The default page title is its name. Is there a way to change that? For example, you might have a page named "VPNSetup", but then want the title (i.e., the top heading) to be "How to Set up a VPN Network".
I tried using a single = (e.g., "=How to Set up a VPN Network=") but that just adds it as an additional heading, and doesn't replace the title.
On Wed, Sep 28, 2005 at 11:15:04AM -0700, Dave Brewster wrote:
The default page title is its name. Is there a way to change that? For example, you might have a page named "VPNSetup", but then want the title (i.e., the top heading) to be "How to Set up a VPN Network".
I tried using a single = (e.g., "=How to Set up a VPN Network=") but that just adds it as an additional heading, and doesn't replace the title.
Can't you just use the html <haead><title>my title</title></head> tags?
don't know the mediawiki pseudo characters for the above - if they exist.
ben.
Dave Brewster wrote:
The default page title is its name. Is there a way to change that? For example, you might have a page named "VPNSetup", but then want the title (i.e., the top heading) to be "How to Set up a VPN Network".
A page title *is* its name. This is one of the fundamental parts of what makes a wiki a wiki -- simple consistent linking where the link is the name is the title.
If you want something else, you probably need some other kind of tool than a wiki.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Brion Vibber wrote:
Dave Brewster wrote:
The default page title is its name. Is there a way to change that? For example, you might have a page named "VPNSetup", but then want the title (i.e., the top heading) to be "How to Set up a VPN Network".
A page title *is* its name. This is one of the fundamental parts of what makes a wiki a wiki -- simple consistent linking where the link is the name is the title.
If you want something else, you probably need some other kind of tool than a wiki.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
I believe the following is a case for a title that is different then the page name. In the bird area of Wikipedia the page name for each bird is the common name of the bird. Common names are different in various parts of the world but they still refer to the same bird so there shouldn't be separate pages for it. North Americans want to see Common Loon while in the UK they want to see Great Northern Diver and not only in the title but also in the content. And no, common names shouldn't be made universal by making them correspond to the binomial (scientific) name as there is great value in keeping them separate and meaningful to a local user. This value is described in the "Common names" page in Wikipedia. Currently this is treated by including some text like "This bird is also known as the Common Loon." That does not make it very easy to use for those in other parts of the world.
Tim Whitehouse wrote:
I believe the following is a case for a title that is different then the page name. In the bird area of Wikipedia the page name for each bird is the common name of the bird. Common names are different in various parts of the world but they still refer to the same bird so there shouldn't be separate pages for it. North Americans want to see Common Loon while in the UK they want to see Great Northern Diver and not only in the title but also in the content. And no, common names shouldn't be made universal by making them correspond to the binomial (scientific) name as there is great value in keeping them separate and meaningful to a local user. This value is described in the "Common names" page in Wikipedia. Currently this is treated by including some text like "This bird is also known as the Common Loon." That does not make it very easy to use for those in other parts of the world.
Sounds to me more like a good case for redirect pages.
Hínandil
Tim Whitehouse wrote:
I believe the following is a case for a title that is different then the page name. In the bird area of Wikipedia the page name for each bird is the common name of the bird. Common names are different in various parts of the world but they still refer to the same bird so there shouldn't be separate pages for it. North Americans want to see Common Loon while in the UK they want to see Great Northern Diver and not only in the title but also in the content.
If you really, really need to do this you can do it with templates. As you mention just above, the title isn't the relevant part since you want to change the content too!
At [[Common Loon]]: {{Blabla|Common Loon}}
At [[Great Northern Diver]]: {{Blabla|Great Northern Diver}}
At [[Template:Blabla]]: The '''{{{1}}}''' is a bla bla bla bla
Of course it would make more sense to use the scientific names and list various common names in the article.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
On 28/09/05, Tim Whitehouse whitehousetim@rgv.rr.com wrote:
I believe the following is a case for a title that is different then the page name. In the bird area of Wikipedia the page name for each bird is the common name of the bird. Common names are different in various parts of the world but they still refer to the same bird so there shouldn't be separate pages for it. North Americans want to see Common Loon while in the UK they want to see Great Northern Diver and not only in the title but also in the content.
This came up in the recent - rather interminable - "English English" threads on Wikipedia-l (see the archives, if you've got plenty of time on your hands).
There are two drawbacks to using redirects as we currently do: 1) they imply that one title (the target) is "better" than the other (the redirect), by showing it in large print at the top of the page 2) they don't alter other occurences through the text
A template mechanism (either by convention, as described by Brion, or a more specific feature in the software) that replaces the headword wherever it occurs seems attractive, until you realise that this would still not solve the underlying problem - that there are multiple formal dialects of English. For instance, a page stating that "the Common Loon is fond of aubergines" would be incorrect [linguistically] whoever read it, because it mixes two dialects; if the "Common Loon" part were to be automatically "translated", the "aubergine" ("eggplant") would need to be translated as well.
And no, common names shouldn't be made universal by making them correspond to the binomial (scientific) name as there is great value in keeping them separate and meaningful to a local user.
I'm not sure I understand your precise point here, but binomial names would solve the problem of one name being given implied primacy if it weren't for the fact that many pages cover more than one similar species, quite apart from articles which face this issue outside the realm of biology.
It's a tough issue, really, and one for which I've yet to see a really adequate solution suggested - an automatic "translator"/converter might be great, but I'm not personally convinced it's feasible.
-- Rowan Collins BSc [IMSoP]
Rowan Collins wrote:
A template mechanism (either by convention, as described by Brion, or a more specific feature in the software) that replaces the headword wherever it occurs seems attractive, until you realise that this would still not solve the underlying problem - that there are multiple formal dialects of English. For instance, a page stating that "the Common Loon is fond of aubergines" would be incorrect [linguistically] whoever read it, because it mixes two dialects; if the "Common Loon" part were to be automatically "translated", the "aubergine" ("eggplant") would need to be translated as well.
...
It's a tough issue, really, and one for which I've yet to see a really adequate solution suggested - an automatic "translator"/converter might be great, but I'm not personally convinced it's feasible.
-- Rowan Collins BSc [IMSoP]
Thanks for all the ideas, I especially like the translator/converter idea. The dialect used plus a table of conversions would need to be stored somewhere or passed to the page on the request. I think it could be done but it's more work then I'm up to right now. I haven't used the redirects yet but I'll try that.
At first I didn't like the template solution for what I'm doing but I kept finding ways around most of my objections. Having separate pages fixes the page titles and the content is kept on a single page using the binomial name. My main objection was how the editor gets to the template page where the content is but that was helped by having sections and also placing a link in the template to itself, like [[Gavia stellata]]. Still though if another bird like the Red-throated Loon is mentioned in the text I don't see a way for it to be translated to the common name for another area like the UK.
Tim Whitehouse wrote:
Rowan Collins wrote:
A template mechanism (either by convention, as described by Brion, or a more specific feature in the software) that replaces the headword wherever it occurs seems attractive, until you realise that this would still not solve the underlying problem - that there are multiple formal dialects of English. For instance, a page stating that "the Common Loon is fond of aubergines" would be incorrect [linguistically] whoever read it, because it mixes two dialects; if the "Common Loon" part were to be automatically "translated", the "aubergine" ("eggplant") would need to be translated as well.
...
It's a tough issue, really, and one for which I've yet to see a really adequate solution suggested - an automatic "translator"/converter might be great, but I'm not personally convinced it's feasible.
-- Rowan Collins BSc [IMSoP]
Thanks for all the ideas, I especially like the translator/converter idea. The dialect used plus a table of conversions would need to be stored somewhere or passed to the page on the request. I think it could be done but it's more work then I'm up to right now. I haven't used the redirects yet but I'll try that.
At first I didn't like the template solution for what I'm doing but I kept finding ways around most of my objections. Having separate pages fixes the page titles and the content is kept on a single page using the binomial name. My main objection was how the editor gets to the template page where the content is but that was helped by having sections and also placing a link in the template to itself, like [[Gavia stellata]]. Still though if another bird like the Red-throated Loon is mentioned in the text I don't see a way for it to be translated to the common name for another area like the UK.
It was too obvious I guess. I added template parameters for each item that needed translated. It's not perfect but I think it will work well for me.
Try creating a link to [[How to Set Up a Virtual Private Network]] on one of your pages, and creating the page there; or moving the page to that title.
Rob Church
On 28/09/05, Dave Brewster dbrewster@guidewire.com wrote:
The default page title is its name. Is there a way to change that? For example, you might have a page named "VPNSetup", but then want the title (i.e., the top heading) to be "How to Set up a VPN Network".
I tried using a single = (e.g., "=How to Set up a VPN Network=") but that just adds it as an additional heading, and doesn't replace the title.
-- Dave Brewster dbrewster@guidewire.com _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
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