I'm forwarding this message by George Orwell III on en-ws [1]. I think it is extremely important as it offers an insight about what is wrong with Djvu handling on Wikisource.
"We/you are losing the X-min, Y-min, X-Max & Y-max (mapping coordinates) because the original PHP contributing a-hole for the DjVu routine on our servers never bothered to finish the part where the internal DjVu text layer is converted to a (coordinate rich) XML file using the existing DjVuLibre software package because, at the time, the software had issues.
"That faulty DjVuLibre version was the equivalent of 4,317 versions ago and the issue has been long fixed now EXCEPT that the .DTD file needed to base the plain-text to XML conversion on still has the wrong 'folder path' on local DjVuLibre installs (if this is true on server installs as well, I cannot say for sure). Once I copied the folder to the [wrong] folder path, I was able to generate the XMLs all day long. These XMLs are just like the ones IA generates during their process (in addition to the XML that AABBY generates for them).
"So its not that we as a community decided not to follow through with (coordinate rich) XML generation but got stuck with the plain-text dump workaround due to a DjVuLibre problem that no longer exists. Plus, the guy who created the beginnings of this fabulous disaster was like tick with an attention span deficit and moved on to conjuring up some other blasted thing or another instead of following up on his own workaround & finish the XML coding portion once DjVuLibre glitch was fixed. -- 15:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
[1] http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Alex Brollo alex.brollo@gmail.com wrote:
Just a brief comment about djvu text layer, using IA files to digging deeper the topic.
FineReader OCR stores an incredibly detailed information in a proprietary format; then, various FineReader versions export something of this extremely rich set of information into different outputs - one of them being djvu text layer. It's worth to note that even if any information stored into djvu text layer can be extracted and used, the set of information wrapped into djvu text layer (both in lisp-like format or in xml format) is only a minor subset of original OCR information.
If someone is interested to get much more information, it can find it into abbyy.xml output; and Internet Archive gives it as abbyy.gz into the list of exportable files. It's a very heavy and complex xml structure but it is possible to parse it, end to extract from it any information wrapped into djvu text layer and much more - most interestingly, wortPenalty, that is, word by word, the resume of degree of incertainty of OCR recognition of the whole word.
We (I and Aarti) are digging into this mess, with fast preliminary results; you can see into [[it:w:Utente:Alex brollo/Sandbox]] some brief pieces of text extracted from abbyy.gx, where doubtful words (in the opinion of OCR software) are red. They can be easily managed by VisualEditor - caming simply from a simple span tag.
Now, I'm waiting dor Aarti work; as soon a VisualEditor for nsPage will run, it would be possible to extract text by bot from abbyy.gz (if the work comes from IA) and to upload such text as OCR.
Alex
2013/7/16 David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com
Hi Aubrey, Thanks for the heads-up, I have CC'ed Sébastien from fr-ws, he worked on the djvu text extraction/merging and he was interested in following-up on that. Maybe he has some fresh ideas about it.
Micru
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.comwrote:
Hi David, Aarti, thibaud and Tpt, please look at this thread:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext especially the last message.
It seems George Orwell III knows his stuff about Djvu and Proofread extension, and it's probably worth digging into this "layer text" djvu thing.
Even if I might dream of an ideal solution (a "layered structure" for wikisource, in which text can marked up several times in different layers) that is probably very far away.
But it's still important to pave the way for further improvements, I guess: losing all the information from a formatted, mapped IA djvu it's not a good thing to do, IMHO. And the Visual Editor could help us, in the future, to keep some of that information (italics, bold, etc.)
I know Aarti spoke with Alex about abbyy.xml: is it possible to do something with it?
Aubrey
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
I'm not sure his attitude will encourage people to work with him to his specifications.
-- brion
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:12 AM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
I'm forwarding this message by George Orwell III on en-ws [1]. I think it is extremely important as it offers an insight about what is wrong with Djvu handling on Wikisource.
"We/you are losing the X-min, Y-min, X-Max & Y-max (mapping coordinates) because the original PHP contributing a-hole for the DjVu routine on our servers never bothered to finish the part where the internal DjVu text layer is converted to a (coordinate rich) XML file using the existing DjVuLibre software package because, at the time, the software had issues.
"That faulty DjVuLibre version was the equivalent of 4,317 versions ago and the issue has been long fixed now EXCEPT that the .DTD file needed to base the plain-text to XML conversion on still has the wrong 'folder path' on local DjVuLibre installs (if this is true on server installs as well, I cannot say for sure). Once I copied the folder to the [wrong] folder path, I was able to generate the XMLs all day long. These XMLs are just like the ones IA generates during their process (in addition to the XML that AABBY generates for them).
"So its not that we as a community decided not to follow through with (coordinate rich) XML generation but got stuck with the plain-text dump workaround due to a DjVuLibre problem that no longer exists. Plus, the guy who created the beginnings of this fabulous disaster was like tick with an attention span deficit and moved on to conjuring up some other blasted thing or another instead of following up on his own workaround & finish the XML coding portion once DjVuLibre glitch was fixed. -- 15:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
[1]
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Alex Brollo alex.brollo@gmail.com wrote:
Just a brief comment about djvu text layer, using IA files to digging deeper the topic.
FineReader OCR stores an incredibly detailed information in a proprietary format; then, various FineReader versions export something of this extremely rich set of information into different outputs - one of them being djvu text layer. It's worth to note that even if any information stored into djvu text layer can be extracted and used, the set of information wrapped into djvu text layer (both in lisp-like format or in xml format) is only a minor subset of original OCR information.
If someone is interested to get much more information, it can find it
into
abbyy.xml output; and Internet Archive gives it as abbyy.gz into the list of exportable files. It's a very heavy and complex xml structure but it
is
possible to parse it, end to extract from it any information wrapped into djvu text layer and much more - most interestingly, wortPenalty, that is, word by word, the resume of degree of incertainty of OCR recognition of
the
whole word.
We (I and Aarti) are digging into this mess, with fast preliminary results; you can see into [[it:w:Utente:Alex brollo/Sandbox]] some brief pieces of text extracted from abbyy.gx, where doubtful words (in the opinion of OCR software) are red. They can be easily managed by VisualEditor - caming simply from a simple span tag.
Now, I'm waiting dor Aarti work; as soon a VisualEditor for nsPage will run, it would be possible to extract text by bot from abbyy.gz (if the
work
comes from IA) and to upload such text as OCR.
Alex
2013/7/16 David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com
Hi Aubrey, Thanks for the heads-up, I have CC'ed Sébastien from fr-ws, he worked on the djvu text extraction/merging and he was interested in following-up
on
that. Maybe he has some fresh ideas about it.
Micru
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andrea Zanni <
zanni.andrea84@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi David, Aarti, thibaud and Tpt, please look at this thread:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
especially the last message.
It seems George Orwell III knows his stuff about Djvu and Proofread extension, and it's probably worth digging into this "layer text" djvu thing.
Even if I might dream of an ideal solution (a "layered structure" for wikisource, in which text can marked up several times in different
layers)
that is probably very far away.
But it's still important to pave the way for further improvements, I guess: losing all the information from a formatted, mapped IA djvu it's not a good thing to do, IMHO. And the Visual Editor could help us, in the future, to keep some of
that
information (italics, bold, etc.)
I know Aarti spoke with Alex about abbyy.xml: is it possible to do something with it?
Aubrey
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Now that you mention it... http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/07/15/2316219/kernel-dev-tells-linus-torv...
Micru
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
I'm not sure his attitude will encourage people to work with him to his specifications.
-- brion
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:12 AM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
I'm forwarding this message by George Orwell III on en-ws [1]. I think it is extremely important as it offers an insight about what is wrong with Djvu handling on Wikisource.
"We/you are losing the X-min, Y-min, X-Max & Y-max (mapping coordinates) because the original PHP contributing a-hole for the DjVu routine on our servers never bothered to finish the part where the internal DjVu text layer is converted to a (coordinate rich) XML file using the existing DjVuLibre software package because, at the time, the software had issues.
"That faulty DjVuLibre version was the equivalent of 4,317 versions ago
and
the issue has been long fixed now EXCEPT that the .DTD file needed to
base
the plain-text to XML conversion on still has the wrong 'folder path' on local DjVuLibre installs (if this is true on server installs as well, I cannot say for sure). Once I copied the folder to the [wrong] folder
path,
I was able to generate the XMLs all day long. These XMLs are just like
the
ones IA generates during their process (in addition to the XML that AABBY generates for them).
"So its not that we as a community decided not to follow through with (coordinate rich) XML generation but got stuck with the plain-text dump workaround due to a DjVuLibre problem that no longer exists. Plus, the
guy
who created the beginnings of this fabulous disaster was like tick with
an
attention span deficit and moved on to conjuring up some other blasted thing or another instead of following up on his own workaround & finish
the
XML coding portion once DjVuLibre glitch was fixed. -- 15:16, 15 July
2013
(UTC)
[1]
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Alex Brollo alex.brollo@gmail.com wrote:
Just a brief comment about djvu text layer, using IA files to digging deeper the topic.
FineReader OCR stores an incredibly detailed information in a
proprietary
format; then, various FineReader versions export something of this extremely rich set of information into different outputs - one of them being djvu text layer. It's worth to note that even if any information stored into djvu text layer can be extracted and used, the set of information wrapped into djvu text layer (both in lisp-like format or
in
xml format) is only a minor subset of original OCR information.
If someone is interested to get much more information, it can find it
into
abbyy.xml output; and Internet Archive gives it as abbyy.gz into the
list
of exportable files. It's a very heavy and complex xml structure but it
is
possible to parse it, end to extract from it any information wrapped
into
djvu text layer and much more - most interestingly, wortPenalty, that
is,
word by word, the resume of degree of incertainty of OCR recognition of
the
whole word.
We (I and Aarti) are digging into this mess, with fast preliminary results; you can see into [[it:w:Utente:Alex brollo/Sandbox]] some
brief
pieces of text extracted from abbyy.gx, where doubtful words (in the opinion of OCR software) are red. They can be easily managed by VisualEditor - caming simply from a simple span tag.
Now, I'm waiting dor Aarti work; as soon a VisualEditor for nsPage will run, it would be possible to extract text by bot from abbyy.gz (if the
work
comes from IA) and to upload such text as OCR.
Alex
2013/7/16 David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com
Hi Aubrey, Thanks for the heads-up, I have CC'ed Sébastien from fr-ws, he worked
on
the djvu text extraction/merging and he was interested in following-up
on
that. Maybe he has some fresh ideas about it.
Micru
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andrea Zanni <
zanni.andrea84@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi David, Aarti, thibaud and Tpt, please look at this thread:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
especially the last message.
It seems George Orwell III knows his stuff about Djvu and Proofread extension, and it's probably worth digging into this "layer text" djvu thing.
Even if I might dream of an ideal solution (a "layered structure" for wikisource, in which text can marked up several times in different
layers)
that is probably very far away.
But it's still important to pave the way for further improvements, I guess: losing all the information from a formatted, mapped IA djvu it's not
a
good thing to do, IMHO. And the Visual Editor could help us, in the future, to keep some of
that
information (italics, bold, etc.)
I know Aarti spoke with Alex about abbyy.xml: is it possible to do something with it?
Aubrey
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
I had to moderate my response out of the belief that I would be banned from yet another wiki list by some tyrant.
By the way Kernal Dev didn't state this, one Intel developer named Sarah Sharp stated it.
But those against frank speech have to make it extreme in an effort to once again silence opposition instead of embracing this sort of speech as the only thing to drive the wagon.
-----Original Message----- From: David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wed, Jul 17, 2013 1:12 pm Subject: Re: [MediaWiki-l] [Wikisource-l] Proofread extension "extraction" of OCR text in Djvu
Now that you mention it... http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/07/15/2316219/kernel-dev-tells-linus-torv...
Micru
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
I'm not sure his attitude will encourage people to work with him to his specifications.
-- brion
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:12 AM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
I'm forwarding this message by George Orwell III on en-ws [1]. I think it is extremely important as it offers an insight about what is wrong with Djvu handling on Wikisource.
"We/you are losing the X-min, Y-min, X-Max & Y-max (mapping coordinates) because the original PHP contributing a-hole for the DjVu routine on our servers never bothered to finish the part where the internal DjVu text layer is converted to a (coordinate rich) XML file using the existing DjVuLibre software package because, at the time, the software had issues.
"That faulty DjVuLibre version was the equivalent of 4,317 versions ago
and
the issue has been long fixed now EXCEPT that the .DTD file needed to
base
the plain-text to XML conversion on still has the wrong 'folder path' on local DjVuLibre installs (if this is true on server installs as well, I cannot say for sure). Once I copied the folder to the [wrong] folder
path,
I was able to generate the XMLs all day long. These XMLs are just like
the
ones IA generates during their process (in addition to the XML that AABBY generates for them).
"So its not that we as a community decided not to follow through with (coordinate rich) XML generation but got stuck with the plain-text dump workaround due to a DjVuLibre problem that no longer exists. Plus, the
guy
who created the beginnings of this fabulous disaster was like tick with
an
attention span deficit and moved on to conjuring up some other blasted thing or another instead of following up on his own workaround & finish
the
XML coding portion once DjVuLibre glitch was fixed. -- 15:16, 15 July
2013
(UTC)
[1]
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Alex Brollo alex.brollo@gmail.com wrote:
Just a brief comment about djvu text layer, using IA files to digging deeper the topic.
FineReader OCR stores an incredibly detailed information in a
proprietary
format; then, various FineReader versions export something of this extremely rich set of information into different outputs - one of them being djvu text layer. It's worth to note that even if any information stored into djvu text layer can be extracted and used, the set of information wrapped into djvu text layer (both in lisp-like format or
in
xml format) is only a minor subset of original OCR information.
If someone is interested to get much more information, it can find it
into
abbyy.xml output; and Internet Archive gives it as abbyy.gz into the
list
of exportable files. It's a very heavy and complex xml structure but it
is
possible to parse it, end to extract from it any information wrapped
into
djvu text layer and much more - most interestingly, wortPenalty, that
is,
word by word, the resume of degree of incertainty of OCR recognition of
the
whole word.
We (I and Aarti) are digging into this mess, with fast preliminary results; you can see into [[it:w:Utente:Alex brollo/Sandbox]] some
brief
pieces of text extracted from abbyy.gx, where doubtful words (in the opinion of OCR software) are red. They can be easily managed by VisualEditor - caming simply from a simple span tag.
Now, I'm waiting dor Aarti work; as soon a VisualEditor for nsPage will run, it would be possible to extract text by bot from abbyy.gz (if the
work
comes from IA) and to upload such text as OCR.
Alex
2013/7/16 David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com
Hi Aubrey, Thanks for the heads-up, I have CC'ed Sébastien from fr-ws, he worked
on
the djvu text extraction/merging and he was interested in following-up
on
that. Maybe he has some fresh ideas about it.
Micru
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andrea Zanni <
zanni.andrea84@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi David, Aarti, thibaud and Tpt, please look at this thread:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
especially the last message.
It seems George Orwell III knows his stuff about Djvu and Proofread extension, and it's probably worth digging into this "layer text" djvu thing.
Even if I might dream of an ideal solution (a "layered structure" for wikisource, in which text can marked up several times in different
layers)
that is probably very far away.
But it's still important to pave the way for further improvements, I guess: losing all the information from a formatted, mapped IA djvu it's not
a
good thing to do, IMHO. And the Visual Editor could help us, in the future, to keep some of
that
information (italics, bold, etc.)
I know Aarti spoke with Alex about abbyy.xml: is it possible to do something with it?
Aubrey
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
More on the great Sarah Sharp fiasco :)
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/60866-female-devs-outb...
-----Original Message----- From: Wjhonson wjhonson@aol.com To: mediawiki-l mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wed, Jul 17, 2013 1:21 pm Subject: Re: [MediaWiki-l] [Wikisource-l] Proofread extension "extraction" of OCR text in Djvu
I had to moderate my response out of the belief that I would be banned from yet another wiki list by some tyrant.
By the way Kernal Dev didn't state this, one Intel developer named Sarah Sharp stated it.
But those against frank speech have to make it extreme in an effort to once again silence opposition instead of embracing this sort of speech as the only thing to drive the wagon.
-----Original Message----- From: David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wed, Jul 17, 2013 1:12 pm Subject: Re: [MediaWiki-l] [Wikisource-l] Proofread extension "extraction" of OCR text in Djvu
Now that you mention it... http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/07/15/2316219/kernel-dev-tells-linus-torv...
Micru
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
I'm not sure his attitude will encourage people to work with him to his specifications.
-- brion
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:12 AM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
I'm forwarding this message by George Orwell III on en-ws [1]. I think it is extremely important as it offers an insight about what is wrong with Djvu handling on Wikisource.
"We/you are losing the X-min, Y-min, X-Max & Y-max (mapping coordinates) because the original PHP contributing a-hole for the DjVu routine on our servers never bothered to finish the part where the internal DjVu text layer is converted to a (coordinate rich) XML file using the existing DjVuLibre software package because, at the time, the software had issues.
"That faulty DjVuLibre version was the equivalent of 4,317 versions ago
and
the issue has been long fixed now EXCEPT that the .DTD file needed to
base
the plain-text to XML conversion on still has the wrong 'folder path' on local DjVuLibre installs (if this is true on server installs as well, I cannot say for sure). Once I copied the folder to the [wrong] folder
path,
I was able to generate the XMLs all day long. These XMLs are just like
the
ones IA generates during their process (in addition to the XML that AABBY generates for them).
"So its not that we as a community decided not to follow through with (coordinate rich) XML generation but got stuck with the plain-text dump workaround due to a DjVuLibre problem that no longer exists. Plus, the
guy
who created the beginnings of this fabulous disaster was like tick with
an
attention span deficit and moved on to conjuring up some other blasted thing or another instead of following up on his own workaround & finish
the
XML coding portion once DjVuLibre glitch was fixed. -- 15:16, 15 July
2013
(UTC)
[1]
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Alex Brollo alex.brollo@gmail.com wrote:
Just a brief comment about djvu text layer, using IA files to digging deeper the topic.
FineReader OCR stores an incredibly detailed information in a
proprietary
format; then, various FineReader versions export something of this extremely rich set of information into different outputs - one of them being djvu text layer. It's worth to note that even if any information stored into djvu text layer can be extracted and used, the set of information wrapped into djvu text layer (both in lisp-like format or
in
xml format) is only a minor subset of original OCR information.
If someone is interested to get much more information, it can find it
into
abbyy.xml output; and Internet Archive gives it as abbyy.gz into the
list
of exportable files. It's a very heavy and complex xml structure but it
is
possible to parse it, end to extract from it any information wrapped
into
djvu text layer and much more - most interestingly, wortPenalty, that
is,
word by word, the resume of degree of incertainty of OCR recognition of
the
whole word.
We (I and Aarti) are digging into this mess, with fast preliminary results; you can see into [[it:w:Utente:Alex brollo/Sandbox]] some
brief
pieces of text extracted from abbyy.gx, where doubtful words (in the opinion of OCR software) are red. They can be easily managed by VisualEditor - caming simply from a simple span tag.
Now, I'm waiting dor Aarti work; as soon a VisualEditor for nsPage will run, it would be possible to extract text by bot from abbyy.gz (if the
work
comes from IA) and to upload such text as OCR.
Alex
2013/7/16 David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com
Hi Aubrey, Thanks for the heads-up, I have CC'ed Sébastien from fr-ws, he worked
on
the djvu text extraction/merging and he was interested in following-up
on
that. Maybe he has some fresh ideas about it.
Micru
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andrea Zanni <
zanni.andrea84@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi David, Aarti, thibaud and Tpt, please look at this thread:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
especially the last message.
It seems George Orwell III knows his stuff about Djvu and Proofread extension, and it's probably worth digging into this "layer text" djvu thing.
Even if I might dream of an ideal solution (a "layered structure" for wikisource, in which text can marked up several times in different
layers)
that is probably very far away.
But it's still important to pave the way for further improvements, I guess: losing all the information from a formatted, mapped IA djvu it's not
a
good thing to do, IMHO. And the Visual Editor could help us, in the future, to keep some of
that
information (italics, bold, etc.)
I know Aarti spoke with Alex about abbyy.xml: is it possible to do something with it?
Aubrey
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Yeah, Linus is kind of an asshole too. I don't see that as something to emulate.
-- brion
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:10 PM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
Now that you mention it...
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/07/15/2316219/kernel-dev-tells-linus-torv...
Micru
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
I'm not sure his attitude will encourage people to work with him to his specifications.
-- brion
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:12 AM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
I'm forwarding this message by George Orwell III on en-ws [1]. I think
it
is extremely important as it offers an insight about what is wrong with Djvu handling on Wikisource.
"We/you are losing the X-min, Y-min, X-Max & Y-max (mapping
coordinates)
because the original PHP contributing a-hole for the DjVu routine on
our
servers never bothered to finish the part where the internal DjVu text layer is converted to a (coordinate rich) XML file using the existing DjVuLibre software package because, at the time, the software had
issues.
"That faulty DjVuLibre version was the equivalent of 4,317 versions ago
and
the issue has been long fixed now EXCEPT that the .DTD file needed to
base
the plain-text to XML conversion on still has the wrong 'folder path'
on
local DjVuLibre installs (if this is true on server installs as well, I cannot say for sure). Once I copied the folder to the [wrong] folder
path,
I was able to generate the XMLs all day long. These XMLs are just like
the
ones IA generates during their process (in addition to the XML that
AABBY
generates for them).
"So its not that we as a community decided not to follow through with (coordinate rich) XML generation but got stuck with the plain-text dump workaround due to a DjVuLibre problem that no longer exists. Plus, the
guy
who created the beginnings of this fabulous disaster was like tick with
an
attention span deficit and moved on to conjuring up some other blasted thing or another instead of following up on his own workaround & finish
the
XML coding portion once DjVuLibre glitch was fixed. -- 15:16, 15 July
2013
(UTC)
[1]
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Alex Brollo alex.brollo@gmail.com wrote:
Just a brief comment about djvu text layer, using IA files to digging deeper the topic.
FineReader OCR stores an incredibly detailed information in a
proprietary
format; then, various FineReader versions export something of this extremely rich set of information into different outputs - one of
them
being djvu text layer. It's worth to note that even if any
information
stored into djvu text layer can be extracted and used, the set of information wrapped into djvu text layer (both in lisp-like format or
in
xml format) is only a minor subset of original OCR information.
If someone is interested to get much more information, it can find it
into
abbyy.xml output; and Internet Archive gives it as abbyy.gz into the
list
of exportable files. It's a very heavy and complex xml structure but
it
is
possible to parse it, end to extract from it any information wrapped
into
djvu text layer and much more - most interestingly, wortPenalty, that
is,
word by word, the resume of degree of incertainty of OCR recognition
of
the
whole word.
We (I and Aarti) are digging into this mess, with fast preliminary results; you can see into [[it:w:Utente:Alex brollo/Sandbox]] some
brief
pieces of text extracted from abbyy.gx, where doubtful words (in the opinion of OCR software) are red. They can be easily managed by VisualEditor - caming simply from a simple span tag.
Now, I'm waiting dor Aarti work; as soon a VisualEditor for nsPage
will
run, it would be possible to extract text by bot from abbyy.gz (if
the
work
comes from IA) and to upload such text as OCR.
Alex
2013/7/16 David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com
Hi Aubrey, Thanks for the heads-up, I have CC'ed Sébastien from fr-ws, he
worked
on
the djvu text extraction/merging and he was interested in
following-up
on
that. Maybe he has some fresh ideas about it.
Micru
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andrea Zanni <
zanni.andrea84@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi David, Aarti, thibaud and Tpt, please look at this thread:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#EPUB.2FHTML_to_Wikitext
especially the last message.
It seems George Orwell III knows his stuff about Djvu and Proofread extension, and it's probably worth digging into this "layer text" djvu thing.
Even if I might dream of an ideal solution (a "layered structure"
for
wikisource, in which text can marked up several times in different
layers)
that is probably very far away.
But it's still important to pave the way for further improvements,
I
guess: losing all the information from a formatted, mapped IA djvu it's
not
a
good thing to do, IMHO. And the Visual Editor could help us, in the future, to keep some of
that
information (italics, bold, etc.)
I know Aarti spoke with Alex about abbyy.xml: is it possible to do something with it?
Aubrey
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org