On 12 September 2011 16:47, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
Copyright violations aren't only important from an academic plagiarism point of view but also legal and ethical, you seem to be only focusing on text based violation in Academia maybe. Commons users and admins spend the better part of their time educating themselves and dealing with these violations from different countries not because of some honesty issues but real legal ones.Violations more often than not, can lead to court cases, damages and expose the project to liability.
No doubt but the Commons/Source model is broken for cases like India where documents are in the public domain here but not in the USA. That said, I digress. I agree with you on the legal issues around copyvio and it is important from the WMF's point of view since they carry the can on this. What I was uncomfortable with was what I saw as perhaps an over-reaction to the issue. Sure, "rather safe than sorry" is a possible answer but it's not one I favour because we tend to err too much on the side of caution.
already complied with located here[1]. For images, I can attest to spending several hundred hours talking on IRC and looking for copyright terms of different countries to comply with.
No doubt, Theo and it's very important work too.
seriously. I am not sure if "Intellectual honesty" means ethics in this context but I would disagree if that is what WMF and other Wikipedians would be concerned about, it's really the legal liability that they expose WMF and projects to. Maybe Hisham can clarify.
Here's is what I was highlighting - yes, the issue of copyvio is important but given that this was in the context of an educational program, the larger issue ought to have been in the context of education - plagiarism and intellectual honesty and then about copyvio. If you're going to talk about copyvio as the most important element within an education program, it has a bearing on issues outside of just the Wikimedia movement and is a much larger discussion.
Second, if we don't uphold the "WMF policies" (they are actually project policies, not the foundation's) in an officially sanctioned and financed program, then who will?
Again - I'm not saying they don't matter. I'm saying the priorities are not in order.
As I saw it, you stated that copyright violations are no big deal, especially in India and the more important thing is being honest (Intellectually) when someone plagiarizes or something to that effect.
I think I have explained myself, above. Copyvio is important but in the current context, there are other elements that should have first been considered.
I am well aware of your position as a open-source book publisher and a Creative commons hero along with someone I respect, that was why I found your position very surprising on this issue.
Appreciate your kind words, Theo.