Hello everyone,
We are happy to announce the launch of our new wiki company: Professional.Wiki https://professional.wiki/.
Professional.Wiki's mission is to provide customer-focused wiki services that are both holistic and of high quality. Because of our strong involvement in the MediaWiki and Semantic MediaWiki worlds over the last ten years, we can provide a unique set of professional services to companies that have a wiki or want to use one.
Our services https://professional.wiki/en/servicescover all your wiki needs, including wiki hosting https://professional.wiki/en/hosting, wiki setup and creation, wiki management, training, advice, professional support and custom development.
To celebrate our launch we provide a limited time discount on our hosting plans. Contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contactbefore May 20th, 2019 to get a 20% discount on one of our hosting plans. All our hosting plans https://professional.wiki/en/hostinginclude free professional support and Semantic MediaWiki.
Subscribe to our mailing list http://professional.wiki/en/newsletterto receive tips and tricks, wiki news and exclusive promotions. Please also follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ProWikiExperts.
We will remain involved in the community, contributing to the software, documentation and discourse. Indeed, we hope to introduce more companies to the wonders of wikis and thus strengthen both the community and software.
For more information, please visit our website Professional.Wiki http://professional.wiki/or contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contact.
Karsten and Jeroen
--
Professional.Wiki – Jeroen De Dauw & Karsten Hoffmeyer GbR
Tieckstraße 24-25, 10115 Berlin
+49 (30) 55 87 42 65
info@professional.wiki
USt-IdNr. DE322440293
Hello, Thank you for informing us of your service. However, the MediaWiki mailing list is NOT a free advertising platform (at least its not supposed to be), and therefore messages like this are considered spam and may or may not be accepted in the future. -- Amanda
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 4:07 PM, Professional.Wiki info@professional.wiki wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are happy to announce the launch of our new wiki company: Professional.Wiki https://professional.wiki/.
Professional.Wiki's mission is to provide customer-focused wiki services that are both holistic and of high quality. Because of our strong involvement in the MediaWiki and Semantic MediaWiki worlds over the last ten years, we can provide a unique set of professional services to companies that have a wiki or want to use one.
Our services https://professional.wiki/en/servicescover all your wiki needs, including wiki hosting https://professional.wiki/en/hosting, wiki setup and creation, wiki management, training, advice, professional support and custom development.
To celebrate our launch we provide a limited time discount on our hosting plans. Contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contactbefore May 20th, 2019 to get a 20% discount on one of our hosting plans. All our hosting plans https://professional.wiki/en/hostinginclude free professional support and Semantic MediaWiki.
Subscribe to our mailing list http://professional.wiki/en/newsletterto receive tips and tricks, wiki news and exclusive promotions. Please also follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ProWikiExperts.
We will remain involved in the community, contributing to the software, documentation and discourse. Indeed, we hope to introduce more companies to the wonders of wikis and thus strengthen both the community and software.
For more information, please visit our website Professional.Wiki http://professional.wiki/or contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contact.
Karsten and Jeroen
--
Professional.Wiki – Jeroen De Dauw & Karsten Hoffmeyer GbR
Tieckstraße 24-25, 10115 Berlin
+49 (30) 55 87 42 65
info@professional.wiki
USt-IdNr. DE322440293 _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
This seems to me to be an advertisement for commercial services that was sent to a mailing list that is operated by a nonprofit and is intended for MediaWiki system administrators. The description if the mailing list is "This is a multilingual list for help/support with running/configuring MediaWiki. It is intended for people who are running wikis with the MediaWiki software and for announcements of new versions, bug fixes, and security issues." It seems to me that advertising commercial services here is well outside of the intended purposes of this list, and is a misuse of Wikimedia Foundation resources.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
On Wed, May 8, 2019, 13:07 Professional.Wiki info@professional.wiki wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are happy to announce the launch of our new wiki company: Professional.Wiki https://professional.wiki/.
Professional.Wiki's mission is to provide customer-focused wiki services that are both holistic and of high quality. Because of our strong involvement in the MediaWiki and Semantic MediaWiki worlds over the last ten years, we can provide a unique set of professional services to companies that have a wiki or want to use one.
Our services https://professional.wiki/en/servicescover all your wiki needs, including wiki hosting https://professional.wiki/en/hosting, wiki setup and creation, wiki management, training, advice, professional support and custom development.
To celebrate our launch we provide a limited time discount on our hosting plans. Contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contactbefore May 20th, 2019 to get a 20% discount on one of our hosting plans. All our hosting plans https://professional.wiki/en/hostinginclude free professional support and Semantic MediaWiki.
Subscribe to our mailing list http://professional.wiki/en/newsletterto receive tips and tricks, wiki news and exclusive promotions. Please also follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ProWikiExperts.
We will remain involved in the community, contributing to the software, documentation and discourse. Indeed, we hope to introduce more companies to the wonders of wikis and thus strengthen both the community and software.
For more information, please visit our website Professional.Wiki http://professional.wiki/or contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contact.
Karsten and Jeroen
--
Professional.Wiki – Jeroen De Dauw & Karsten Hoffmeyer GbR
Tieckstraße 24-25, 10115 Berlin
+49 (30) 55 87 42 65
info@professional.wiki
USt-IdNr. DE322440293
MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Hi,
At the risk of starting an unnecessary argument, let me say that I think this kind of email is fine. Paid support is a form of help/support, so even though the mailing list description doesn't specifically list consulting as one of the allowed topics, it seems to me that it fits within the "spirit of the law", if not the letter ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law). Of course, spamming the list is never a good idea, but a single email sent to announce a new consulting company seems fine - and, of course, potentially useful to people looking for help.
(Full disclosure: I too am a consultant. And I know Jeroen and Karsten.)
-Yaron
On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 4:41 PM Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
This seems to me to be an advertisement for commercial services that was sent to a mailing list that is operated by a nonprofit and is intended for MediaWiki system administrators. The description if the mailing list is "This is a multilingual list for help/support with running/configuring MediaWiki. It is intended for people who are running wikis with the MediaWiki software and for announcements of new versions, bug fixes, and security issues." It seems to me that advertising commercial services here is well outside of the intended purposes of this list, and is a misuse of Wikimedia Foundation resources.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
On Wed, May 8, 2019, 13:07 Professional.Wiki info@professional.wiki wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are happy to announce the launch of our new wiki company: Professional.Wiki https://professional.wiki/.
Professional.Wiki's mission is to provide customer-focused wiki services that are both holistic and of high quality. Because of our strong involvement in the MediaWiki and Semantic MediaWiki worlds over the last ten years, we can provide a unique set of professional services to companies that have a wiki or want to use one.
Our services https://professional.wiki/en/servicescover all your wiki needs, including wiki hosting https://professional.wiki/en/hosting, wiki setup and creation, wiki management, training, advice, professional support and custom development.
To celebrate our launch we provide a limited time discount on our hosting plans. Contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contactbefore May 20th, 2019 to get a 20% discount on one of our hosting plans. All our hosting plans https://professional.wiki/en/hostinginclude free professional support and Semantic MediaWiki.
Subscribe to our mailing list http://professional.wiki/en/newsletterto receive tips and tricks, wiki news and exclusive promotions. Please also follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ProWikiExperts.
We will remain involved in the community, contributing to the software, documentation and discourse. Indeed, we hope to introduce more companies to the wonders of wikis and thus strengthen both the community and software.
For more information, please visit our website Professional.Wiki http://professional.wiki/or contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contact.
Karsten and Jeroen
--
Professional.Wiki – Jeroen De Dauw & Karsten Hoffmeyer GbR
Tieckstraße 24-25, 10115 Berlin
+49 (30) 55 87 42 65
info@professional.wiki
USt-IdNr. DE322440293
MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Fwiw, Im of the opinion that its borderline but ok.
I would be annoyed if there was subsequent advertisements for this service. Or if there were a lot of these types of messages on this list. But an initial announcement of a new wiki hosting service with wide applicability that is being run by people well known in the mediawiki ecosystem seems ok to me for this list.
-- Brian
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, Yaron Koren yaron@wikiworks.com wrote:
Hi,
At the risk of starting an unnecessary argument, let me say that I think this kind of email is fine. Paid support is a form of help/support, so even though the mailing list description doesn't specifically list consulting as one of the allowed topics, it seems to me that it fits within the "spirit of the law", if not the letter ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law). Of course, spamming the list is never a good idea, but a single email sent to announce a new consulting company seems fine - and, of course, potentially useful to people looking for help.
(Full disclosure: I too am a consultant. And I know Jeroen and Karsten.)
-Yaron
On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 4:41 PM Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
This seems to me to be an advertisement for commercial services that was sent to a mailing list that is operated by a nonprofit and is intended
for
MediaWiki system administrators. The description if the mailing list is "This is a multilingual list for help/support with running/configuring MediaWiki. It is intended for people who are running wikis with the MediaWiki software and for announcements of new versions, bug fixes, and security issues." It seems to me that advertising commercial services
here
is well outside of the intended purposes of this list, and is a misuse of Wikimedia Foundation resources.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
On Wed, May 8, 2019, 13:07 Professional.Wiki info@professional.wiki wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are happy to announce the launch of our new wiki company: Professional.Wiki https://professional.wiki/.
Professional.Wiki's mission is to provide customer-focused wiki
services
that are both holistic and of high quality. Because of our strong involvement in the MediaWiki and Semantic MediaWiki worlds over the
last
ten years, we can provide a unique set of professional services to companies that have a wiki or want to use one.
Our services https://professional.wiki/en/servicescover all your
wiki
needs, including wiki hosting https://professional.wiki/en/hosting, wiki setup and creation, wiki management, training, advice,
professional
support and custom development.
To celebrate our launch we provide a limited time discount on our hosting plans. Contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contactbefore May 20th, 2019 to get a 20% discount on one of our hosting plans. All our hosting plans https://professional.wiki/en/hostinginclude free professional support and Semantic MediaWiki.
Subscribe to our mailing list <http://professional.wiki/en/newsletter
to
receive tips and tricks, wiki news and exclusive promotions. Please
also
follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ProWikiExperts.
We will remain involved in the community, contributing to the software, documentation and discourse. Indeed, we hope to introduce more
companies
to the wonders of wikis and thus strengthen both the community and software.
For more information, please visit our website Professional.Wiki http://professional.wiki/or contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contact.
Karsten and Jeroen
--
Professional.Wiki – Jeroen De Dauw & Karsten Hoffmeyer GbR
Tieckstraße 24-25, 10115 Berlin
+49 (30) 55 87 42 65
info@professional.wiki
USt-IdNr. DE322440293
MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
-- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
The mailing list description says that the permitted types of announcements are for "new versions, bug fixes, and security issues." Advertising of commercial services is not included. Granted, the description does not explicitly prohibit advertising. The absence of an explicit prohibition is not sufficient for me to conclude that advertising a commercial hosting service is OK to do. I think that permitting advertising is a bad idea 1. with Wikimedia Foundation resources which are paid for by donors who are told that their money will be used to support Wikipedia and its volunteers, and 2. on a list that is used largely for technical communications. The weighing of the factors that I have reviewed leads me to conclude that advertising is prohibited here under current policy.
I am willing to ask WMF Legal for its opinion regarding the use of Wikimedia Foundation mailing lists for advertising commercial hosting services, but even if WMF Legal thinks that this is OK in terms of the letter of the law, I don't think that it's consistent with the intentions of donors or my understanding of the Wikimedia Foundation brand.
I am willing to make a formal proposal to add an explicit prohibition against advertising on this list.
Continuing this is unrelated to the list thread, if you would like to continue this discussion, please create a new thread with a descriptive subject relating to your email.
On Thu, 9 May 2019, 3:57 pm Pine W, wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
The mailing list description says that the permitted types of announcements are for "new versions, bug fixes, and security issues." Advertising of commercial services is not included. Granted, the description does not explicitly prohibit advertising. The absence of an explicit prohibition is not sufficient for me to conclude that advertising a commercial hosting service is OK to do. I think that permitting advertising is a bad idea 1. with Wikimedia Foundation resources which are paid for by donors who are told that their money will be used to support Wikipedia and its volunteers, and 2. on a list that is used largely for technical communications. The weighing of the factors that I have reviewed leads me to conclude that advertising is prohibited here under current policy.
I am willing to ask WMF Legal for its opinion regarding the use of Wikimedia Foundation mailing lists for advertising commercial hosting services, but even if WMF Legal thinks that this is OK in terms of the letter of the law, I don't think that it's consistent with the intentions of donors or my understanding of the Wikimedia Foundation brand.
I am willing to make a formal proposal to add an explicit prohibition against advertising on this list.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
On Wed, 2019-05-08 at 22:57 -0700, Pine W wrote:
I am willing to ask WMF Legal for its opinion regarding the use of Wikimedia Foundation mailing lists for advertising commercial hosting services, but even if WMF Legal thinks that this is OK in terms of the letter of the law, I don't think that it's consistent with the intentions of donors or my understanding of the Wikimedia Foundation brand.
Pine, I hope WMF Legal won't care and won't comment. They likely have better things to spend time on than telling a community how they may or may not define the scope of one of the community mailing lists.
As a general reminder, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Professional_development_and_consulting exists, is linked from the mediawiki.org frontpage, and welcomes edits (which has already happened in this case).
andre
Thanks Yaron
I totally agree with you and do not wish this to escalate. Spamming the list is not good, however, the use of the list to make a one-off announcement of help/support services of two well known contributors to the community should not be associated as spam in any way. Not only do I agree the post fits within the "spirit of the law", I will add these two gentlemen enhance the "MediaWiki contributor spirit" by their interactions with others in the MediaWiki community.
Karsten, one of the hardest working, MediaWiki promoting, helpful contributors to be found in the MediaWiki Community. He does more in a week than most do in a year editing pages on mediawiki.org and answering the talk page posts on Skins and Extensions. He has setup mail lists for developers on Wikimedia Foundation's lists and provides MediaWiki hosting to MediaWiki projects, eg. Skin demos to maintaining the site for the Widgets extension.
Jereon, Semantic MediaWiki developer, developer of lots of other highly useful and used extensions, need I say more?
Tom
-----Original Message----- From: MediaWiki-l mediawiki-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org On Behalf Of Yaron Koren Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 7:55 PM To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [MediaWiki-l] Introducing: Professional.Wiki
Hi,
At the risk of starting an unnecessary argument, let me say that I think this kind of email is fine. Paid support is a form of help/support, so even though the mailing list description doesn't specifically list consulting as one of the allowed topics, it seems to me that it fits within the "spirit of the law", if not the letter ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law). Of course, spamming the list is never a good idea, but a single email sent to announce a new consulting company seems fine - and, of course, potentially useful to people looking for help.
(Full disclosure: I too am a consultant. And I know Jeroen and Karsten.)
-Yaron
On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 4:41 PM Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
This seems to me to be an advertisement for commercial services that was sent to a mailing list that is operated by a nonprofit and is intended for MediaWiki system administrators. The description if the mailing list is "This is a multilingual list for help/support with running/configuring MediaWiki. It is intended for people who are running wikis with the MediaWiki software and for announcements of new versions, bug fixes, and security issues." It seems to me that advertising commercial services here is well outside of the intended purposes of this list, and is a misuse of Wikimedia Foundation resources.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
On Wed, May 8, 2019, 13:07 Professional.Wiki info@professional.wiki wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are happy to announce the launch of our new wiki company: Professional.Wiki https://professional.wiki/.
Professional.Wiki's mission is to provide customer-focused wiki services that are both holistic and of high quality. Because of our strong involvement in the MediaWiki and Semantic MediaWiki worlds over the last ten years, we can provide a unique set of professional services to companies that have a wiki or want to use one.
Our services https://professional.wiki/en/servicescover all your wiki needs, including wiki hosting https://professional.wiki/en/hosting, wiki setup and creation, wiki management, training, advice, professional support and custom development.
To celebrate our launch we provide a limited time discount on our hosting plans. Contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contactbefore May 20th, 2019 to get a 20% discount on one of our hosting plans. All our hosting plans https://professional.wiki/en/hostinginclude free professional support and Semantic MediaWiki.
Subscribe to our mailing list http://professional.wiki/en/newsletterto receive tips and tricks, wiki news and exclusive promotions. Please also follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ProWikiExperts.
We will remain involved in the community, contributing to the software, documentation and discourse. Indeed, we hope to introduce more companies to the wonders of wikis and thus strengthen both the community and software.
For more information, please visit our website Professional.Wiki http://professional.wiki/or contact us https://professional.wiki/en/contact.
Karsten and Jeroen
--
Professional.Wiki – Jeroen De Dauw & Karsten Hoffmeyer GbR
Tieckstraße 24-25, 10115 Berlin
+49 (30) 55 87 42 65
info@professional.wiki
USt-IdNr. DE322440293
MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
-- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Hi Karsten and Jeroen
We are happy to announce the launch of our new wiki company: Professional.Wiki https://professional.wiki/
Good luck to yor new business! And thanks for all you did do before - and after :-)
Bests, Markus
mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org