In case people haven't seen the various bits of news coming out of (Foo|Bar)Camp last weekend: Wikiwyg is a demonstration of an in- browser WYSIWYG wiki editor. It's Mozilla/Firefox only, but rather elegant nonetheless.
Not that I wish to kick off a holy war, but with current wikis, including MediaWiki, there's clearly a learning curve for 'general public' users. Often, they're new not just to the wiki concept, but also to the very idea of markup. My own recent wiki project foundered on that hurdle; Wikiwyg is the sort of system that might make wikis dramatically more straightforward to casual users.
Besides, it's kinda fun to play with.
Lots of discussion around the blogosphere: http://technorati.com/search/wikiwyg
On 8/23/05, Jonathan Sanderson lists@quernstone.com wrote:
In case people haven't seen the various bits of news coming out of (Foo|Bar)Camp last weekend: Wikiwyg is a demonstration of an in- browser WYSIWYG wiki editor. It's Mozilla/Firefox only, but rather elegant nonetheless.
<http://www.wikiwyg.net/>Not that I wish to kick off a holy war, but with current wikis, including MediaWiki, there's clearly a learning curve for 'general public' users. Often, they're new not just to the wiki concept, but also to the very idea of markup. My own recent wiki project foundered on that hurdle; Wikiwyg is the sort of system that might make wikis dramatically more straightforward to casual users.
Besides, it's kinda fun to play with.
Lots of discussion around the blogosphere: http://technorati.com/search/wikiwyg
-- Jonathan Sanderson 'If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.' (Pascal)
Odd. I thought Wikiwyg was http://81.5.150.113/wysi/. I think it's also much cooler. I'm working on a Client-side reader/editor written in XUL/JS based on it. See my blog entry http://endeavour.zapto.org/astro73/blog/wikiwyg/.
I think you may have kicked off a holy war of a different kind.
I have been wondering this same thing. I would like to know if Jim, who created the term "Wikiwyg" and runs it on http://81.5.150.113/wysi/ is involved with this socialtext version. If he isn't I think it's a low blow to steal his name. He even had a logo for it already. The work he has done there is extremely incredible. If he is involved then congratulations but I don't see the same code being used and his verison is much much more impressive.
On 8/23/05, Jamie Bliss astronouth7303@gmail.com wrote:
On 8/23/05, Jonathan Sanderson lists@quernstone.com wrote:
In case people haven't seen the various bits of news coming out of (Foo|Bar)Camp last weekend: Wikiwyg is a demonstration of an in- browser WYSIWYG wiki editor. It's Mozilla/Firefox only, but rather elegant nonetheless.
Not that I wish to kick off a holy war, but with current wikis, including MediaWiki, there's clearly a learning curve for 'general public' users. Often, they're new not just to the wiki concept, but also to the very idea of markup. My own recent wiki project foundered on that hurdle; Wikiwyg is the sort of system that might make wikis dramatically more straightforward to casual users.
Besides, it's kinda fun to play with.
Lots of discussion around the blogosphere: http://technorati.com/search/wikiwyg
-- Jonathan Sanderson 'If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.' (Pascal)
Odd. I thought Wikiwyg was http://81.5.150.113/wysi/. I think it's also much cooler. I'm working on a Client-side reader/editor written in XUL/JS based on it. See my blog entry http://endeavour.zapto.org/astro73/blog/wikiwyg/.
I think you may have kicked off a holy war of a different kind.
-- Jamie
http://endeavour.zapto.org/astro73/ Thank you to JosephM for inviting me to Gmail! Have lots of invites. Gmail now has 2GB. _______________________________________________ MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Oh my ghod!! *swoon*
Jamie Bliss wrote:
Hi.
I had no idea of the wikiwyg.net site. Hmmm... the naming does seem to be a bit of a collision, but I'm guessing they just hadn't seen my project. I own wikiwyg.org, but haven't set anything up on it yet - I had a pretty serious injury a while back so laid off the geeking for a bit. I'll fire them off a mail and post here what they say.
Anyway, my limbs are coming back online so I should have my domain properly running soon, maybe middle of next week and then I'll start promoting my little project a bit more. Now I've graduated it's done as a dissertation (I got 84% for it, btw :) and I can put it properly under the GPL.
Coming soon should be some better compatability. I finally got an old Windows box donated, so getting it working in IE 6 is certainly doable. First though, I'll get Konqueror/Safari working, because Konq is my main browser.
The wikiwyg.net stuff seems to be a textarea implementation. That's an approach I considered, but has some drawbacks that I couldn't really think of serious ways of getting around. One is that the same end result can be written several ways as wikitext, and if you're transforming to HTML and then back, the wikitext tends to get a bit mangled/ugly. This is fine if people only ever use the rich editor, but if you have users on both the rich editor users would probably be despised by the plain editor users for junking a load of wikitext formatting whenever they edit. I don't really want to comment on their project too much (holy war etc)
-- Ta, Jim
On 8/23/05, Jonathan Sanderson lists@quernstone.com wrote:
In case people haven't seen the various bits of news coming out of (Foo|Bar)Camp last weekend: Wikiwyg is a demonstration of an in- browser WYSIWYG wiki editor. It's Mozilla/Firefox only, but rather elegant nonetheless.
<http://www.wikiwyg.net/>Not that I wish to kick off a holy war, but with current wikis, including MediaWiki, there's clearly a learning curve for 'general public' users. Often, they're new not just to the wiki concept, but also to the very idea of markup. My own recent wiki project foundered on that hurdle; Wikiwyg is the sort of system that might make wikis dramatically more straightforward to casual users.
Besides, it's kinda fun to play with.
Lots of discussion around the blogosphere: http://technorati.com/search/wikiwyg
-- Jonathan Sanderson 'If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.' (Pascal)
Odd. I thought Wikiwyg was http://81.5.150.113/wysi/. I think it's also much cooler. I'm working on a Client-side reader/editor written in XUL/JS based on it. See my blog entry http://endeavour.zapto.org/astro73/blog/wikiwyg/.
I think you may have kicked off a holy war of a different kind.
Ascander and a few other devs who came to Wikimania earlier this month were working on their own collection of wysiwyg implementation ideas and requirements; perhaps they can coordinate with you as you get back up to geek speed.
SJ
On 8/25/05, Jim Higson jh@333.org wrote:
Jamie Bliss wrote:
Hi.
I had no idea of the wikiwyg.net site. Hmmm... the naming does seem to be a bit of a collision, but I'm guessing they just hadn't seen my project. I own wikiwyg.org, but haven't set anything up on it yet - I had a pretty serious injury a while back so laid off the geeking for a bit. I'll fire them off a mail and post here what they say.
Anyway, my limbs are coming back online so I should have my domain properly running soon, maybe middle of next week and then I'll start promoting my little project a bit more. Now I've graduated it's done as a dissertation (I got 84% for it, btw :) and I can put it properly under the GPL.
Coming soon should be some better compatability. I finally got an old Windows box donated, so getting it working in IE 6 is certainly doable. First though, I'll get Konqueror/Safari working, because Konq is my main browser.
The wikiwyg.net stuff seems to be a textarea implementation. That's an approach I considered, but has some drawbacks that I couldn't really think of serious ways of getting around. One is that the same end result can be written several ways as wikitext, and if you're transforming to HTML and then back, the wikitext tends to get a bit mangled/ugly. This is fine if people only ever use the rich editor, but if you have users on both the rich editor users would probably be despised by the plain editor users for junking a load of wikitext formatting whenever they edit. I don't really want to comment on their project too much (holy war etc)
-- Ta, Jim
On 8/23/05, Jonathan Sanderson lists@quernstone.com wrote:
In case people haven't seen the various bits of news coming out of (Foo|Bar)Camp last weekend: Wikiwyg is a demonstration of an in- browser WYSIWYG wiki editor. It's Mozilla/Firefox only, but rather elegant nonetheless.
<http://www.wikiwyg.net/>Not that I wish to kick off a holy war, but with current wikis, including MediaWiki, there's clearly a learning curve for 'general public' users. Often, they're new not just to the wiki concept, but also to the very idea of markup. My own recent wiki project foundered on that hurdle; Wikiwyg is the sort of system that might make wikis dramatically more straightforward to casual users.
Besides, it's kinda fun to play with.
Lots of discussion around the blogosphere: http://technorati.com/search/wikiwyg
-- Jonathan Sanderson 'If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.' (Pascal)
Odd. I thought Wikiwyg was http://81.5.150.113/wysi/. I think it's also much cooler. I'm working on a Client-side reader/editor written in XUL/JS based on it. See my blog entry http://endeavour.zapto.org/astro73/blog/wikiwyg/.
I think you may have kicked off a holy war of a different kind.
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
SJ wrote:
Ascander and a few other devs who came to Wikimania earlier this month were working on their own collection of wysiwyg implementation ideas and requirements; perhaps they can coordinate with you as you get back up to geek speed.
SJ
By the way, I've had a bit of correspondence about naming. We agreed to call our projects by the full names Wikiwyg.org and Wikiwyg.net, and to post a disambiguation note at the top of both our home pages as soon as my site is properly up.
I'm quite happy with this. The Wikiwyg.net guys seem to have acted in good faith and weren't aware of my project's name when they started theirs.
Jim
Jonathan Sanderson wrote:
<http://www.wikiwyg.net/>
Why doesn't someone hack a <wikitextarea> tag into the Firefox browser? Then let the W3C standardize it in HTML 7.
On 23 Aug 2005, at 15:24, Jonathan Sanderson wrote:
<http://www.wikiwyg.net/>
Just to bring things up-to-date: this 'wikiwyg' group (as opposed to Jim's wikiwyg :) have recently posted a GreaseMonkey demo that does somewhat surprising things to Mediawiki:
http://demo.wikiwyg.net/wikiwyg/demo/wikipedia/
It's... quite startling.
As a user and would-be deployer, I hope some common ground can be found for all these projects. Mediawiki usability, particularly for casual users, could take a giant leap forwards. Round-trip problems will doubtless be an issue, but in my book anything that allows an occasional visitor to contribute without having to learn markup is at least worth considering.
mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org