On Aug 5, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Bodhisattwa Mandal
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I was expecting a reply from WMIN.
Thanks,
Bodhisattwa
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 14:25 Abhinav srivastava,
<abhinav619(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Bodhisattva,
Please allow me to respond to your confusions. Responses in line.
Again, as stated in my first mail on the thread, you are making too many value-judgments
with un-friendly tone.
On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:27 PM Bodhisattwa
Mandal <bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Yohann,
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single word.
My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make it clear in my
previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective.
1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the main
program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups, there happens to be a
steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one steward, who have not received
scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own money to
attend the meeting. Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not
eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can you please
provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship would be provided to
attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, everyone will find someone to invite
themselves to attend informal meetups in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from
next year.
If you check the agenda section, WMIN President gave a talk on Conflict Resolution, this
is followed my summary in the notes. When there are so many conflicts in Wikimedia
communities across the globle, someone from India is invited to put this theories towards
resolution. This is a welcome step. From Notes to his Summary Talk to how this will be
carried forward for future course, every thing is documented.
He did not simply attend the meeting as a participant or representing Wikimedia India, he
was a lead on the 3rd point of the Agenda which is Conflcit Resolution. Everything on it
is documented.
2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of chairpersons meeting
of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a proof that he has attended that
meeting. So, I have doubt that he was invited at all because there is no point to invite
someone who didn't attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you
provide the documentation of his invitation?
[1]
https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018
I am sure when Wikimedia India President is invited to give a talk on a defined
Agenda, 'Conflict Resolution' and CIS-A2K is approving his request, he must on
record have recieved an invitation.
It cannot be that without an invitation someone would travel so far. Also, please
remember, unlike WMF staff or CIS-A2K, when someone from Wikimedia India has to travel, he
has to forgoe his personal paid holidays. WMF staff or CIS-A2K travel abroad calling it
'On Work'.
3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he
was invited, already there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who
went there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation is not
at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the informal meeting of
chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they considered unfit or incapable to attend
the meeting, if yes, why so?
This is about merit of the particular individual. This has nothing to do with the
other Two EC.
Secondly, stating this again, he didn't travel simply to attend the meeting, he was
given a set agenda to speak that is 'Conflict Resolution'. It was a subject of
one's personal merit on which the organising committee invited him, this cannot be
passed to other members of the same affiliate.
4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are
not the same. Whereas Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers.
So, sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a Wikimedia
volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the conference, is utter
misuse of power and money. Can you please explain that?
I do not think that if Wikimedia India President didn't go someone else would
have been promoted. CIS-A2K should give a clarification on this.
Simply stating it once again, he didn't just travel to attend the conference, he was
a speaker. This is entirely a different subject.
5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was
supposed to attend the conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him,
because Rahul is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?
In response to statement 4.
I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I hope this mail
won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it personally.
Waiting for your detailed reply,
Bodhisattwa
Additional Comment : When someone India is selected or rather invited to give talk in an
attempt to resolve the global problem. For me, this is a welcome step.
I am sorry but again I find you to harsh towards the India Chapter. This is my personal
observation.
Abhinav
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas,
<yohannvt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
(sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule)
Hi Bodhi
I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I can give you an
excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions.
//In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin
Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to
Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda
in the link below.
https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2…
With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they
accepted his proposal. //
Regards,
Yohann Thomas
Secretary
Wikimedia India
> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Yohann,
>
> Thanks for your mail.
>
> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many
participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the meeting on behalf of
the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the meeting on behalf of Wikipedia
Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the
meeting as a President of any affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate
is present in that conference, he can represent the affiliate.
>
> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, were
present and one of them could have attended the meeting on behalf of WMIN. Can you please
explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge amount of donation money to send WMIN president
to attend a meeting, where his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these
two members unfit to attend such meeting?
>
> Waiting for your reply,
> Bodhisattwa
>
>
> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" <yohannvt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Bodhi & other community members
>
> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India is run by 7
board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any topic, requires inputs
from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers & have their own professional lives
apart from Wikimedia India, there was a delay in drafting a reply.
>
> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run organisation. There
are board members, who discharge their duties towards the chapter, as well as serve their
regional communities (as well as user groups) in their volunteer roles.
>
> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't financially
independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with regulatory
hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA.
>
> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles in community,
affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to attend different
conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around the world.
> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin
Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to
Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda
in the link below.
>
>
https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2…
>
> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip &
they accepted his proposal.
>
> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to appreciate
& acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation to the chapter.
Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his term expired, he still
continues to support the chapter on different issues, inspite of us still battling with
all our regulatory hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the
chapter is going through a difficult time.
>
> Regards,
> Yohann Thomas
> Secretary
> Wikimedia India
>
> ----
>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal,
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape Town
without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why was he sent to the
conference depriving other community members from India who were in the waiting list.
>>
>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The meeting
doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and already there were 2
EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting.
>>
>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bodhisattwa
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