Volunteers also need to be involved in an interacted session on what is/was/could be/will be illegal/problematic/controversial. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohandas(a)gmail.com > hi, > > Also another thing to consider that all Wikimedians in India are not > Chapter members. Can anything initiated by the chapter be used to > provide 'services' to non-members? > Also, no matter how much a person or organisation prepares itself, > threats to Wikimedians come in various ways. I've heard of everything > from threats to life to threats on Wikipedia/mailing lists. I think, > we need resources that can be used pan-India and the first line of > defense is at best each Wikipedian educating themselves on the > practical nuances and also openly sharing such experiences on the list > so that many can benefit from the same. The Foundation/Chapter can > only build minimal defenses on top of this, IMO. What these minimal > defenses are must be discussed by the Chapter and the Foundation > individually and together. > > Pradeep > Handheld > > PS: Back from a wiki vaccation > > On 06/02/2012, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <parakara.ghoda(a)gmail.com> > I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police > > station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the > camera, > > and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card. > > Do we need to send across a letter or something across to the Police? > > > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 2:40 AM, <wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com> > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I thought Id bring up something thats been at the back of my mind for > the > >> last few days. With offline activities increasing in the last couple of > >> months, it is a good sign for the project overall in India. However, we > >> sometimes tend to unintentionally ruffle a few feathers (or people > wanting > >> to take advantage of the situation pretend that we have). This got me > >> thinking of what sort of backup we Wikipedians can expect if they get > into > >> trouble whiles taking part in volunteer activities? I dont mean getting > >> caught doing something illegal, I mean any trouble whiles taking part in > >> or > >> organising routine activities. I dont mean to scare people, this is > >> something that is the result of recent happenings. In Mumbai, > Wikipedians > >> have had to visit the Police Station twice in the last 3 months. > >> > >> First time we had a battery of people including Chapter Secretary Naveen > >> Francis, WMF Deputy Director Erik Moeller (who literally got off a > flight > >> and walked into the cop station), our Legal brain Gautam John, WMF > Trustee > >> Bishakha Dutta and WMF Advisor Achal Prabhala among others go down to > the > >> police station as a political party threatened to stage a protest at our > >> event in November 2011. > >> > >> Last month, we had another visit to the police station during the > >> photowalk because a corporate house was paranoid when we took > photographs > >> of their headquarters. Hisham, Gautam and Achal were all unavailable, > >> thankfully Bishakha was and she was able to get a legal opinion from > some > >> lawyer friends that what we were doing was totally legal as it was not a > >> prohibited area. We cannot expect to fall back on such people all the > >> time, > >> after all they are here as volunteers as well (well, except for Erik and > >> Hisham). > >> > >> Reiterating, that though we were on the right side of the law, we were > >> dragged to the police. I am worried what the case would be if a formal > >> complaint or a case is filed against a Wikipedian (though Im hoping this > >> will never happen) to trouble or scare him, what assurance does he have > >> from the organisation? As most Wikipedians are doing volunteer-work in > >> their spare time, I think its highly important that there is some sort > of > >> assurance that they will not be left to fend for themselves if something > >> unforeseen leaves them personally in a spot of bother. Could someone > from > >> India Programs or WM-IN please advice the community of what sort of > >> back-up > >> and legal support/insurance the community can expect in the event of > such > >> eventualities? > >> > >> Kind Regards, > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Srikanth Ramakrishnan. > > Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore > > Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll > Plaza. > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG > > > > > -- > Pradeep Mohandas > How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Bishakha Datta <bishakhadatta(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: Almost never. In a very different context, while mapping for OSM, I was almost arrested for carrying a GPS in Gurgaon. Taking a firm stance helped (and I was not arrested) but I was extensively questioned on why I was doing it and who paid me for it etc etc. It was almost impossible to explain anything (and no explanation was really heard). I mock compromised by handing over the waypoints I had noted on a paper while retaining them in the GPS memory. +1. This sounds the most sensible. A 'cloud' of resources would help a lot. Regards, Shalabh

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 23:25, Bishakha Datta <bishakhadatta(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: This is very good advice- and this is precisely what we did at Bombay House. I engaged the cops while Pranav was on the phone. When Pranav relayed Bishakha's perspective, that gave us even more confidence to stand our ground. A very important thing here is to be firm, but *polite*. Being confrontational can make things go downhill very fast (I believe they can arrest you for not cooperating with a police officer). Be as cooperative as you can (when the police asks you for identification, questions your background and such), without backing down from your original position. Steer the conversation towards the issue (and legalities thereof) at hand, away from your background and motivations. Most important point- Remain calm and respect the other side- they don't want to have to deal with this if they can avoid it either. It is surprising how much progress you can make under such circumstances with a smile on your face. :-) Finally, concede if you have indeed erred. While photography is rarely prohibited (except in sensitive government designated areas that are clearly marked as "Prohibited Area"), the typical offense people are charged with is trespassing or harassment (thrusting a camera in someone's face, or not allowing them to walk away). You will find very few legal restrictions when it comes to photographing things while in a public place (except when the subject is in an area where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy- like a public restroom, or using a telephoto lens from a public space to photograph someone through their window in their private bedroom). Also remember that (while on public spaces) nobody can ask you to delete your photographs, or take your camera away. Doing so would allow you to charge them of coercion and/or theft. A policeman may seize your camera (if they arrest you, which is unlikely in the first place), but may not delete your photographs (tampering with evidence). If you see yourself getting into a confrontation with a private security guard- as a preemptive measure, call the police first yourself. Ignore any or all of the above advice if you are being physically harmed. Focus on personal safety first.

It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered. It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard of. I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone. Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ??? For instant reference? --Re, On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Vickram Crishna <vvcrishna(a)radiophony.com>wrote;wrote: -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Deepon Saha &lt;hideeponhere(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Also, in general, it is not a good idea to go around taking pictures or gathering information in potentially sensitive places alone. This applies to anywhere in the world, not just India. -- Vickram Fool On The Hill <http://communicall.wordpress.com>

Vickram, The way things are going, anything and everything is sensitive. Even taking pictures at the Government Rose Garden [where photography is allowed], is frowned upon by the Police. Or plaques commemorating public structures. --~~~~ On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Vickram Crishna &lt;vvcrishna(a)radiophony.com&gt;wrote;wrote: -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG

Hi, On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ashwin Baindur &lt;ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: There are lot of places including museums and temples globally which prohibit photography or require special permissions. The issue is prohibiting when there is no clear prior notice. ravi

Tinu of course, Plus a whole lot of indic wiki guys pushing Wikimedia in the vernacular press. :) Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Vickram Crishna &lt;vvcrishna(a)radiophony.com&gt; wrote:

Tangential: I don't think there is any reliable online source which documents advice on dealing with law enforcement officials in India. What are the protections that a citizen have against unreasonable searches and seizures by public officials? The Fourth Amendment to the US Bill of Rights guarantees American citizens protection against misuse of executive powers, and public servants like police officers have to follow proper procedures. On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: