Hi, I was just wondering... supposing I decide to fix my skin width. What would be the ideal width? 800px or 1024? The reason why I ask is I do not know what width I should set for my top banner. If I have a choice, I rather prefer to have a flexible width that fills up any browser up to 1024px. But then again, how about the banner? Won't it look awful if I set it at 1024px according to my present screen resolution and someone uses another resolution?
Ekompute .info wrote:
If I have a choice, I rather prefer to have a flexible width that fills up any browser up to 1024px. But then again, how about the banner? Won't it look awful if I set it at 1024px according to my present screen resolution and someone uses another resolution?
Have it use a completely flexible width and use something like centring to ensure that it is lined up for any width. People today are using everything from under 640 to 2500+ pixel widths and that is just consumer grade monitors. Mobile phones and various handheld devices are even smaller.
Mike
Thank you Mike for your kind response. Would centering a 1024px banner do? I was thinking of a banner with two parts so that the empty space in the middle could stretch.
PM Poon
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Michael Daly michael.daly@kayakwiki.orgwrote:
Ekompute .info wrote:
If I have a choice, I rather prefer to have a flexible width that fills up any browser up to 1024px. But then again, how about the banner? Won't it look awful if I set it at 1024px according to my present screen resolution and someone uses another resolution?
Have it use a completely flexible width and use something like centring to ensure that it is lined up for any width. People today are using everything from under 640 to 2500+ pixel widths and that is just consumer grade monitors. Mobile phones and various handheld devices are even smaller.
Mike
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Ekompute .info wrote:
Would centering a 1024px banner do? I was thinking of a banner with two parts so that the empty space in the middle could stretch.
It would depend entirely on how the skin looks and how the layout is done. I can't say without seeing the page.
Mike
Hi Mike, my website is http://dummipedia.org
I am referring to the topmost row.
Regards, PM Poon
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Michael Daly michael.daly@kayakwiki.orgwrote:
Ekompute .info wrote:
Would centering a 1024px banner do? I was thinking of a banner with two parts so that the empty space in the middle could stretch.
It would depend entirely on how the skin looks and how the layout is done. I can't say without seeing the page.
Mike
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Hi Poon,
I like the banner the way it is - on the left side of the screen. Zooming it to fill the whole screen-width would "blow it up" too much.
But I've got a visibility problem with your menu-bar. The red menu-items are very hard to see on the dark green background. I guess people with limited sight or those with red green (colour) deficiency might have problems seeing those items at all.
Best wishes Katharina
Ekompute .info schrieb am 13.08.2009 20:47:
Hi Mike, my website is http://dummipedia.org
I am referring to the topmost row.
Regards, PM Poon
Hi Katharina, thank you very much for your kind comments. I was not thinking of blowing up the banner to fill the whole screen. I think this size for the logo is about right, or maybe add another 10%. I was thinking of having a colored banner so that it doesn't look too plain. Maybe adding some graphics on the right. I have 8 Mediawiki sites using this same skin that I tried to develop with the help of this forum. Sometimes just changing the color as in Dummipedia.comhttp://dummipedia.com/Gone_with_the_Wind_%28film%29 . Yes, regarding the menu bar. I agree with you that the red is hard to read. But as all my websites have no other contributors except yours truly, I didn't thought it was a problem. On the contrary, those are empty pages so if visitors do not see the words, it may actually turn out to be better for them, LOL.
PM Poon
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Katharina Wolkwitz wolkwitz@fh-swf.dewrote:
Hi Poon,
I like the banner the way it is - on the left side of the screen. Zooming it to fill the whole screen-width would "blow it up" too much.
But I've got a visibility problem with your menu-bar. The red menu-items are very hard to see on the dark green background. I guess people with limited sight or those with red green (colour) deficiency might have problems seeing those items at all.
Best wishes Katharina
Ekompute .info schrieb am 13.08.2009 20:47:
Hi Mike, my website is http://dummipedia.org
I am referring to the topmost row.
Regards, PM Poon
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Hi Poon,
I think you should leave the banner as it is, especially as you're already using quite a lot of colour on your webside.
I think looking plain instead of ostentatious/overcharged (I'm not sure how to phrase that right) is very much preferable for logos. Your logo is clear and catchy as it is and very well adaptable to different colour-schemes without loosing it's effectiveness.
Ekompute .info schrieb am 14.08.2009 09:20:
Hi Katharina, thank you very much for your kind comments. I was not thinking of blowing up the banner to fill the whole screen. I think this size for the logo is about right, or maybe add another 10%.
You should try to keep all the logos the same size or at least have a distinct size graduation. At the moment, when one switches between http://dummipedia.org and http://dummipedia.com the size-difference is too small to feel/look intentional. It rather seems like an unintended mistake.
There is a German saying "Gewollt und nicht gekonnt" (for which I've just found the one translation "Close, but no cigar") that puts that kind of feeling/look in one sentence.
If you're using different (font-)sizes, they have to be different enough to look deliberate.
I was thinking of having a colored banner so that it doesn't look too plain. Maybe adding some graphics on the right. I have 8 Mediawiki sites using this same skin that I tried to develop with the help of this forum. Sometimes just changing the color as in Dummipedia.comhttp://dummipedia.com/Gone_with_the_Wind_%28film%29 . Yes, regarding the menu bar. I agree with you that the red is hard to read. But as all my websites have no other contributors except yours truly, I didn't thought it was a problem. On the contrary, those are empty pages so if visitors do not see the words, it may actually turn out to be better for them, LOL.
You're rigth both times, but perhaps someday you'd want visitors to contribute or at least visit those pages as well... ;-)
Good luck! Katharina
Hi Katharina, thank you very very much. Your mail sounds like music to my ear when you said "leave the banner as it is", LOL. I am no artist and when I put in some graphics before, I was condemned left right center by reviewers at Link Referral. So I will keep it as it is. Ahhhh, the small difference... okay, I will look into that. Actually, the two layouts are slightly different because they are of different versions. Being toying with it as you can see that Dummipedia.org has the panel on the right while Dummipedia.com has the panel on the left. I change the panel to the right because I read somewhere that this is good for SEO, although personally, I still prefer the panel on the left as I am so used to Wikipedia. Yes, contributed 2 years full time to Malay Wikipedia and from there, graduated into starting one Malay website, followed by several English websites.
You mentioned: "... perhaps someday you'd want visitors to contribute or at least visit those pages as well." Hahaha... I have been a lone ranger for 2 years and although the website is open for registration, there are no voluntary contributors except a few friends that I bribed with one thing or another, LOL. But it is okay... so used to it now that I wonder whether I will now feel uneasy if I suddenly see one unexpected contribution.
PM Poon
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Katharina Wolkwitz wolkwitz@fh-swf.dewrote:
Hi Poon,
I think you should leave the banner as it is, especially as you're already using quite a lot of colour on your webside.
I think looking plain instead of ostentatious/overcharged (I'm not sure how to phrase that right) is very much preferable for logos. Your logo is clear and catchy as it is and very well adaptable to different colour-schemes without loosing it's effectiveness.
Ekompute .info schrieb am 14.08.2009 09:20:
Hi Katharina, thank you very much for your kind comments. I was not
thinking
of blowing up the banner to fill the whole screen. I think this size for
the
logo is about right, or maybe add another 10%.
You should try to keep all the logos the same size or at least have a distinct size graduation. At the moment, when one switches between http://dummipedia.org and http://dummipedia.com the size-difference is too small to feel/look intentional. It rather seems like an unintended mistake.
There is a German saying "Gewollt und nicht gekonnt" (for which I've just found the one translation "Close, but no cigar") that puts that kind of feeling/look in one sentence.
If you're using different (font-)sizes, they have to be different enough to look deliberate.
I was thinking of having a colored banner so that it doesn't look too plain. Maybe adding some graphics on the right. I have 8 Mediawiki sites using this same skin that I tried to develop with the help of this forum. Sometimes just
changing
the color as in Dummipedia.comhttp://dummipedia.com/Gone_with_the_Wind_%28film%29 . Yes, regarding the menu bar. I agree with you that the red is hard to
read.
But as all my websites have no other contributors except yours truly, I didn't thought it was a problem. On the contrary, those are empty pages
so
if visitors do not see the words, it may actually turn out to be better
for
them, LOL.
You're rigth both times, but perhaps someday you'd want visitors to contribute or at least visit those pages as well... ;-)
Good luck! Katharina
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Poon,
I'll second Katharina's recommendation to leave your banner positioned and (non-) colored, as it is.
What prompted me to go look at your site, though, was Katharina's comment about the potential difficulty someone who is color-blind (as we call it, at least here in the U.S.) might have with your red menu items against the green background. Being color-blind myself, I thought it would be interesting to see an example where it matters.
So I pulled up your site, and spent a minute or two hunting around the page trying to find out what she was referring to, and thinking you must have changed it already, since I couldn't find anything like that.
Then I saw your followup, which suggested you hadn't (yet) changed it, looked at the page again ..... oooohhh, those funny gaps in the menus there below the "Log in" line - I see now, there's shimmery red text hiding there! :-) So yes, very effectively near invisible!
And kudos to Katharina for thinking of us color blind folks - it's an issue that doesn't seem to get a lot of, um, visibility :-)
Paul
On Aug 14, 2009, at 2:54 AM, Katharina Wolkwitz wrote:
Hi Poon,
I like the banner the way it is - on the left side of the screen. Zooming it to fill the whole screen-width would "blow it up" too much.
But I've got a visibility problem with your menu-bar. The red menu- items are very hard to see on the dark green background. I guess people with limited sight or those with red green (colour) deficiency might have problems seeing those items at all.
Best wishes Katharina
Ekompute .info schrieb am 13.08.2009 20:47:
Hi Mike, my website is http://dummipedia.org
I am referring to the topmost row.
Regards, PM Poon
______________ Paul C Lustgarten Applied Research, Enterprise 2.0 AT&T Labs - Research Florham Park, NJ +1 973 360 7206
Hi Paul, thank you for your note. I think it has nothing to do with being color blind in this case. Even for me who is not color blind, I also have a problem squinting my eye to see what those words are. But red is typically used for non-existent page... unless I change the color of the bar to create contrast. But in the meantime, I think not being able to read those non-existent links is better than being able to do it. It results in less clutter. Once the page is written, those links become white so they become highly visible. So there is good reason for keeping things as it is at the moment. I will change it one day when circumstances change.. ie. when there are a few active contributors. But looking at my past 2 years record, I am not so optimistic, LOL... hence my apparent reluctance to do so at the moment.
PM Poon
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Paul C Lustgarten plus@research.att.comwrote:
Poon,
I'll second Katharina's recommendation to leave your banner positioned and (non-) colored, as it is.
What prompted me to go look at your site, though, was Katharina's comment about the potential difficulty someone who is color-blind (as we call it, at least here in the U.S.) might have with your red menu items against the green background. Being color-blind myself, I thought it would be interesting to see an example where it matters.
So I pulled up your site, and spent a minute or two hunting around the page trying to find out what she was referring to, and thinking you must have changed it already, since I couldn't find anything like that.
Then I saw your followup, which suggested you hadn't (yet) changed it, looked at the page again ..... oooohhh, those funny gaps in the menus there below the "Log in" line - I see now, there's shimmery red text hiding there! :-) So yes, very effectively near invisible!
And kudos to Katharina for thinking of us color blind folks - it's an issue that doesn't seem to get a lot of, um, visibility :-)
PaulOn Aug 14, 2009, at 2:54 AM, Katharina Wolkwitz wrote:
Hi Poon,
I like the banner the way it is - on the left side of the screen. Zooming it to fill the whole screen-width would "blow it up" too much.
But I've got a visibility problem with your menu-bar. The red menu- items are very hard to see on the dark green background. I guess people with limited sight or those with red green (colour) deficiency might have problems seeing those items at all.
Best wishes Katharina
Ekompute .info schrieb am 13.08.2009 20:47:
Hi Mike, my website is http://dummipedia.org
I am referring to the topmost row.
Regards, PM Poon
Paul C Lustgarten Applied Research, Enterprise 2.0 AT&T Labs - Research Florham Park, NJ +1 973 360 7206
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