Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

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wiki＠avenarius.sk

1 Aug 2006 1 Aug '06

8:22 p.m.

Hello to the list, our school is trying to integrate wiki pages into our site, and apparently we'll be the first school in this country (Slovakia) to do that. We were already asked to present the wiki integration at a government-sponsored conference to be held next year. Everything seems to be working fine except for 2 serious problems, and we would appreciate if anyone could help us in resolving them. We have MediaWiki 1.6.8 / PHP 4.4.1 / MySQL 4.1.19 installed. /// ISSUE NO. 1: Thumbnails creation does not work. We also have phpBB (with the Attachments mod) and Coppermine installed elsewhere on the site, both (I believe) relying on ImageMagick, and in those two apps, thumbnails are created without a hitch. Here is our Sandbox: http://tinyurl.com/mb7cp The syntax is correct, but no thumbnail is created. Replacing "Image" with the local language equivalent does not help either. We tried to follow the advice on the following webpages but it did not help us: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Image_thumbnailing http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2004-October/001941.html http://tinyurl.com/j6vmv /// ISSUE NO. 2: Interlanguage Links do not get displayed, no matter if the skin is MonoBook or Classic. After you enter [[de:PageName]], for example, this gets displayed in the body of the wiki webpage and not in a special "In other languages" section. /// As to school work, assignments etc. discussed in another thread, we're planning to install the following fine extension: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PageProtection We hope we can get this to work. The extension basically allows any student or teacher to mark any wiki page of theirs, or even any section of their page, with the <protect> </protect> tags, specifying within the <protect> tag to whom a wiki page or a section of it should display and to whom it should not. Both names of individual users or specific user groups may be defined within the tag. If anyone has any experience with this particular extension, we'll be happy to receive any advice on using it. -- Thank you, Alex. [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06]

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Filip Maljkovic

1 Aug 1 Aug

9:59 p.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

[snip]

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ISSUE NO. 2: Interlanguage Links do not get displayed, no matter if the skin is MonoBook or Classic. After you enter [[de:PageName]], for example, this gets displayed in the body of the wiki webpage and not in a special "In other languages" section.

[snip] Well, you might wanna take a look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Interwiki_links The page thoroughly explains what you should do to enable interwiki links. Filip

wiki＠avenarius.sk

2 Aug 2 Aug

5:39 a.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

On Tuesday, 1st August 2006 at 23:59:42 (GMT +0200), Filip Maljkovic wrote:

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[snip]

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Well, you might wanna take a look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Interwiki_links The page thoroughly explains what you should do to enable interwiki links.

Thank you, I'll study that. I've been under the impression (from what you're saying, it's wrong) that interwiki and interlanguage links are not the same thing, or anyway that interwiki links are something larger than interlanguage links. I thought interwiki dealt with links between various wikis rather than just between language versions of a page within the same wiki... I'll study the help page to bring us back on track. Meanwhile, many thanks to 211.131.100.143 for visiting our Sandbox and fixing the thumbnails issue. I had mistakenly used the 'thumb' and the 'frame' arguments simultaneosly, so just deleting 'frame' created the thumb. (Oops!) I had simply not read the 'frame' section of the help page carefully enough: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax (setting the worst possible example for our students... ;-)) -- Thank you, Alex. [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06]

Filip Maljkovic

9:06 a.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

wiki(a)avenarius.sk wrote:

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Well, in Wikimedia terminology, interlanguage links refer to links between the same project, but in different languages, e.g. posting a link for english wikibooks on german wikibooks. Interwiki links are, in theory, links between any two project, whether they are in the same language or not. By that logic, interlanguage links are a subset of interwiki links, but they don't really differ. Both are represented in the left below the searchbox or inline if you decide so. But basically, neither interwiki nor interlanguage links deal with language versions of a page within the same wiki - then it's not interwiki. It's intrawiki, if you catch my drift. I hope I clarified it a bit. Filip

wiki＠avenarius.sk

9:39 a.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

On Wednesday, 2nd August 2006 at 11:06:57 (GMT +0200), Filip Maljkovic wrote:

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> I've been under the impression (from what you're saying, it's > wrong) that interwiki and interlanguage links are not the same > thing, or anyway that interwiki links are something larger than > interlanguage links. I thought interwiki dealt with links between > various wikis rather than just between language versions of a page > within the same wiki... I'll study the help page to bring us back > on track.

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Well, in Wikimedia terminology, interlanguage links refer to links between the same project, but in different languages

That's exactly what we're looking for. For example, there's a text in language X on our webpage, and students get the assignment to translate that webpage into languages A, B, and C. The four webpages should then be mutually linked through the "In other languages" section. Nothing more is needed.

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Interwiki links are, in theory, links between any two projects, whether they are in the same language or not.

That's why we thought the InterWiki help page wasn't relevant for us, as we don't intend to link two projects but merely need to create various language versions of pages within a single project.

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By that logic, interlanguage links are a subset of interwiki links, but they don't really differ. [...] But basically, neither interwiki nor interlanguage links deal with language versions of a page within the same wiki - then it's not interwiki. It's intrawiki, if you catch my drift. I hope I clarified it a bit.

Thank you very much. The terminology is certainly capable of confusing anyone (especially if they're primarily language teachers like myself). I'll get to studying the InterWiki help page at the weekend in the hope we can then activate the "interlanguage intrawiki" links on our pages. ;-) -- Yours, Alex. [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06]

Filip Maljkovic

9:49 a.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

wiki(a)avenarius.sk wrote:

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On Wednesday, 2nd August 2006 at 11:06:57 (GMT +0200), Filip Maljkovic wrote:

Well, in Wikimedia terminology, interlanguage links refer to links between the same project, but in different languages

Interwiki links are, in theory, links between any two projects, whether they are in the same language or not.

That's why we thought the InterWiki help page wasn't relevant for us, as we don't intend to link two projects but merely need to create various language versions of pages within a single project.

The way I see it, you could achieve what you want by making false interwiki links for every needed language. That is, make interwiki links to that very same website of yours, so the links will show on the left and still connect to pages in your wiki. I'd do it like that. Then, you'd have links like [[fr:Chat]] and [[de:Katze]] in your article [[Cat]], but both would link to pages in your wiki. Furthermore, you could separate the content with namespaces because there may be clashes with different languages having the same words/phrases. I'd go with English:Cat, French:Chat etc. HTH Filip

wiki＠avenarius.sk

10:01 a.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

On Wednesday, 2nd August 2006 at 11:49:29 (GMT +0200), Filip Maljkovic wrote:

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That's exactly what I've wanted all along, the only question is HOW to do it. ;-) But since you said the InterWiki help page covers those arrangements, I'm confident I can get this done at the weekend. ;-)

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Then, you'd have links like [[fr:Chat]] and [[de:Katze]] in your article [[Cat]], but both would link to pages in your wiki. Furthermore, you could separate the content with namespaces because there may be clashes with different languages having the same words/phrases. I'd go with English:Cat, French:Chat etc.

That's an interesting suggestion, but exceeds my technical knowledge for the moment. Will get back to the list should I fail to understand the subject after thoroughly studying the InterWiki help page. -- Thanks again, Alex. [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06]

Hugh Prior

12:12 p.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Thumbnails and Interlanguage Links

I've been fighting with the problem of multiple languages and interlanguage links for http://chainki.org so I'm about 1 or 2 months ahead of you. In LocalSettings, make sure you have: $wgHideInterlanguageLinks = false; You can see the difference by comparing: http://en.chainki.org - hide set to true http://fr.chainki.org - hide set to false In the interwiki table, I have emptied it of all the "interwiki" links (in my view, they're not really useful for most sites) and just put links for my own site, e.g.: af http://af.chainki.org/index.php?title=$1 0 0 ar http://ar.chainki.org/index.php?title=$1 0 0 etc. As to the suggestion of using different namespaces for diffrent languages, the problem would be that you would not be able to change the interface languge (i.e. you would have all your sections in the same language). You (like me), I suppose need the interface for each section in a different language. For that you will need a separate version for each language, and then you need to do 2 things: 1) Set $wgLanguageCode in the LocalSettings file to the interface language required 2) Run the maintenace script "maintenance/rebuildMessages.php" The whole multilingual thing might work for Wikipedia, but for Joe Bloggs wanting a simple way to set up (say) a bi or tri lingual site, it's a nightmare. See also http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6107 Hugh <wiki(a)avenarius.sk> wrote in message news:208366999.20060801222236@avenarius.sk...

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Hello to the list, Interlanguage Links do not get displayed, no matter if the skin is MonoBook or Classic. After you enter [[de:PageName]], for example, this gets displayed in the body of the wiki webpage and not in a special "In other languages" section.

wiki＠avenarius.sk

1:24 p.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Interlanguage Links

On Wednesday, 2nd August 2006 at 14:12:04 (GMT +0200), Hugh Prior wrote:

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In LocalSettings, make sure you have: $wgHideInterlanguageLinks = false;

Yes, that far we did get. :-) It's too bad this isn't enough to make "interlanguage intrawiki" links (Filip's term) work out of the box. :-|

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You can see the difference by comparing: http://en.chainki.org - hide set to true http://fr.chainki.org - hide set to false

Looks like a monumental project. If you really need to do the wiki installation for each language separately (70 times over), that would be enough to drive anyone nuts.

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As to the suggestion of using different namespaces for diffrent languages, the problem would be that you would not be able to change the interface languge (i.e. you would have all your sections in the same language).

I think we'll be more modest for now and can live with the default (Slovak) interface for webpages in any language. After all, once you manage to register at the wiki, you can pick your preferred language and from that moment on, if you're logged in, those different namespaces would display the preferred interface language, right? The problem is not new. We also run a multi-lingual discussion board, phpBB, and you have the same problem there. Until you log in, the interface displays only one default language. We had to create accounts for Swedes and Spaniards who had no idea where to click on a Slovak site. There's probably no solution for this on a phpBB site. (So let's be grateful for the nightmarish MediaWiki solutions. ;-)))

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The whole multilingual thing might work for Wikipedia, but for Joe Bloggs wanting a simple way to set up (say) a bi or tri lingual site, it's a nightmare. See also http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6107

Depressing reading. Maybe that's typical of versions 1.x. Maybe when MediaWiki is at version 6, you'll just have to push a button and 70+ language interfaces will be installed for you. ;-) Thank you very much for the advice and good luck with your project (about a hundred times more ambitious than ours in terms of multilinguality). -- Yours, Alex. [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06]

wiki＠avenarius.sk

5 Aug 5 Aug

9:34 a.m.

New subject: [Mediawiki-l] Interlanguage Links

On Tuesday, 1st August 2006 at 23:59:42 (GMT +0200), Filip Maljkovic wrote:

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http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Interwiki_links The page thoroughly explains what you should do to enable [interlanguage] links.

Thank you, by following the instructions it was easy to set up interlanguage links. There's a cosmetic problem with our default skin, though, which is Classic. All interlanguage links are flagged as "external". When you switch to the MonoBook skin, they are shown correctly as internal links. In terms of code, MonoBook puts in, for example, <li class="interwiki-en">, while the Classic skin inserts <a class="external"> for all interlanguage links. Our interwiki table only states $1 for iw_url and 1 for iw_local for all language prefixes. Still, all interlanguage links are flagged as "external" in the Classic skin. Would there be any fix for this, or do users preferring the Classic skin have to live with this bug? For an illustration of the problem, here is our Sandbox: http://vincentdepaul.sk/skola/vincentdepaul.sk:Pieskovisko -- Thank you, Alex. [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06]

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Filip Maljkovic
Hugh Prior
wiki＠avenarius.sk