Hi Karthik -
I'll step back from the conversation after this, but did want to say that
although I haven't been active in many discussions on this list, I've read
almost every conversation on every public list related to the Wikimedia
movement's activities in India for the last several years, as well as those
private lists which I have access to, so I'm not coming in completely out
of the blue (including a lot of the discussions and frustrations around the
catalyst program and how it was split off.) I'm not actively trying to
support CIS's practices, or say they should get their entire grant - I
haven't evaluated it on anywhere near an adequate basis to have an opinion
on it (I'm thoroughly obsessive about evaluating grants.) I do think it's
significant that they indicated an active desire to fix them over time
while not being unfair to their current employees - WMDC's most recent
grant brought up some questions about how Wikimedia movement affiliates
should be treating employees, and I think it will probably be necessary to
come up with movement wide standards at some point, where CIS may present
valuable guidance of a slightly different sort.
I understand where Ravi's frustrations are coming from (and I'm pretty sure
I've spoken more with WMIN members in my movement work than people
affiliated with CIS,) I just wanted to speak up when I saw someone with
advanced permissions on multiple projects actively suggest an action that,
if successful, would not be good, and even if not successful, won't be
good. I would highly encourage people to focus efforts in productive
directions, like improving local fundraising ability, or in participating
on some of the meta-movement discussions that are happening right now about
the FDC and its future, how we should expect movement affiliate employees
to be treated, etc. (Although I also can't blame anyone who feels a need
to step back out of frustration; the direction of Ravi's email just
concerned me.) I think it would even probably to do detailed post-mortems
as has started for the Belfer WiR posting to ensure that lessons learned
from past mistakes are not repeated (it's worth noting that many of those
involved in splitting off the catalyst programs have left the Foundation,
and a lot of their knowledge about what went wrong, including what mistakes
they may've made, may have left with them without being recorded.)
Best,
Kevin Gorman
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Karthik Nadar <karthikndr(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
When its about the Indian Community, I would further
appreciate if
community members from India write in here. There seems to be more to
foreign members defending CIS-A2K grant while it should be more of Indian
community either defending or chasing.
I think Gerard needs to understand the Indian Community from depth; not
keep on defending CIS-A2K just because you were supposed to run a project
with them. The volunteer community here can also do that. We have well
versed Wikidata contributors. Please see how the volunteer activities have
dropped down so tremendously since past two years.
Everyone's comment on the discussion is appreciated; doesn't matters in
support or in contrast againsy the FDC proposal of CIS-A2K. But, seriously
and on first basis, it should be coming from Indian community members not
from anyone who doesn't understand the current scenario here. General
comments from anyone is welcome, but please do some home-work first.
Hi Ravi,
I'm sure campaigning against donations to Wikimedia will bring the
movement in bad light; but something like campaigning for Wikimedia India
and deteriorating its dependency on WMF will be awesome. Wikimedia India
currently needs some legal help to initiate after which we believe
that this is something needs to be achieved with strong support from the
community.
WMF has already decided that it wants to create more and more mess here.
I'm sure to see that the CIS-A2K will get almost 100% for what they have
requested for [maybe more :P]. Things are all scripted and discussions are
mere drama. Creation of such a project is itself a great proof for that.
Another example is: When first employee of WMIN was hired, WMF created
such a mess out of it. When A2K was started, WMIN had to no chance to voice
out for or against it.
Please note: I don't have any personal intentions against CIS. They have
been so open and helpful to WMIN. Its the WMF attitude towards its focus in
India that creates trouble and mess. Thanks to Them!
Thanks,
Karthik Nadar.
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgorman(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I would equally suggest that trying to cut off or
limit the flow of funds
to the movement because you're upset that someone is being overpaid is
putting your personal interest above the movement's interest. I mean, if
you were literally successful in your stated goal, the movement would no
longer *exist*. I'm sure the FDC will take relevant factors in to
consideration when looking at CIS's request, there's no need for hyperbolic
calls to start a donation boycott. If this were truly just about
profligate spending, there's probably a hundred things in the Wikimedia
movement you could latch on to that are more outrageous.
---
Kevin Gorman
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Ravishankar <ravidreams(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Kevin,
It isn't about the exact numbers and percentages. It is about integrity.
You accept that you are getting over paid and yet you won't fix it, then
it is putting your personal interest above the movement's interest.
You call yourself a non-proft and yet you pay a salary that is far above
for-proft standards.
And when we ask for results or performance analysis, you say that we
can't measure that yet.
CIS acknowledges that it is over paying its
staff<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-201…
to industry standards and their own institution's salary
structure. Yet, 51.26% of their
budget<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_W…
to payments towards full time staff, resource persons and consultants
(line items 1, 7 and 11.2). This is against the guidelines issued to
the
FDC<http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2013-04-18#Guidance_for_…
rising cost of institutionalization.
This inflated structure is a mistake created by WMF and it should own
the responsibility of fixing it.
Just because movement funds are available in plenty, you don't go around
wasting it.
Ravi
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