I'm currently in the proces of setting up a MediaWiki site, using v.1.3.8. I was overwhelmingly surprised at the ease of setting things up, and everything works quite well, (although a few things does not yet so). I have a number of questions, I would like to have shed some light on. And this seems like a good place to ask them. (Maybe someone would one day collect the questions asked here, and expand on the online documentation on the WikiMedia site help pages? -maybe I can contribute to that some day...!) I intend to upgrade to v1.4 as soon as it is out, so if any of the following is too much trouble with v1.3.8 and will be solved with v1.4 I would like to know.
LANGUAGE
What is causing me the most trouble is the language issue, and the special messages. While I intend the site to be informative and inviting to global users, I reckon it will mostly be used by danish-speaking local people, cooperating on creative projects and expanding a base of knowledge.
When setting up the wiki, I decided to set up with the english version of the text, which it seems I am now stuck with? -is it possible to change the interface language from english to danish (including all the special messages) after setup and with a growing database? - which files are relevant?
Is it possible with MediaWiki 1.4 for users to specify their preferred site language in their preferences, for the interface and system messages? - how is this managed more precisely? - Which files will still be of concern to me, after the install of MediaWiki 1.4?
Is it possible to limit the languages available to users, if one cannot commit to customizing one's wiki to all kinds of languages? -or the system messages can be kept to such a minimum, that I won't have to (which I doubt)?
IMAGES
Another concern of mine, is images. Since my server runs in PHP Safe Mode, image upload is automatically disabled (I strongly suppose that is why it doesn't work, even though all the flags should be correct). I'd really want image upload to be enabled, so what are my alternatives?
-will this be solved in MediaWiki v1.4.? -as suggested in the beta release document? -can I alternatively add the information included when uploading to the database by directly querying the MySQL db myself, and uploading the images manually via FTP? - this would be the best solution to get me started for real using images, if possible. Right now all I do is manually upload images and create tables with direct links to them. Clearly this is not an optimal solution and use of the software. And it breaks the creative flow, as all images will have to go through the administrator.
OTHER QUESTIONS & COMMENTS
How does one best limit the menu items, user preferences or special pages of no relevance to one's customization? Which files are the important ones to meddle with, to remove, say, certain skins, from being selectable by a user? The site has been designed with a site-particular skin, a modified monobook-css etc. and you don't want the site style to appear otherwise to the user. How do you do that?
Why not keep all the system messages within the file system, easily accessible from the root system, - and keep them all out of the wiki?
There are quite a few "wikipedia leftovers" for instance, in the special messages, such as a number of unneccessary references or links, that are empty, and a bit of a hazzle to track down and eliminate. No need to refer in the special messages to a 'policy' if a small site doesn't have one (yet)... No need either IMO to wet everything in a copyright/disclaimer context, if the site in question or users has no need for them, but only loads their base engine with existing links to a lot of non-creative empty 'paragraph pages' (and all that even before there's any creative content).
This is just constructive criticism - so far from ever becoming a programmer myself, I can only hack, copy n' paste and learn bits everywhere. I love the power of the wiki concept - I feel I am witnessing the maturing of the internet and its real creative power here. Keep up the good work :-)
Cheers :-) -- Morten Blaabjerg morten@crewscut.com Tlf. +45 65 90 60 88
Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Hello Morten,
LANGUAGE
<snip>
When setting up the wiki, I decided to set up with the english version of the text, which it seems I am now stuck with? -is it possible to change the interface language from english to danish (including all the special messages) after setup and with a growing database? - which files are relevant?
We are not that evil.
Change your wgLang variable in localsettings then you will have to rebuild the messages wich are in the database. To do that you have to use a script in a console:
./maintenance/rebuildMessages.php
You probably want to delete them all and rebuild a new one :/
Is it possible with MediaWiki 1.4 for users to specify their preferred site language in their preferences, for the interface and system messages? - how is this managed more precisely? - Which files will still be of concern to me, after the install of MediaWiki 1.4?
In 1.4 the messages can be either:
1/ site wide messages using $wgLang . They remain the same for all users and are used for the interface mostly. 2/ per user preferences.
You can set the default language to be danish and users can override it in their preferences to something list (ex: chinese, finish, english ..). You can probably test it on http://test.wikipedia.org/ .
Is it possible to limit the languages available to users, if one cannot commit to customizing one's wiki to all kinds of languages? -or the system messages can be kept to such a minimum, that I won't have to (which I doubt)?
You can select them (in 1.4) using:
$wgUserLanguages = array('en', 'fr');
Users will only be able to switch between english and french.
IMAGES
<snip: I dont know about php safe :( >
OTHER QUESTIONS & COMMENTS
How does one best limit the menu items, user preferences or special pages of no relevance to one's customization? Which files are the important ones to meddle with, to remove, say, certain skins, from being selectable by a user? The site has been designed with a site-particular skin, a modified monobook-css etc. and you don't want the site style to appear otherwise to the user. How do you do that?
iirc in 1.3 you have to edit ./includes/Skins.php
You can also use $wgDefaultSkin in LocalSettings to change the default skin (ex: 'nostalgia' ).
Why not keep all the system messages within the file system, easily accessible from the root system, - and keep them all out of the wiki?
MediaWiki is developed for wikipedia wich have like 150 languages. Developers had a hard time patching the languages files other and other. So someone (Tim Starling / Brion ?) came with the idea to let users edit the interface themselves instead of begging for the language files to be updated manually :p
You can use the language files directly with: $wgUseDatabaseMessages = false;
But you will no more be able to use MediaWiki: namespace to edit the interface :p
There are quite a few "wikipedia leftovers" for instance, in the special messages, such as a number of unneccessary references or links, that are empty, and a bit of a hazzle to track down and eliminate. No need to refer in the special messages to a 'policy' if a small site doesn't have one (yet)... No need either IMO to wet everything in a copyright/disclaimer context, if the site in question or users has no need for them, but only loads their base engine with existing links to a lot of non-creative empty 'paragraph pages' (and all that even before there's any creative content).
I believe most wikipedia occurences have been removed from 1.4 language files. As for the copyright you can disable some with:
$wgRightsPage = NULL; $wgRightsUrl = NULL; $wgRightsText = NULL; $wgRightsIcon = NULL
$wgUseCopyrightUpload = false; $wgCheckCopyrightUpload = false;
As for the messages coming from the languages files, you will have to edit them. As for the hardcoded link, they will probably filled in a later version when we add some documentation in MediaWiki :o)
This is just constructive criticism - so far from ever becoming a programmer myself, I can only hack, copy n' paste and learn bits everywhere. I love the power of the wiki concept - I feel I am witnessing the maturing of the internet and its real creative power here. Keep up the good work :-)
Thanks Morten ! Keep asking question don't be shy, that's how free softwares get better :-)
cheers,
Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
When setting up the wiki, I decided to set up with the english version of the text, which it seems I am now stuck with? -is it possible to change the interface language from english to danish (including all the special messages) after setup and with a growing database? - which files are relevant?
We are not that evil.
Change your wgLang variable in localsettings then you will have to rebuild the messages wich are in the database. To do that you have to use a script in a console:
./maintenance/rebuildMessages.php
You probably want to delete them all and rebuild a new one :/
Seems doable without as much work as I thought... Will give it a go. Am I right in assuming, that the script will run on the server, when run from the browser subject line?
Thanx for the helpful conclusive instructions and background information - on the skins, system messages and everything - has already been very helpful, and will very much come in handy when I delve into further updating and customizing the site:-)
Thanx again! Morten :-)
Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
Change your wgLang variable in localsettings then you will have to rebuild the messages wich are in the database. To do that you have to use a script in a console:
./maintenance/rebuildMessages.php
You probably want to delete them all and rebuild a new one :/
I've run into trouble at this point - after changing the language variable in localsettings.php, I want to rebuild all the system messages. How precisely do I run the rebuildmessages script, when I cannot run it from the webbrowser (which I can't, understandably, for security reasons) - ? What is a "console" ? - is it possible to run this script, when I run my site on an external server?
Kind regards, Morten :-)
-- Crews Cut Community http://www.crewscut.com
Morten Blaabjerg Dronningensgade 4B, DK-5000 Odense C. Tlf. +45 65 90 60 88
Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
What is a "console"? - is it possible to run this script, when I run my site on an external server?
Hi, Morten!
You'll need Shell access to run the command from the console
# cd /home/youraccount/www/wiki/maintenance # php rebuildMessages.php
Plamen
Plamen Gradinarov wrote:
Hi, Morten!
You'll need Shell access to run the command from the console
# cd /home/youraccount/www/wiki/maintenance # php rebuildMessages.php
Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
What is a "console"? - is it possible to run this script, when I run my site on an external server?
Probably just a misunderstanding, but anyway:
"console" in this context simply refers to your command prompt, also known as "CLI" (=command line interface), aka "shell", aka "terminal". In Windows, your console can be found by clicking Start - Run and typing either "cmd" or "command". In Mac OS X, your console can be found by going to Applications - Utilities - Terminal. With BSD/UNIX/Linux OSes the location of your console in your GUI depends on your window server and distribution, though if absolutely stuck you should always be able to reach the shell be quitting XWindows.
What seems to be required in your case is to type something at your web server's console.
Web servers (ie. the respective computers) also have a console (ie. the console of their respective OS) and unless you're one of those poor sods whose hosting server is Windows based, your web server should have a UNIX-ish console. Accessing that can however be a challenge if you don't run your own server (ie. if you're renting shared server space from somebody else). In theory it should be easy: you need an SSH program and remotely access the server's console with that. However, if you're just starting out with MediaWiki, then maybe you're still with a host who doesn't allow you SSH access. Many, many paranoid and/or less confident/knowledgeable hosts don't allow SSH access. In that case you can either tell the host's support staff to please type in the respective commands or find a host that does allow SSH access.
'Hope this helps.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com
Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
Change your wgLang variable in localsettings then you will have to rebuild the messages wich are in the database. To do that you have to use a script in a console:
./maintenance/rebuildMessages.php
You probably want to delete them all and rebuild a new one :/
I've run into trouble at this point - after changing the language variable in localsettings.php, I want to rebuild all the system messages. How precisely do I run the rebuildmessages script, when I cannot run it from the webbrowser (which I can't, understandably, for security reasons) - ? What is a "console" ? - is it possible to run this script, when I run my site on an external server?
Hello Morten,
Maybe you can try rerunning the installer script: http://yourhost/wiki/config/
You will have to make a backup of your LocalSettings.php file since the installer script will not run if you already have one. The installer should run the updater script or at least regenerate mediawiki: messages.
As for the console, Jens Ropers send a message explaining it all.
cheers,
Maybe you can try rerunning the installer script: http://yourhost/wiki/config/ You will have to make a backup of your LocalSettings.php file since
the installer script will not run if you already have one. The installer should run the updater script or at least regenerate mediawiki: messages.
Hello, Ashar!
Do you think it is possible to rebuild all messages of the English Wikipedia to comply with UTF-8 as the language for any future contribution?
Best, Plamen
Thanx, Ashar and Jens.
I tried rerunning the install (after removing temporarily my localsettings.php) - all it does is saying I am configured, and does not reload the messages. Unfortunately I cannot get command-line acess to the server, from my host, and they wouldn't run the script for me. Got no explanation why not - it seems I will have to find another host in the new year, who will be more flexible and serviceminded.
Is there a way to get the language changed in the meantime? - can I somehow run the updater script in another way, without the above options?
Morten :-)
Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
Maybe you can try rerunning the installer script: http://yourhost/wiki/config/
You will have to make a backup of your LocalSettings.php file since the installer script will not run if you already have one. The installer should run the updater script or at least regenerate mediawiki: messages.
As for the console, Jens Ropers send a message explaining it all.
cheers,
-- Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar Servers in trouble ? noc (at) wikimedia (dot) org "This signature is a virus. Copy me in yours to spread it."
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
-- Crews Cut Community http://www.crewscut.com
Morten Blaabjerg Dronningensgade 4B, DK-5000 Odense C. Tlf. +45 65 90 60 88
If absolutely stuck there may be the option for you do a complete install on a local machine (which you control and where you do have shell access) and then copy each and every file to the server -- though I've never tried this and I couldn't really help with this. This is purely a weird suggestion.
-- ropers
On 22 Dec 2004, at 18:19, Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Thanx, Ashar and Jens.
I tried rerunning the install (after removing temporarily my localsettings.php) - all it does is saying I am configured, and does not reload the messages. Unfortunately I cannot get command-line acess to the server, from my host, and they wouldn't run the script for me. Got no explanation why not - it seems I will have to find another host in the new year, who will be more flexible and serviceminded.
Is there a way to get the language changed in the meantime? - can I somehow run the updater script in another way, without the above options?
Morten :-)
Hmmm - this wouldn't rebuild the messages in my current database, but create a new database for me. Anyway, I hope all this switching languages/customization stuff becomes a whole lot easier with MediaWiki v1.4. -I've had a good deal of trouble doing it, and practically getting nowhere.
Morten :-)
Jens Ropers wrote:
If absolutely stuck there may be the option for you do a complete install on a local machine (which you control and where you do have shell access) and then copy each and every file to the server -- though I've never tried this and I couldn't really help with this. This is purely a weird suggestion.
-- ropers
On 22 Dec 2004, at 18:19, Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Thanx, Ashar and Jens.
I tried rerunning the install (after removing temporarily my localsettings.php) - all it does is saying I am configured, and does not reload the messages. Unfortunately I cannot get command-line acess to the server, from my host, and they wouldn't run the script for me. Got no explanation why not - it seems I will have to find another host in the new year, who will be more flexible and serviceminded.
Is there a way to get the language changed in the meantime? - can I somehow run the updater script in another way, without the above options?
Morten :-)
-- Crews Cut Community http://www.crewscut.com
Morten Blaabjerg Dronningensgade 4B, DK-5000 Odense C. Tlf. +45 65 90 60 88
On Dec 18, 2004, at 5:00 AM, Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Another concern of mine, is images. Since my server runs in PHP Safe Mode, image upload is automatically disabled
Image upload is *always* automatically disabled. This is for security reasons; uploading arbitrary data to your web server is potentially dangerous, and it's a) safer to have it off and b) it wouldn't work anyway until you fix up permissions in the images directory.
Search the list archives for previous questions about uploads in safe mode. (Use google and add site:mail.wikipedia.org to your query.)
In 1.4 you can now suppress the hashed subdirectories (which cause most of the trouble with Safe Mode) but you may still need to add temp, archive, and thumb subdirectories and make them all writable. Set $wgHashedUploadDirectory = false in LocalSettings.php
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Thanx, that was very helpful! Turns out it was really simple, after all, and it seems I've got Image Upload working now, in Safe Mode! - was using an FTP program that didn't allow me to set folder properties, but found a new one, which did - and everything seems to be all fine now :-)
Thanx! Morten :-)
Brion Vibber wrote:
On Dec 18, 2004, at 5:00 AM, Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Another concern of mine, is images. Since my server runs in PHP Safe Mode, image upload is automatically disabled
Image upload is *always* automatically disabled. This is for security reasons; uploading arbitrary data to your web server is potentially dangerous, and it's a) safer to have it off and b) it wouldn't work anyway until you fix up permissions in the images directory.
Search the list archives for previous questions about uploads in safe mode. (Use google and add site:mail.wikipedia.org to your query.)
In 1.4 you can now suppress the hashed subdirectories (which cause most of the trouble with Safe Mode) but you may still need to add temp, archive, and thumb subdirectories and make them all writable. Set $wgHashedUploadDirectory = false in LocalSettings.php
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Apparently I was a bit too hasty. Got the image upload working and got a nice formatting of them too on the pages. But the automated thumbs won't work. It gives the following if I try to add a 'thumb' or - say a '180px' property to an image :
Warning: shell_exec(): Cannot execute using backquotes in Safe Mode in /customers/crewscut.com/crewscut.com/httpd.www/includes/Image.php on line 246
Warning: stat(): Stat failed for /customers/crewscut.com/crewscut.com/httpd.www/images/thumb/8/80/180px-JJ_Sarup.jpg (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in /customers/crewscut.com/crewscut.com/httpd.www/includes/Image.php on line 313
Warning: unlink(/customers/crewscut.com/crewscut.com/httpd.www/images/thumb/8/80/180px-JJ_Sarup.jpg): No such file or directory in /customers/crewscut.com/crewscut.com/httpd.www/includes/Image.php on line 316
Anyone knows what to do to make thumbs work also? A search of the mail archives revealed no immediate result, although it is apparent, that there are widespread problems with the PHP safe mode. (I run our site on a external server, without a say in the configuration of PHP on the server).
Kind regards, Morten :-)
Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Thanx, that was very helpful! Turns out it was really simple, after all, and it seems I've got Image Upload working now, in Safe Mode! - was using an FTP program that didn't allow me to set folder properties, but found a new one, which did - and everything seems to be all fine now :-)
Thanx! Morten :-)
Brion Vibber wrote:
On Dec 18, 2004, at 5:00 AM, Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Another concern of mine, is images. Since my server runs in PHP Safe Mode, image upload is automatically disabled
Image upload is *always* automatically disabled. This is for security reasons; uploading arbitrary data to your web server is potentially dangerous, and it's a) safer to have it off and b) it wouldn't work anyway until you fix up permissions in the images directory.
Search the list archives for previous questions about uploads in safe mode. (Use google and add site:mail.wikipedia.org to your query.)
In 1.4 you can now suppress the hashed subdirectories (which cause most of the trouble with Safe Mode) but you may still need to add temp, archive, and thumb subdirectories and make them all writable. Set $wgHashedUploadDirectory = false in LocalSettings.php
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
On Dec 19, 2004, at 4:11 PM, Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Warning: shell_exec(): Cannot execute using backquotes in Safe Mode in /customers/crewscut.com/crewscut.com/httpd.www/includes/Image.php on line 246
It's trying to use ImageMagick to resize images, but you aren't allowed to shell out to external programs.
If your PHP installation has GD library support, you can use that: comment out the $wgUseImageMagick line in LocalSettings.php and it will fall back to that.
If you don't have GD library support, then you're out of luck.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Thanx, man! - it worked like a charm! Morten :-)
Brion Vibber wrote:
On Dec 19, 2004, at 4:11 PM, Morten Blaabjerg wrote:
Warning: shell_exec(): Cannot execute using backquotes in Safe Mode in /customers/crewscut.com/crewscut.com/httpd.www/includes/Image.php on line 246
It's trying to use ImageMagick to resize images, but you aren't allowed to shell out to external programs.
If your PHP installation has GD library support, you can use that: comment out the $wgUseImageMagick line in LocalSettings.php and it will fall back to that.
If you don't have GD library support, then you're out of luck.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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