Earlier: "... I have NO INTEREST in users being able to edit "in place" on the same page ... at the very LEAST the user should be doing so on a page which is separate from the presented html, such as through the present use of the Edit link..."

Peter Blaise responds: ... because?

Now, I can see doing something on screen to remind the visitor they have changed modes. An [Editing] watermark? But, why reformat the exact thing they are looking at, the exact thing they want to edit, and make them go to a new layout to re-find it all over again? I think the current system keeps contributions lower than could be. That's probably acceptable from a support point of view. However, I think it limits contributions to a sub-set of all visitors, limits editing to technically savvy and patient people, and that limits Wikipedia, that limits ANY wiki.

The reason I suggest IPE In Place Editing is because that's what I see the end users try to do first when told that they can "edit every page".

They see a blinking cursor in the text exactly where they want to make a change, and so, they immediately start typing, right there on the page, where they want to.

They know they can highlight text in a web page, just like in a text editor, so there's no immediate feedback that they can't also edit every page that way.

They know they can cut and paste text OUT of their browser into another program, just like a text editor when they see the exact same blinking cursor.

They know that it's really editable text underneath it all anyway, somehow.

So they just point, click to get a familiar blinking cursor, and of course they then want to immediately start editing. And they do. They actually start typing, right there on any web page - cool!

"Nooooo!", I have to say, "You have to scroll and click the [edit] link first ... then wait for a new window to open ... then scroll to a new edit frame in that new window ... then click inside that edit frame ... then scroll within the differently formatted copy of the original text you saw only moments ago to re-find the exact text (now in a different font, by the way) that you were just trying to edit ... then you can type your desired changes ... you do remember what you wanted to say, don't you?"

"Oh?" the potential wiki user asks. "Is there more?"

Could there possibly be more?

"Oh, yes," I say, "Then you have to save, of course, as with any data entry ... but ... remember to put in a summary to be courteous to the next viewers of the page history (what's that?) ... also select minor edit or not (what's that?) ... and you might want to preview a few times while you edit to make sure it's gonna look the way you want ... and you might want to download the Google toolbar first so you can spell check (at least the first 100 errors) since the wiki has no spell check ... then you can save ... and then, when it opened back up to a new window, you can take a final look at what you wrote that anyone else will see."

Whew!

"Hey, come back here, wiki editing is EASY! C'mon, give it a try ... don't walk away!"

As a Mediawiki trainer trying to bring in the next wave of adopters - those who haven't edited a wiki yet - I realize we're back in the syndrome of trying to redesign the customer, rather than redesign the product - DOH!

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So, back at ya - what's the problem you see in IPE In Place Editing / WYSIWYG What You See Is What You Get?

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Earlier: "... No problem with a SWYSIWYG interface ..."

Peter Blaise responds: Swysiwyg? Whassat?

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