IRC has been disabled and I do not have admin privileges.
@Tinu: Is the discussion in Bangalore meet-up tomorrow going to be with respect to WikiMedia India chapter formation? What exactly would be the agenda? It would help to have an agenda so that we can all come prepared. As far as I understand, the discussion on MoA of the proposed chapter ends EoD Saturday, that is today.
Cheers, Srinivas Gunta. Unified login across all Wikimedia projects: Gurubrahma
________________________________ From: CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sat, 13 March, 2010 8:45:45 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
Thatz a great idea. Let us talk ! Please try to attend both the IRC chat today and Bangalore Meetup tommorrow.
The primary discussion will be regarding WikiMedia India chapter formation . Please maintain the etiquettes of the discussion.
- Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com wrote:
Can we have a IRC on this topic ?
Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), IST Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/
Personally I think we must have maximum discussion whether it through mailing list, IRC channel, Bangalore or Kerala meetups. Till now in the mailing list we had only discussion about the signatories part. I hope in the IRC we will have more topics to discuss which are in http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_India/MoA
On 13 March 2010 09:23, guru brahma wikibra@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Hi,
I am personally opposed to IRC both on principle and practical considerations. On principle, IRC chat is lost to posterity and future arguments cannot be resolved - as far as my understanding goes, Meta is and has to be the only forum for discussions for the Chapters Committee to take consideration. An additional advantage with Meta is that the discussions need not be synchronic, thus naturally overcoming the barriers of time and geography. Practically speaking, I work from an office computer on which IRC has been disabled and I do not have admin privileges.
@Tinu: Is the discussion in Bangalore meet-up tomorrow going to be with respect to WikiMedia India chapter formation? What exactly would be the agenda? It would help to have an agenda so that we can all come prepared. As far as I understand, the discussion on MoA of the proposed chapter ends EoD Saturday, that is today.
Cheers, Srinivas Gunta. Unified login across all Wikimedia projects: Gurubrahma
*From:* CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com
*To:* wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Sat, 13 March, 2010 8:45:45 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
Thatz a great idea. Let us talk ! Please try to attend both the IRC chat today and Bangalore Meetup tommorrow.
The primary discussion will be regarding WikiMedia India chapter formation . Please maintain the etiquettes of the discussion.
- Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.comwrote:
Can we have a IRC on this topic ? Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), IST
Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_ie8_new/*http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ .
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
One more thing ... Have we forwarded the draft of MoA to all Indic language wikipedia groups ? If not, we must extend the date for comments.
PS: Draft MoA was forwarded to ml and sa wikigroups today.
On 13 March 2010 10:12, Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com wrote:
Personally I think we must have maximum discussion whether it through mailing list, IRC channel, Bangalore or Kerala meetups. Till now in the mailing list we had only discussion about the signatories part. I hope in the IRC we will have more topics to discuss which are in http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_India/MoA
On 13 March 2010 09:23, guru brahma wikibra@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Hi,
I am personally opposed to IRC both on principle and practical considerations. On principle, IRC chat is lost to posterity and future arguments cannot be resolved - as far as my understanding goes, Meta is and has to be the only forum for discussions for the Chapters Committee to take consideration. An additional advantage with Meta is that the discussions need not be synchronic, thus naturally overcoming the barriers of time and geography. Practically speaking, I work from an office computer on which IRC has been disabled and I do not have admin privileges.
@Tinu: Is the discussion in Bangalore meet-up tomorrow going to be with respect to WikiMedia India chapter formation? What exactly would be the agenda? It would help to have an agenda so that we can all come prepared. As far as I understand, the discussion on MoA of the proposed chapter ends EoD Saturday, that is today.
Cheers, Srinivas Gunta. Unified login across all Wikimedia projects: Gurubrahma
*From:* CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com
*To:* wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Sat, 13 March, 2010 8:45:45 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
Thatz a great idea. Let us talk ! Please try to attend both the IRC chat today and Bangalore Meetup tommorrow.
The primary discussion will be regarding WikiMedia India chapter formation . Please maintain the etiquettes of the discussion.
- Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.comwrote:
Can we have a IRC on this topic ? Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), IST
Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_ie8_new/*http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ .
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Naveen Francis
I posted a notice in Tamil Wiki Village Pump, Arjun and Gurubrahma have posted in Telugu mailing lists, and Arun has posted in the English Wiki Indian noticeboard. Hope other language wikipedians would also be following this thread
- Sundar "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted." - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
________________________________ From: Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 11:48:48 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
One more thing ... Have we forwarded the draft of MoA to all Indic language wikipedia groups ? If not, we must extend the date for comments.
PS: Draft MoA was forwarded to ml and sa wikigroups today.
On 13 March 2010 10:12, Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com wrote:
Personally I think we must have maximum discussion whether it through mailing list, IRC channel, Bangalore or Kerala meetups. Till now in the mailing list we had only discussion about the signatories part. I hope in the IRC we will have more topics to discuss which are in http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_India/MoA
On 13 March 2010 09:23, guru brahma wikibra@yahoo.co.in wrote:
Hi,
I am personally opposed to IRC both on principle and practical considerations. On principle, IRC chat is lost to posterity and future arguments cannot be resolved - as far as my understanding goes, Meta is and has to be the only forum for discussions for the Chapters Committee to take consideration. An additional advantage with Meta is that the discussions need not be synchronic, thus naturally overcoming the barriers of time and geography. Practically speaking, I work from an office computer on which IRC has been disabled and I do not have admin privileges.
@Tinu: Is the discussion in Bangalore meet-up tomorrow going to be with respect to WikiMedia India chapter formation? What exactly would be the agenda? It would help to have an agenda so that we can all come prepared. As far as I understand, the discussion on MoA of the proposed chapter ends EoD Saturday, that is today.
Cheers, Srinivas Gunta. Unified login across all Wikimedia projects: Gurubrahma
________________________________ From: CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sat, 13 March, 2010 8:45:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
Thatz a great idea. Let us talk ! Please try to attend both the IRC chat today and Bangalore Meetup tommorrow.
The primary discussion will be regarding WikiMedia India chapter formation . Please maintain the etiquettes of the discussion.
- Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com wrote:
Can we have a IRC on this topic ?
Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), IST
Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!.
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Naveen Francis
Hi Naveen,
Good idea. However, I may not be online at that time. Will catch up during tomorrow's meetup.
- Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted." - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
________________________________ From: Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 7:37:44 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
Can we have a IRC on this topic ? Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
On 12 March 2010 13:51, BalaSundaraRaman sundarbecse@yahoo.com wrote:
Shahid,
Please don't see the executive group as an entitlement arising purely out of Wiki contributions. Every Wikipedian puts in volunteer effort to the extent they can, and we don't do it for any special previlege or quid pro quo, do we?
The members you see here are merely who were known to have expressed a willingness to form a chapter during several meetups during Jimmy and Sue's visits. Achal collected such a list from various sources, sent them a questionnaire to understand both their Wiki credo as well as commitment and other experience required to form and bootstrap such an organisation. There were meetings of such a group and then the founding group crystallised. Yes, it's not the most scientific method, but what would be an alternative? Is there any other basis to pick a group for this assignment? A wiki vote would only measure the goodwill inside the respective Wiki. But, doesn't the Wikimedia Chapter guideline explicitly outline the need to have people from outside the community, but have the commitment and shared beliefs, if they bring in organisational expertise? Please reflect on these aspects.
I was part of one earlier attempt to form the India chapter and know of other attempts as well. None of our previous attempts succeeded and we were losing a lot of opportunities to spread Wiki in India. That is why, I agreed to join this kind of a coordinated effort to bootstrap the chapter. This is definitely not the end of the road for the chapter, just the beginning. The views of every committed Wikipedian will be accommodated and they'll have a fair chance to participate in the activities of the chapter. In fact, there are ideas to create city-wise and wiki-wise special interest groups.
And, please have a look at the list of people mentioned and say whether we are a bunch of politicians who can't be trusted. We are a committed set of people, who met every month on a weekend, did conference calls almost every week, and brought out this draft meeting Wikimedia Chapters' Committe recommendations and the Indian Law, not an easy task.
The choice of Bangalore was for two reasons: 1) this is one city which has people from many Indian language Wikipedias and 2) Centre for Internet and Society who's hosting this organisation in the bootstrapping phase is located here. Other than that, this is not Bangalore-centric or English Wiki-centric. There's enough diversity in the group if you care to observe.
I hope you'll understand the points.
Regards, Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
________________________________ From: Shahid Akhtar mohd.shahid_akhtar@rediffmail.com
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 12:47:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Praveen Prakash me.praveen@gmail.com wrote:
K. Then who is Kiruba Shankar? What was the election process & criteria? How many people involved in that? Why all these process were hidden? Why even Hindi not informed?
This is what I'm wondering about too! I think this process should be more inclusive and transparent!
Who decided the list of founding members (Signatories) mentioned on this page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA#WIKIMEDIA_INDIA? And how was this list decided? How come Gautam K John (who is self-admittedly not involved with Wikipedia) was invited to be a founding member, but someone like User:Bhadani was not?
Why is some like HPN who has not made even 100 edits in 2009 and 2010 to English, Kannada and Sanskrit Wikipedias combined together is at the forefront of this initiative, but some of the most important contributors from Indic wikipedias are not even a part of this?
I'm all for a Wikimedia India chapter, but it should be a group of all the people who are actually part of the Wikipedia community! It should not be a bunch of politicians that want to be face of Wikipedia to the Indian media without having made any substantial contributions to Wikipedia.
Wikimedia India will receive thousands of rupees in donations. We need trusted people who are representative of the pan-India Wikipedia community to handle it.
If this is a group of people who are meeting in Bangalore for wining and dining, this should be named "Wikimedia Bangalore" chapter, not "Wikipedia INDIA" chapter!
Best regards Shahid
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
I will join.
Thanks Arjun
2010/3/13 Naveen Francis naveenpf@gmail.com
Can we have a IRC on this topic ? Proposed time : Today, 8 pm (March 13, 2010), Join on : irc://irc.freenode.org/wikimedia-in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India#IRC
Thanks, Naveen Francis
On 12 March 2010 13:51, BalaSundaraRaman sundarbecse@yahoo.com wrote:
Shahid,
Please don't see the executive group as an entitlement arising purely out of Wiki contributions. Every Wikipedian puts in volunteer effort to the extent they can, and we don't do it for any special previlege or quid pro quo, do we?
The members you see here are merely who were known to have expressed a willingness to form a chapter during several meetups during Jimmy and Sue's visits. Achal collected such a list from various sources, sent them a questionnaire to understand both their Wiki credo as well as commitment and other experience required to form and bootstrap such an organisation. There were meetings of such a group and then the founding group crystallised. Yes, it's not the most scientific method, but what would be an alternative? Is there any other basis to pick a group for this assignment? A wiki vote would only measure the goodwill inside the respective Wiki. But, doesn't the Wikimedia Chapter guideline explicitly outline the need to have people from outside the community, but have the commitment and shared beliefs, if they bring in organisational expertise? Please reflect on these aspects.
I was part of one earlier attempt to form the India chapter and know of other attempts as well. None of our previous attempts succeeded and we were losing a lot of opportunities to spread Wiki in India. That is why, I agreed to join this kind of a coordinated effort to bootstrap the chapter. This is definitely not the end of the road for the chapter, just the beginning. The views of every committed Wikipedian will be accommodated and they'll have a fair chance to participate in the activities of the chapter. In fact, there are ideas to create city-wise and wiki-wise special interest groups.
And, please have a look at the list of people mentioned and say whether we are a bunch of politicians who can't be trusted. We are a committed set of people, who met every month on a weekend, did conference calls almost every week, and brought out this draft meeting Wikimedia Chapters' Committe recommendations and the Indian Law, not an easy task.
The choice of Bangalore was for two reasons: 1) this is one city which has people from many Indian language Wikipedias and 2) Centre for Internet and Society who's hosting this organisation in the bootstrapping phase is located here. Other than that, this is not Bangalore-centric or English Wiki-centric. There's enough diversity in the group if you care to observe.
I hope you'll understand the points.
Regards, Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
*From:* Shahid Akhtar mohd.shahid_akhtar@rediffmail.com
*To:* wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Fri, March 12, 2010 12:47:04 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia India Chapter
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Praveen Prakash me.praveen@gmail.com wrote:
K. Then who is Kiruba Shankar? What was the election process & criteria? How many people involved in that? Why all these process were hidden? Why even Hindi not informed?
This is what I'm wondering about too! I think this process should be more inclusive and transparent!
Who decided the list of founding members (Signatories) mentioned on this page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA#WIKIMEDIA_INDIA? And how was this list decided? How come Gautam K John (who is self-admittedly not involved with Wikipedia) was invited to be a founding member, but someone like User:Bhadani was not?
Why is some like HPN who has not made even 100 edits in 2009 and 2010 to English, Kannada and Sanskrit Wikipedias combined together is at the forefront of this initiative, but some of the most important contributors from Indic wikipedias are not even a part of this?
I'm all for a Wikimedia India chapter, but it should be a group of all the people who are actually part of the Wikipedia community! It should not be a bunch of politicians that want to be face of Wikipedia to the Indian media without having made any substantial contributions to Wikipedia.
Wikimedia India will receive thousands of rupees in donations. We need trusted people who are representative of the pan-India Wikipedia community to handle it.
If this is a group of people who are meeting in Bangalore for wining and dining, this should be named "Wikimedia Bangalore" chapter, not "Wikipedia INDIA" chapter!
Best regards Shahid
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On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Shahid Akhtar < mohd.shahid_akhtar@rediffmail.com> wrote:
Why is some like HPN who has not made even 100 edits in 2009 and 2010 to English, Kannada and Sanskrit Wikipedias combined together is at the forefront of this initiative, but some of the most important contributors from Indic wikipedias are not even a part of this?
While responses from many people to your email must have cleared up that the edit count wasn't the criterion for the initial crew, what is the sanctity in mentioning edit counts from just the last one year?
If you look carefully my edit counts on several projects and overall contribution have been more substantial than the convenient numbers you have projected out of the last one year. I've been involved in the projects for last 6 years now, with contribution in various roles - including one as a member at Chapters committee. The barn stars, the press quotes of events I've organized, the articles I've written on media and the projects I've been involved in surrounding wiki speak of my work here.
I would therefore be compelled to ask - do the edit counts (whether present or past ones irrespective of whether it is substantial or not) solely speak of all the Wiki related activity I've spent time on? Does it speak of the innumerable hours I've spent as part of the EC? Does it speak of the countless hours I've spent on improving Kannada Wikipedia and related projects?
Many people in the community know me by my work surrounding Kannada language projects, in bringing together people from Indian language projects and on Unicode, Indic Computing apart from advocacy. If there was one time I have not really been in the forefront of process of setting up a chapter - that would be this time. I have coordinated all the earlier attempts except the last one (although I was very much part of the last one as well). Please dig up information before maligning any contributor with convenient split up of stats on a public mailing list or before resorting to a personal attack. You should know better to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks
The last few years I've been more active in Wiki work other actual editing. I believe that it is as important to the growth of the community as is the activity that can be measured by stats on the projects. It is important that we start giving importance to every role that contributes to the community other than just the scalable activity in terms of edits.
Friends, Let us avoid this mud-slinging of each other on the mailing list. I think we all agree for one thing - Wikimedia India Chapter has to be formed. As Achal said, the "so called founding members" have no extra privileges, they just volunteered to set up the chapter after all the previous attempts. Everyone including you and me are free to join, once the "formalities" are over. Give suggestions on the MoA/Chapter and how it can be improved. That is the immediate need.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig hpnadig@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Shahid Akhtar < mohd.shahid_akhtar@rediffmail.com> wrote:
wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org