John:

Thank you very much for the details. This really helps me.

The project I have in mind really can't be done on Wikisource for copyright reasons. I plan to set up a wiki where I attempt to restrict access to those participating in the translation. I know that restricting access on a wiki isn't perfect, but this project isn't so attractive that too many people are likely to try to break in.

I'm going to have to do some testing to see what will work for my purposes.

Thanks for the details. I really appreciate it.

Kent

At 11:36 PM +1100 12/19/07, you wrote:

Hi Kent,

On Dec 5, 2007 6:19 PM, Kent S. Larsen II kent@lusobraz.com wrote:

...

Has anyone set up a wiki for making collaborative translations from one language to another?

The English, French and German Wikisource permit and encourage translations. We recommend that the original is placed on the appropriate sub-domain. I cant speak for the other language sub-domains; the proposed/defacto guideline for the English says that all these translation are collaborative so that nobody can get their nose out of joint when it is updated by others. i.e. attribution shouldnt be placed on the main article page; it is in the history, and major contributors can be mentioned on the talk page. This is also to ensure that Wikisource is not seen as a publisher -- if someone wants traditional attribution and accolades for their translation, they should be submitting it to a peer-reviewed journal, or book publisher.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Translations

An incomplete list of translations into English can be found here:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:Wikisource_translations

More translations can probably be found in the GFDL category, as the GFDL license is usually only used for modern works, and translations are one of the few types of modern works that are acceptable on Wikisource.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:GFDL

Each language sub-domain of Wikisource is free to set up their own guidelines and policies, so other languages may not accept translations. I have asked that other sub domain projects fill in the "translations" row of this table:

http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Subdomains_coordination

...

Ideally, I'd like something like traduwiki.org, but I'd prefer something based on MediaWiki instead of pmWiki that traduwiki is based on.

It is trivial to set up a wiki with the text to be translated on one page, and the result on another (or on a subpage).

The difficulty comes when the source and result are side by side.

Wikisource is using an extension to show pages from two different sub-domains on the same page.

http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:DoubleWiki_Extension

One of our better examples can be seen here:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Singer_(Pushkin)?match=ru

Typically, the headers on each sub-domain are different, resulting in the combined view being unappealing. Here are a few showing the original and translation malaligned:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Second_Manifesto?match=fr http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tell_me,_Tell?match=sr http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catullus_27?match=la http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Protest_of_Zofia_Kossak-Szczucka?match=pl

...

I have seen one solution -- putting the source document into the page as an image. But this is also less than ideal, IMO.

We also do this, where the original is not a separate sub-domain, like this Middle English translation:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Balade_to_Rosemounde

On Dec 19, 2007 12:16 AM, Kent S. Larsen II kent@lusobraz.com wrote:

...

Turns out that the Proofread Page extension can be used for this. Apparently, Proofread Page is used on Wikisource for proofing scans and entering text from images.

What I'm not completely sure about is whether or not it is easy to use it for material that is already text (that needs to be translated to a new language). Does anyone here have any experience with this extension?

The Proofread Page extension is useful for collaborative transcribing and proof reading, however another benefit is the separation of the presentation layout (in the main name space) from the original layout. For example, in addition to having encyclopedia entries on separate pages:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student%27s_Reference_Work/Belgrade

the same text can be seen on the page as it appeared in print:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:LA2-NSRW-1-0245.jpg

An index of all of the pages has been created; each page provides a "^" (up) button at the top of the page, which takes the viewer to:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:The_New_Student%27s_Reference_Work

If I understand correctly, you want to know whether this extension can be used without images. I haven't seen this done before, but I've been meaning to experiment with this, as a contributor is currently working on a book that we dont have page scans for, yet they have chosen to retain the original page layout; see the page numbers here:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Iowa/Volume_4/TOC

As a test, I have moved the first two pages into the Page namespace, and created an index, and the extension doesn't appear to mind that there are no images.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:History_of_Iowa/Volume_4 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:History_of_Iowa_From_the_Earliest_Times_t... http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:History_of_Iowa_From_the_Earliest_Times_t... (note the navigational arrows at the very top, near the "page" tab.)

Pages can then be split into multiple articles, using another extension that allows inclusion of sections.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Iowa/Austin_Adams http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Iowa/Charles_H._Abbot

More information about these extensions can be found here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Help:Side_by_side_image_view_for_proofreading http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Labeled_Section_Transclusion

-- John Mark Vandenberg (User:Jayvdb)

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