Now it's Monday, has James heard back from this Diane (who I took to be a charity lawyer but he didn't say)?
Jon
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I have received an email from my solicitor who will charge 5 pounds
per document. His firm is based in North West London.
This is not the central London based firm who can advise us on the objects etc.
--
Gordo (aka LoopZilla)
gordon.joly(a)pobox.com
http://pobox.com/~gordo/http://www.loopzilla.org/
On 12/14/05, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote:
>
>
> The current set of objects (a) to (e) has the following (final) object:
>
> e) to campaign if necessary against impediments and restrictions to the
> above goals, wheresoever enacted, in the United Kingdom or overseas.
>
> But the Charities Commission guidelines at
>
> http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc9.asp
>
>
> state:
>
> 3. However, where the campaign or other activity is of a political
> nature (ie seeking to advocate or oppose a change in the law or
> public policy), charity trustees must ensure that these activities do
> not become the dominant means by which they carry out the purposes of
> the charity. These activities must remain incidental or ancillary to
> the charity's purposes.
>
> Does the fact that one of our five objects (and a reference to the
> other four) give us explicit campaigning purpose and as hence as at
> odds with the above clause? See also the rest of "CC9"
>
> CC9 - Campaigning and Political Activities by Charities
> (Version - September 2004)
I haven't read the above document(s), but the reason for this
suggestion was that *if* we ever felt the need to campaign for a
change in the law (in the UK or abroad), having this explicitly stated
in the objects would allow us to do it. Campaigning will not be our
predominant activity, so I still think we fit within the Charity
Commision's guidelines.
Cormac
"Britain's first reform of charity law for 400 years was finally
included in the Queen's speech in December 2004. Annie Kelly explains
how it will benefit and modernise the charity sector"
Tuesday March 1, 2005
Full article at
http://society.guardian.co.uk/charityreform/story/0,11494,1425601,00.htmlhttp://tinyurl.co.uk/ip8i
Here is short extract:
****
The bill has introduced a new list of 12 charitable purposes designed
to better reflect public perception of charitable causes including
advancement of amateur sports and advancement of human rights.
This means that campaigning groups with a political slant to their
work, such as Amnesty International, could now apply for charitable
status.
****
It has been noted that we should apply now, and with these changes in mind.
--
Gordo (aka LoopZilla)
gordon.joly(a)pobox.com
http://pobox.com/~gordo/http://www.loopzilla.org/
On 14/12/05, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote:
> >My personal POV is that I do *not* consider myself "above the law" and am
> >perfectly willing to stand by what I write (whether initial page content
> >or a subsequent addition or deletion) but I cannot and will not accept any
> >responsibility or liability for what happens to the content I create
> >subsquent to my posting it to the site, hence the licencing used.
> One issue comes to mind. Some of use alaises. David Gerard is a
> notable exception, but I wonder if now is the time to encourage, but
> not demand, real names?
Demand real names... all you get is a lot of J. Smith and A. N.
Mouse's. Allowing pseudonyms simply makes it clear who is and isn't
giving a real name.
(besides, a unique pseudonym with a clear identity behind it is often
more useful than a single commonly-confusable name...)
--
- Andrew Gray
andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk
Yes, that is why Amnesty International is not (or, maybe, was not) a
registered charity. I would suggest removing that object if it will
lead to problems with the Charities Commission. In fact it may be
running our MoA and AoA past the Commission before we incorporate as a
limited company to smooth our charity application and have a second
check (as well as the legal one) that all is ok.
Do we still have to get final board approval of the articles before
incorporation?
Cheers,
Andrew(w)
On 12/14/05, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote:
>
>
> The current set of objects (a) to (e) has the following (final) object:
>
> e) to campaign if necessary against impediments and restrictions to the
> above goals, wheresoever enacted, in the United Kingdom or overseas.
>
> But the Charities Commission guidelines at
>
> http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc9.asp
>
>
> state:
>
> 3. However, where the campaign or other activity is of a political
> nature (ie seeking to advocate or oppose a change in the law or
> public policy), charity trustees must ensure that these activities do
> not become the dominant means by which they carry out the purposes of
> the charity. These activities must remain incidental or ancillary to
> the charity's purposes.
>
> Does the fact that one of our five objects (and a reference to the
> other four) give us explicit campaigning purpose and as hence as at
> odds with the above clause? See also the rest of "CC9"
>
> CC9 - Campaigning and Political Activities by Charities
> (Version - September 2004)
>
> Also, from my scant knowledge of legal wording, words such as "as
> above" should be replaced with "(a), (b), (c), and (d)".
>
> --
> Gordo (aka LoopZilla)
> gordon.joly(a)pobox.com
> http://pobox.com/~gordo/
> http://www.loopzilla.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediauk-l mailing list
> Wikimediauk-l(a)Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
The current set of objects (a) to (e) has the following (final) object:
e) to campaign if necessary against impediments and restrictions to the
above goals, wheresoever enacted, in the United Kingdom or overseas.
But the Charities Commission guidelines at
http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc9.asp
state:
3. However, where the campaign or other activity is of a political
nature (ie seeking to advocate or oppose a change in the law or
public policy), charity trustees must ensure that these activities do
not become the dominant means by which they carry out the purposes of
the charity. These activities must remain incidental or ancillary to
the charity's purposes.
Does the fact that one of our five objects (and a reference to the
other four) give us explicit campaigning purpose and as hence as at
odds with the above clause? See also the rest of "CC9"
CC9 - Campaigning and Political Activities by Charities
(Version - September 2004)
Also, from my scant knowledge of legal wording, words such as "as
above" should be replaced with "(a), (b), (c), and (d)".
--
Gordo (aka LoopZilla)
gordon.joly(a)pobox.com
http://pobox.com/~gordo/http://www.loopzilla.org/
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Gordon Joly wrote:
> At 23:48 +0000 11/12/05, Jon wrote:
>
> > "James D. Forrester" <james(a)jdforrester.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Jon wrote:
> > >
> > > > Congratulations (or not, depending on what your thoughts on working
> > > > for the Crown Prosecution Service are:) ).
> > >
> > > *grins*
> > >
> > > > The MoA, as amended, seems ok. I've posted a couple of minor
> > > > amendments to the AoA (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?
> > > > title=Wikimedia_UK%2FArticles_of_Association&diff=249634&oldid=
> > > > 249629), but otherwise all ok.
> > >
> > > OK, made those changes.
> > >
> > > > Are you all right for running this past a charity lawyer before
> > > > incorporation, James?
> > >
> > > Yes, Jimbo gave me the address of one.
> >
> > Which one is it? ie Can we have the name and address (or website link)?
> >
> > > > Does Delphine need to release some funds for this?
> > >
> > > I do not believe that that is necessary.
> > >
> > > > Also, have you found a solicitor for us to sign in front of?
> > >
> > > No, not yet. Anyone else have any ideas, or should I just find a
> > > local solicitors', and walk in and ask?
> >
> > Phoning might be better!! Might as well. It'd be easier
> > to get a quorum (probably four of us) in London. Do we not have a
> > solicitor friend on WP who would do this for free? If not, I can't
> > imagine it's too much just to have our signatures witnessed.
> >
> > > > We need a time and place :)
> > >
> > > I think the 7th of January could work - a Saturday that's not
> > > Christmas Eve, not New Year's Eve, and in more than five days' time.
> > > As for a place, I have no problem with it being done near (or, indeed,
> > > in ;-)) my house.
> >
> > Assuming there is a solicitor available on a Saturday.
> > Where is your house, James? We'll also need a "registered address"?
> > Are we ok with that being your place?
> >
> > > > Seems we're nearly there as far as incorporation is concerned. Then
> > > > we can aim to apply to the Charity Commission early next year,
> > >
> > > Agreed. Moving on a pace. Brilliant.
>
> Suggest we move the discussion back onto the mail list??
Certainly.
> I will email my solicitor today.
OK. I have sent off the current drafts of the MoA and AoA to Diane, but
unfortunately she says she won't be able to reply until probably Monday
because she is travelling. Depending on whether there are significant
problems with our drafts as they stand, this may complicate timings
somewhat.
Yours sincerely,
- --
James D. Forrester
Wikimedia : [[W:en:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
E-Mail : james(a)jdforrester.org
IM (MSN) : jamesdforrester(a)hotmail.com
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