S4C have agreed to change their 'Usual You Tube licence' of videos on their 2017 Royal Welsh Show account (and previous years) to CCBYSA. This means we can upload around 2,000 videos to Commons. It also means that S4C, for the first time, have discussed and understood legality and benefits of open licencing, and could produce footage of other subjects.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrGrdJcnGuiCXMc3tCUvnA/videos
I gave them two options:
1. RTS (the simple option)
2. Change licence on You Tube to CC (recommended as it's visible on You Tube).
They say that they have changed the licence (using batch - manual historical), but that it's not visible on any of the videos on You Tube, and the videos don't appear in a Google CC search.
Any help please?
PS In due course we will need to transfer them over to Commons with a pilot patch of 10. Each video will need a 5 second subtitle saying "S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru". A project will then take place in order to subtitle the main points in English eg names of species, breeds, farm location. Clips from each video could also be taken, and placed in that breed's Category on Commons, Wikidata etc.
But first - the licence!
Robin Owain
Wikimedia UK
Yes I can help.
To ensure the videos aren't challenged on Commons we'll need formal confirmation from an authorised person at S4C to be sent to OTRS. If you could privately let me know details of the person who could provide the necessary confirmation I can draft a suitable email for them to send to OTRS. The uploaded files can then be tagged appropriately so that users don't start deleting them based on what they can see on YouTube.
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:10, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
S4C have agreed to change their 'Usual You Tube licence' of videos on their 2017 Royal Welsh Show account (and previous years) to CCBYSA. This means we can upload around 2,000 videos to Commons. It also means that S4C, for the first time, have discussed and understood legality and benefits of open licencing, and could produce footage of other subjects.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrGrdJcnGuiCXMc3tCUvnA/videos
I gave them two options:
RTS (the simple option)
Change licence on You Tube to CC (recommended as it's visible on You Tube).
They say that they have changed the licence (using batch - manual historical), but that it's not visible on any of the videos on You Tube, and the videos don't appear in a Google CC search.
Any help please?
PS In due course we will need to transfer them over to Commons with a pilot patch of 10. Each video will need a 5 second subtitle saying "S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru". A project will then take place in order to subtitle the main points in English eg names of species, breeds, farm location. Clips from each video could also be taken, and placed in that breed's Category on Commons, Wikidata etc.
But first - the licence!
Robin Owain
Wikimedia UK
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks Michael!
You recommend OTRS rather than change at You Tube? OK, I'll take your lead on this and email you asap.
Many thanks
Robin
On 24 October 2017 at 10:29 Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Yes I can help. To ensure the videos aren't challenged on Commons we'll need formal confirmation from an authorised person at S4C to be sent to OTRS. If you could privately let me know details of the person who could provide the necessary confirmation I can draft a suitable email for them to send to OTRS. The uploaded files can then be tagged appropriately so that users don't start deleting them based on what they can see on YouTube. Michael On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:10, Robin Owain <info@cymruwales.com mailto:info@cymruwales.com > wrote: > >S4C have agreed to change their 'Usual You Tube licence' of videos on their 2017 Royal Welsh Show account (and previous years) to CCBYSA. This means we can upload around 2,000 videos to Commons. It also means that S4C, for the first time, have discussed and understood legality and benefits of open licencing, and could produce footage of other subjects. Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrGrdJcnGuiCXMc3tCUvnA/videos I gave them two options: 1. RTS (the simple option) 2. Change licence on You Tube to CC (recommended as it's visible on You Tube). They say that they have changed the licence (using batch - manual historical), but that it's not visible on any of the videos on You Tube, and the videos don't appear in a Google CC search. Any help please? PS In due course we will need to transfer them over to Commons with a pilot patch of 10. Each video will need a 5 second subtitle saying "S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru". A project will then take place in order to subtitle the main points in English eg names of species, breeds, farm location. Clips from each video could also be taken, and placed in that breed's Category on Commons, Wikidata etc. But first - the licence! Robin Owain Wikimedia UK >> > _______________________________________________Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk >
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Change at You Tube would be best actually, but I'd understood from your message that for whatever reason S4C have not managed to change the publicly visible You Tube licences.
Shall we discuss in more detail off list?
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:39, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
Thanks Michael!
You recommend OTRS rather than change at You Tube? OK, I'll take your lead on this and email you asap.
Many thanks
Robin
On 24 October 2017 at 10:29 Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Yes I can help.
To ensure the videos aren't challenged on Commons we'll need formal confirmation from an authorised person at S4C to be sent to OTRS. If you could privately let me know details of the person who could provide the necessary confirmation I can draft a suitable email for them to send to OTRS. The uploaded files can then be tagged appropriately so that users don't start deleting them based on what they can see on YouTube.
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:10, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
S4C have agreed to change their 'Usual You Tube licence' of videos on their 2017 Royal Welsh Show account (and previous years) to CCBYSA. This means we can upload around 2,000 videos to Commons. It also means that S4C, for the first time, have discussed and understood legality and benefits of open licencing, and could produce footage of other subjects.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrGrdJcnGuiCXMc3tCUvnA/videos
I gave them two options:
RTS (the simple option)
Change licence on You Tube to CC (recommended as it's visible on You Tube).
They say that they have changed the licence (using batch - manual historical), but that it's not visible on any of the videos on You Tube, and the videos don't appear in a Google CC search.
Any help please?
PS In due course we will need to transfer them over to Commons with a pilot patch of 10. Each video will need a 5 second subtitle saying "S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru". A project will then take place in order to subtitle the main points in English eg names of species, breeds, farm location. Clips from each video could also be taken, and placed in that breed's Category on Commons, Wikidata etc.
But first - the licence!
Robin Owain
Wikimedia UK
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Is the plan to transfer them from YouTube via Video2Commons? In the past, I've found that this tool often fails. It really is a shame that no progress has been made on allowing normal video file types.
John Lubbock
Communications Coordinator
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 203 372 0767
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1, Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
On 24 October 2017 at 10:50, Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Change at You Tube would be best actually, but I'd understood from your message that for whatever reason S4C have not managed to change the publicly visible You Tube licences.
Shall we discuss in more detail off list?
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:39, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
Thanks Michael!
You recommend OTRS rather than change at You Tube? OK, I'll take your lead on this and email you asap.
Many thanks
Robin
On 24 October 2017 at 10:29 Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Yes I can help.
To ensure the videos aren't challenged on Commons we'll need formal confirmation from an authorised person at S4C to be sent to OTRS. If you could privately let me know details of the person who could provide the necessary confirmation I can draft a suitable email for them to send to OTRS. The uploaded files can then be tagged appropriately so that users don't start deleting them based on what they can see on YouTube.
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:10, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
S4C have agreed to change their 'Usual You Tube licence' of videos on their 2017 Royal Welsh Show account (and previous years) to CCBYSA. This means we can upload around 2,000 videos to Commons. It also means that S4C, for the first time, have discussed and understood legality and benefits of open licencing, and could produce footage of other subjects.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrGrdJcnGuiCXMc3tCUvnA/videos
I gave them two options:
RTS (the simple option)
Change licence on You Tube to CC (recommended as it's visible on You
Tube).
They say that they have changed the licence (using batch - manual historical), but that it's not visible on any of the videos on You Tube, and the videos don't appear in a Google CC search.
Any help please?
PS In due course we will need to transfer them over to Commons with a pilot patch of 10. Each video will need a 5 second subtitle saying "S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru". A project will then take place in order to subtitle the main points in English eg names of species, breeds, farm location. Clips from each video could also be taken, and placed in that breed's Category on Commons, Wikidata etc.
But first - the licence!
Robin Owain
Wikimedia UK
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Commons does not allow "normal video file types" because many of them contain proprietary coding.
Part of our mission is to encourage the growth of open resources and that includes open software and open standards. Commons takes that seriously and it's important that we do as well. Even if it seems inconvenient at times.
This is a slight tangent from YouTube, but it is unfair to say "no progress". As per Rex, when the encoding is assessed as open* then there is plenty of interest to ensure Wikimedia Commons accepts the new standards. More generally there was a big discussion on Commons (2 years ago I think) about whether to allow MP4 encoded video, the community came to a consensus to stick to a firm compliance to open standards. If there is something to push on, it would be having easier and better transcoding tools. Something that has been on the wish-list for a long time, but never made a priority for WMF dev.
Examples of new file formats being allowed include hosting 3D models, still under some final discussion on the Commons Village Pump, and the change to allow MP3 audio files.[1][2]
BTW, within YouTube, videos are always made available in webm format, so a really smart import does not even need to do any transcoding. Anyone wanting to invest some technical time in it should explore the YouTube API which is well documented.[3] I would do more on this, but I only have one lifetime.
(*) Open is subject to interpretation. It's complex, so sometimes it is worth making a proposal somewhere like the Commons VP and seeing what happens. Sometimes the issue is complex enough that the best way of proceeding is to get a handful of people together to discuss the details over a pizza in a hackathon, and then come back to the wider community with facts and recommendations.
Links 1. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T3790 2. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115170 3. https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/
Fae
Thanks Fae, especially the link to the recent development of 3d files.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2017/05#Prep...
Nearly there!
Robin
On 25 October 2017 at 10:23 Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote: This is a slight tangent from YouTube, but it is unfair to say "no progress". As per Rex, when the encoding is assessed as open* then there is plenty of interest to ensure Wikimedia Commons accepts the new standards. More generally there was a big discussion on Commons (2 years ago I think) about whether to allow MP4 encoded video, the community came to a consensus to stick to a firm compliance to open standards. If there is something to push on, it would be having easier and better transcoding tools. Something that has been on the wish-list for a long time, but never made a priority for WMF dev. Examples of new file formats being allowed include hosting 3D models, still under some final discussion on the Commons Village Pump, and the change to allow MP3 audio files.[1][2] BTW, within YouTube, videos are always made available in webm format, so a really smart import does not even need to do any transcoding. Anyone wanting to invest some technical time in it should explore the YouTube API which is well documented.[3] I would do more on this, but I only have one lifetime. (*) Open is subject to interpretation. It's complex, so sometimes it is worth making a proposal somewhere like the Commons VP and seeing what happens. Sometimes the issue is complex enough that the best way of proceeding is to get a handful of people together to discuss the details over a pizza in a hackathon, and then come back to the wider community with facts and recommendations. Links 1. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T3790 2. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115170 3. https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/ Fae -- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae On 25 October 2017 at 02:22, Rex X <freezetag@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >Commons does not allow "normal video file types" because many of them contain proprietary coding. Part of our mission is to encourage the growth of open resources and that includes open software and open standards. Commons takes that seriously and it's important that we do as well. Even if it seems inconvenient at times. -- Rexx > > >On 24 October 2017 at 13:51 John Lubbock <john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: Is the plan to transfer them from YouTube via Video2Commons? In the past, I've found that this tool often fails. It really is a shame that no progress has been made on allowing normal video file types. John Lubbock Communications Coordinator Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 203 372 0767 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1, Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 24 October 2017 at 10:50, Michael Maggs <michael@maggs.name> wrote: > > > >Change at You Tube would be best actually, but I'd understood from your message that for whatever reason S4C have not managed to change the publicly visible You Tube licences. Shall we discuss in more detail off list? Michael On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:39, Robin Owain <info@cymruwales.com> wrote: Thanks Michael! You recommend OTRS rather than change at You Tube? OK, I'll take your lead on this and email you asap. Many thanks Robin On 24 October 2017 at 10:29 Michael Maggs <michael@maggs.name> wrote: Yes I can help. To ensure the videos aren't challenged on Commons we'll need formal confirmation from an authorised person at S4C to be sent to OTRS. If you could privately let me know details of the person who could provide the necessary confirmation I can draft a suitable email for them to send to OTRS. The uploaded files can then be tagged appropriately so that users don't start deleting them based on what they can see on YouTube. > > >> >>_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
There were actually a lot of discussions at Wikimania about how to get to a point where commonly used file types are allowed to be used. Perhaps I’ll write a blog post about it which might help inform this discussion.
On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 at 09:50, Rex X freezetag@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Commons does not allow "normal video file types" because many of them contain proprietary coding.
Part of our mission is to encourage the growth of open resources and that includes open software and open standards. Commons takes that seriously and it's important that we do as well. Even if it seems inconvenient at times.
-- Rexx
On 24 October 2017 at 13:51 John Lubbock john.lubbock@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Is the plan to transfer them from YouTube via Video2Commons? In the past, I've found that this tool often fails. It really is a shame that no progress has been made on allowing normal video file types.
John Lubbock
Communications Coordinator
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 203 372 0767
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1, Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor
responsibility
for its contents.*
On 24 October 2017 at 10:50, Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Change at You Tube would be best actually, but I'd understood from your message that for whatever reason S4C have not managed to change the publicly visible You Tube licences.
Shall we discuss in more detail off list?
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:39, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
Thanks Michael!
You recommend OTRS rather than change at You Tube? OK, I'll take your
lead
on this and email you asap.
Many thanks
Robin
On 24 October 2017 at 10:29 Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Yes I can help.
To ensure the videos aren't challenged on Commons we'll need formal confirmation from an authorised person at S4C to be sent to OTRS. If
you
could privately let me know details of the person who could provide the necessary confirmation I can draft a suitable email for them to send to OTRS. The uploaded files can then be tagged appropriately so that
users
don't start deleting them based on what they can see on YouTube.
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:10, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
S4C have agreed to change their 'Usual You Tube licence' of videos on their 2017 Royal Welsh Show account (and previous years) to CCBYSA.
This
means we can upload around 2,000 videos to Commons. It also means that
S4C,
for the first time, have discussed and understood legality and
benefits of
open licencing, and could produce footage of other subjects.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrGrdJcnGuiCXMc3tCUvnA/videos
I gave them two options:
RTS (the simple option)
Change licence on You Tube to CC (recommended as it's visible on You
Tube).
They say that they have changed the licence (using batch - manual historical), but that it's not visible on any of the videos on You
Tube,
and the videos don't appear in a Google CC search.
Any help please?
PS In due course we will need to transfer them over to Commons with a pilot patch of 10. Each video will need a 5 second subtitle saying
"S4C -
Sianel Pedwar Cymru". A project will then take place in order to
subtitle
the main points in English eg names of species, breeds, farm location. Clips from each video could also be taken, and placed in that breed's Category on Commons, Wikidata etc.
But first - the licence!
Robin Owain
Wikimedia UK
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Commons is a very risk-averse community. They require independent confirmation of open copyright licensing for everything that has previously been published by a reputable content publisher, and generally assumes incompetence and defaults to deletion if their queries go unanswered.
-Deryck
On 24 October 2017 at 10:39, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
Thanks Michael!
You recommend OTRS rather than change at You Tube? OK, I'll take your lead on this and email you asap.
Many thanks
Robin
On 24 October 2017 at 10:29 Michael Maggs michael@maggs.name wrote:
Yes I can help.
To ensure the videos aren't challenged on Commons we'll need formal confirmation from an authorised person at S4C to be sent to OTRS. If you could privately let me know details of the person who could provide the necessary confirmation I can draft a suitable email for them to send to OTRS. The uploaded files can then be tagged appropriately so that users don't start deleting them based on what they can see on YouTube.
Michael
On 24 Oct 2017, at 10:10, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
S4C have agreed to change their 'Usual You Tube licence' of videos on their 2017 Royal Welsh Show account (and previous years) to CCBYSA. This means we can upload around 2,000 videos to Commons. It also means that S4C, for the first time, have discussed and understood legality and benefits of open licencing, and could produce footage of other subjects.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrGrdJcnGuiCXMc3tCUvnA/videos
I gave them two options:
RTS (the simple option)
Change licence on You Tube to CC (recommended as it's visible on You
Tube).
They say that they have changed the licence (using batch - manual historical), but that it's not visible on any of the videos on You Tube, and the videos don't appear in a Google CC search.
Any help please?
PS In due course we will need to transfer them over to Commons with a pilot patch of 10. Each video will need a 5 second subtitle saying "S4C - Sianel Pedwar Cymru". A project will then take place in order to subtitle the main points in English eg names of species, breeds, farm location. Clips from each video could also be taken, and placed in that breed's Category on Commons, Wikidata etc.
But first - the licence!
Robin Owain
Wikimedia UK
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org