1 - More than one of my posts has bounced back because either: - the moderator thinks is inappropriate (to complex?); - because a list auto-setting complains that my post is too big (to complex?). Hey, if I had simple problems ...
2 - The list recently, at least, has taken w-a-y too long to arrive for me to depend on it for contemporaneous solutions. By the time the digest arrives, it's not only bereft of responses, but it's w-a-y too late, and I've moved on to other resources and other problems.
So, is this list MediaWiki-l dead or dying? Do we all find each other off list instead, and the l-o-n-g time between broadcasts is an indication that this list has little or no function after all?
Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for, really?
Why not setup a real ***wiki*** discussion right at the MediaWiki.org home pages, and encourage the MediaWiki software to actually mature to handle such support needs as ours, instead of using an old-fashioned mailing list like this?
Your 2 cents?
- Peter Blaise
I am growing frustrated with your messages. Nobody is forcing you to use, view, or post to this mailing list.
If you want people's responses when they send them, why sign up to the digest version? You can change your settings at lists.wikimedia.org.
There is support available on MediaWiki.org: mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk. There's also #mediawik at irc.freenode.net.
This list is a fantastic resource and you have done nothing but rubbish it or complain. Remember, we don't owe you anything, but as we're nice people, we'll try and help. We're all also human, and we have limits.
On 23/05/07, Monahon, Peter B. Peter.Monahon@uspto.gov wrote:
1 - More than one of my posts has bounced back because either:
- the moderator thinks is inappropriate (to complex?);
- because a list auto-setting complains that my post is too big (to
complex?). Hey, if I had simple problems ...
2 - The list recently, at least, has taken w-a-y too long to arrive for me to depend on it for contemporaneous solutions. By the time the digest arrives, it's not only bereft of responses, but it's w-a-y too late, and I've moved on to other resources and other problems.
So, is this list MediaWiki-l dead or dying? Do we all find each other off list instead, and the l-o-n-g time between broadcasts is an indication that this list has little or no function after all?
Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for, really?
Why not setup a real ***wiki*** discussion right at the MediaWiki.org home pages, and encourage the MediaWiki software to actually mature to handle such support needs as ours, instead of using an old-fashioned mailing list like this?
Your 2 cents?
- Peter Blaise
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
I can see both sides to this discussion: there does seem to be a lack of response on the mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk page, and on this mailing list, to certain *but not all* questions. From my experience anyway. But, I appreciate that people are offering their time to help strangers. So, as I say I can see both sides.
Anyway if you don't like something don't continue reading it, is my motto when it comes to the Internet...
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Kirk" gary.kirk@gmail.com To: "MediaWiki announcements and site admin list" mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [Mediawiki-l] Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for,really?
I am growing frustrated with your messages. Nobody is forcing you to use, view, or post to this mailing list.
If you want people's responses when they send them, why sign up to the digest version? You can change your settings at lists.wikimedia.org.
There is support available on MediaWiki.org: mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk. There's also #mediawik at irc.freenode.net.
This list is a fantastic resource and you have done nothing but rubbish it or complain. Remember, we don't owe you anything, but as we're nice people, we'll try and help. We're all also human, and we have limits.
On 23/05/07, Monahon, Peter B. Peter.Monahon@uspto.gov wrote:
1 - More than one of my posts has bounced back because either:
- the moderator thinks is inappropriate (to complex?);
- because a list auto-setting complains that my post is too big (to
complex?). Hey, if I had simple problems ...
2 - The list recently, at least, has taken w-a-y too long to arrive for me to depend on it for contemporaneous solutions. By the time the digest arrives, it's not only bereft of responses, but it's w-a-y too late, and I've moved on to other resources and other problems.
So, is this list MediaWiki-l dead or dying? Do we all find each other off list instead, and the l-o-n-g time between broadcasts is an indication that this list has little or no function after all?
Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for, really?
Why not setup a real ***wiki*** discussion right at the MediaWiki.org home pages, and encourage the MediaWiki software to actually mature to handle such support needs as ours, instead of using an old-fashioned mailing list like this?
Your 2 cents?
- Peter Blaise
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
-- Gary Kirk
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
On 5/23/07, Monahon, Peter B. Peter.Monahon@uspto.gov wrote:
Why not setup a real ***wiki*** discussion right at the MediaWiki.org home pages, and encourage the MediaWiki software to actually mature to handle such support needs as ours, instead of using an old-fashioned mailing list like this?
Agreed! For the amount I'm paying MediaWiki for this support contract they darned-well need to start providing sufficient, modern support. Why this isn't being handled by a voice-activated phone system, or a live-chat system, is beyond me.
Spare us, please. MediaWiki can't provide support because your employer awarded a patent for technical support to Microsoft.
Many people have had their problems solved using this list, it is very useful indeed. If you need a quick response use the irc channel. But remember MediaWiki is FOSS so support is not required and we aren't being paid to give it.
On 23/05/07, Monahon, Peter B. Peter.Monahon@uspto.gov wrote:
1 - More than one of my posts has bounced back because either:
- the moderator thinks is inappropriate (to complex?);
- because a list auto-setting complains that my post is too big (to
complex?). Hey, if I had simple problems ...
2 - The list recently, at least, has taken w-a-y too long to arrive for me to depend on it for contemporaneous solutions. By the time the digest arrives, it's not only bereft of responses, but it's w-a-y too late, and I've moved on to other resources and other problems.
So, is this list MediaWiki-l dead or dying? Do we all find each other off list instead, and the l-o-n-g time between broadcasts is an indication that this list has little or no function after all?
Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for, really?
Why not setup a real ***wiki*** discussion right at the MediaWiki.org home pages, and encourage the MediaWiki software to actually mature to handle such support needs as ours, instead of using an old-fashioned mailing list like this?
Your 2 cents?
- Peter Blaise
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
Monahon, Peter B. wrote:
1 - More than one of my posts has bounced back because either:
- the moderator thinks is inappropriate (to complex?);
- because a list auto-setting complains that my post is too big (to
complex?). Hey, if I had simple problems ...
The maximum message body size is 40KB. The list is unmoderated.
2 - The list recently, at least, has taken w-a-y too long to arrive for me to depend on it for contemporaneous solutions. By the time the digest arrives, it's not only bereft of responses, but it's w-a-y too late, and I've moved on to other resources and other problems.
Then don't use digest delivery, use individual message delivery or gmane.org. At least that way you wouldn't keep breaking the threading.
So, is this list MediaWiki-l dead or dying? Do we all find each other off list instead, and the l-o-n-g time between broadcasts is an indication that this list has little or no function after all?
No it is not dead or dying. The digest frequency has no relation to the quality of support it provides.
Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for, really?
It is good for answering a certain kind of question which is not too hard and not too easy. This is my experience of all kinds of volunteer question answering, both offline and online. If a question is too easy, the reader would take no pride in answering it, and may consider it insulting or patronising. If the question is too hard, there may be no readers capable of answering it.
Your questions, e.g. "how do I install MediaWiki on Windows", seem to be on the easy end of that scale. The best people for answering easy questions are paid support staff, but Wikimedia doesn't have any of them. I am paid, but I am a developer, not a support technician, and my priority is to help Wikimedia users.
We do have a few volunteers here with a tremendous amount of patience for answering tedious, easy questions, and I have a great deal of respect for them. But you have to be nice to them if you want them to help you.
Particularly time-consuming requests for help will hardly ever be met by a volunteer, unless the volunteer shares your goals.
Why not setup a real ***wiki*** discussion right at the MediaWiki.org home pages, and encourage the MediaWiki software to actually mature to handle such support needs as ours, instead of using an old-fashioned mailing list like this?
We do have a wiki. We also have IRC and a forum at mwusers.com. But the motives for volunteers there are exactly the same as here. So a question that goes unanswered here may well go unanswered everywhere. Buying commercial support is the obvious solution to this problem.
-- Tim Starling
Peter:
You seem to be confusing things. MediaWiki-l discusses issues concerning *MediaWiki* (and WikiMedia).
This list is alive an very helpful to people who have issues concerning MediaWiki.
You do not currently seem to need help with this. What it seems that you need help with is:
* Apache (with PHP) * MySQL
What I would recommend you do is:
a) Download Apache binaries, start a webserver, make sure it works on the intranet 1) if you have any issues, contact Apache support people b) Integrate PHP into Apache -- make sure this works on your intranet 1) if you have any issues, contact Apache support people (or PHP support people) c) Install a MySQL database - make sure you understand user permissions, etc. 1) if you have any issues, contact MySQL support people d) Integrate MySQL with PHP -- again, *MAKE SURE THIS ALL WORKS ON YOUR INTRANET* 1) if you have any issues, contact PHP support people
Then you can download and extract MediaWiki, and then proceed to install it through your web browser.
If you cannot solve all of these steps or do not want to have to RTFM, then hire somebody to do it for you.
People will only answer these trivial questions if they are paid. Most people here have enough experience being sysadmins that taking the time to walk you through these questions are similar to explaining to someone how to hit the "on" button on their computer.
Sorry to be blunt, but you are attacking an infrastructure that has been around for a long time and is really, very useful (mailing lists) because you are having troubles grasping basic sysadmin jobs -- doesn't put me in the greatest of moods.
On 5/23/07, Tim Starling tstarling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Monahon, Peter B. wrote:
1 - More than one of my posts has bounced back because either:
- the moderator thinks is inappropriate (to complex?);
- because a list auto-setting complains that my post is too big (to
complex?). Hey, if I had simple problems ...
The maximum message body size is 40KB. The list is unmoderated.
2 - The list recently, at least, has taken w-a-y too long to arrive for me to depend on it for contemporaneous solutions. By the time the digest arrives, it's not only bereft of responses, but it's w-a-y too late, and I've moved on to other resources and other problems.
Then don't use digest delivery, use individual message delivery or gmane.org. At least that way you wouldn't keep breaking the threading.
So, is this list MediaWiki-l dead or dying? Do we all find each other off list instead, and the l-o-n-g time between broadcasts is an indication that this list has little or no function after all?
No it is not dead or dying. The digest frequency has no relation to the quality of support it provides.
Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for, really?
It is good for answering a certain kind of question which is not too hard and not too easy. This is my experience of all kinds of volunteer question answering, both offline and online. If a question is too easy, the reader would take no pride in answering it, and may consider it insulting or patronising. If the question is too hard, there may be no readers capable of answering it.
Your questions, e.g. "how do I install MediaWiki on Windows", seem to be on the easy end of that scale. The best people for answering easy questions are paid support staff, but Wikimedia doesn't have any of them. I am paid, but I am a developer, not a support technician, and my priority is to help Wikimedia users.
We do have a few volunteers here with a tremendous amount of patience for answering tedious, easy questions, and I have a great deal of respect for them. But you have to be nice to them if you want them to help you.
Particularly time-consuming requests for help will hardly ever be met by a volunteer, unless the volunteer shares your goals.
Why not setup a real ***wiki*** discussion right at the MediaWiki.org home pages, and encourage the MediaWiki software to actually mature to handle such support needs as ours, instead of using an old-fashioned mailing list like this?
We do have a wiki. We also have IRC and a forum at mwusers.com. But the motives for volunteers there are exactly the same as here. So a question that goes unanswered here may well go unanswered everywhere. Buying commercial support is the obvious solution to this problem.
-- Tim Starling
MediaWiki-l mailing list MediaWiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org