Hi,
I thought Id bring up something thats been at the back of my mind for the last few days. With offline activities increasing in the last couple of months, it is a good sign for the project overall in India. However, we sometimes tend to unintentionally ruffle a few feathers (or people wanting to take advantage of the situation pretend that we have). This got me thinking of what sort of backup we Wikipedians can expect if they get into trouble whiles taking part in volunteer activities? I dont mean getting caught doing something illegal, I mean any trouble whiles taking part in or organising routine activities. I dont mean to scare people, this is something that is the result of recent happenings. In Mumbai, Wikipedians have had to visit the Police Station twice in the last 3 months.
First time we had a battery of people including Chapter Secretary Naveen Francis, WMF Deputy Director Erik Moeller (who literally got off a flight and walked into the cop station), our Legal brain Gautam John, WMF Trustee Bishakha Dutta and WMF Advisor Achal Prabhala among others go down to the police station as a political party threatened to stage a protest at our event in November 2011.
Last month, we had another visit to the police station during the photowalk because a corporate house was paranoid when we took photographs of their headquarters. Hisham, Gautam and Achal were all unavailable, thankfully Bishakha was and she was able to get a legal opinion from some lawyer friends that what we were doing was totally legal as it was not a prohibited area. We cannot expect to fall back on such people all the time, after all they are here as volunteers as well (well, except for Erik and Hisham).
Reiterating, that though we were on the right side of the law, we were dragged to the police. I am worried what the case would be if a formal complaint or a case is filed against a Wikipedian (though Im hoping this will never happen) to trouble or scare him, what assurance does he have from the organisation? As most Wikipedians are doing volunteer-work in their spare time, I think its highly important that there is some sort of assurance that they will not be left to fend for themselves if something unforeseen leaves them personally in a spot of bother. Could someone from India Programs or WM-IN please advice the community of what sort of back-up and legal support/insurance the community can expect in the event of such eventualities?
Kind Regards,
I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the camera, and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card. Do we need to send across a letter or something across to the Police?
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 2:40 AM, wheredevelsdare@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I thought Id bring up something thats been at the back of my mind for the last few days. With offline activities increasing in the last couple of months, it is a good sign for the project overall in India. However, we sometimes tend to unintentionally ruffle a few feathers (or people wanting to take advantage of the situation pretend that we have). This got me thinking of what sort of backup we Wikipedians can expect if they get into trouble whiles taking part in volunteer activities? I dont mean getting caught doing something illegal, I mean any trouble whiles taking part in or organising routine activities. I dont mean to scare people, this is something that is the result of recent happenings. In Mumbai, Wikipedians have had to visit the Police Station twice in the last 3 months.
First time we had a battery of people including Chapter Secretary Naveen Francis, WMF Deputy Director Erik Moeller (who literally got off a flight and walked into the cop station), our Legal brain Gautam John, WMF Trustee Bishakha Dutta and WMF Advisor Achal Prabhala among others go down to the police station as a political party threatened to stage a protest at our event in November 2011.
Last month, we had another visit to the police station during the photowalk because a corporate house was paranoid when we took photographs of their headquarters. Hisham, Gautam and Achal were all unavailable, thankfully Bishakha was and she was able to get a legal opinion from some lawyer friends that what we were doing was totally legal as it was not a prohibited area. We cannot expect to fall back on such people all the time, after all they are here as volunteers as well (well, except for Erik and Hisham).
Reiterating, that though we were on the right side of the law, we were dragged to the police. I am worried what the case would be if a formal complaint or a case is filed against a Wikipedian (though Im hoping this will never happen) to trouble or scare him, what assurance does he have from the organisation? As most Wikipedians are doing volunteer-work in their spare time, I think its highly important that there is some sort of assurance that they will not be left to fend for themselves if something unforeseen leaves them personally in a spot of bother. Could someone from India Programs or WM-IN please advice the community of what sort of back-up and legal support/insurance the community can expect in the event of such eventualities?
Kind Regards,
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
hi,
Also another thing to consider that all Wikimedians in India are not Chapter members. Can anything initiated by the chapter be used to provide 'services' to non-members? Also, no matter how much a person or organisation prepares itself, threats to Wikimedians come in various ways. I've heard of everything from threats to life to threats on Wikipedia/mailing lists. I think, we need resources that can be used pan-India and the first line of defense is at best each Wikipedian educating themselves on the practical nuances and also openly sharing such experiences on the list so that many can benefit from the same. The Foundation/Chapter can only build minimal defenses on top of this, IMO. What these minimal defenses are must be discussed by the Chapter and the Foundation individually and together.
Pradeep Handheld
PS: Back from a wiki vaccation
On 06/02/2012, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.ghoda@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the camera, and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card. Do we need to send across a letter or something across to the Police?
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 2:40 AM, wheredevelsdare@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I thought Id bring up something thats been at the back of my mind for the last few days. With offline activities increasing in the last couple of months, it is a good sign for the project overall in India. However, we sometimes tend to unintentionally ruffle a few feathers (or people wanting to take advantage of the situation pretend that we have). This got me thinking of what sort of backup we Wikipedians can expect if they get into trouble whiles taking part in volunteer activities? I dont mean getting caught doing something illegal, I mean any trouble whiles taking part in or organising routine activities. I dont mean to scare people, this is something that is the result of recent happenings. In Mumbai, Wikipedians have had to visit the Police Station twice in the last 3 months.
First time we had a battery of people including Chapter Secretary Naveen Francis, WMF Deputy Director Erik Moeller (who literally got off a flight and walked into the cop station), our Legal brain Gautam John, WMF Trustee Bishakha Dutta and WMF Advisor Achal Prabhala among others go down to the police station as a political party threatened to stage a protest at our event in November 2011.
Last month, we had another visit to the police station during the photowalk because a corporate house was paranoid when we took photographs of their headquarters. Hisham, Gautam and Achal were all unavailable, thankfully Bishakha was and she was able to get a legal opinion from some lawyer friends that what we were doing was totally legal as it was not a prohibited area. We cannot expect to fall back on such people all the time, after all they are here as volunteers as well (well, except for Erik and Hisham).
Reiterating, that though we were on the right side of the law, we were dragged to the police. I am worried what the case would be if a formal complaint or a case is filed against a Wikipedian (though Im hoping this will never happen) to trouble or scare him, what assurance does he have from the organisation? As most Wikipedians are doing volunteer-work in their spare time, I think its highly important that there is some sort of assurance that they will not be left to fend for themselves if something unforeseen leaves them personally in a spot of bother. Could someone from India Programs or WM-IN please advice the community of what sort of back-up and legal support/insurance the community can expect in the event of such eventualities?
Kind Regards,
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
Volunteers also need to be involved in an interacted session on what is/was/could be/will be illegal/problematic/controversial.
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com
wrote:
hi,
Also another thing to consider that all Wikimedians in India are not Chapter members. Can anything initiated by the chapter be used to provide 'services' to non-members? Also, no matter how much a person or organisation prepares itself, threats to Wikimedians come in various ways. I've heard of everything from threats to life to threats on Wikipedia/mailing lists. I think, we need resources that can be used pan-India and the first line of defense is at best each Wikipedian educating themselves on the practical nuances and also openly sharing such experiences on the list so that many can benefit from the same. The Foundation/Chapter can only build minimal defenses on top of this, IMO. What these minimal defenses are must be discussed by the Chapter and the Foundation individually and together.
Pradeep Handheld
PS: Back from a wiki vaccation
On 06/02/2012, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.ghoda@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the
camera,
and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card. Do we need to send across a letter or something across to the Police?
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 2:40 AM, wheredevelsdare@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I thought Id bring up something thats been at the back of my mind for
the
last few days. With offline activities increasing in the last couple of months, it is a good sign for the project overall in India. However, we sometimes tend to unintentionally ruffle a few feathers (or people
wanting
to take advantage of the situation pretend that we have). This got me thinking of what sort of backup we Wikipedians can expect if they get
into
trouble whiles taking part in volunteer activities? I dont mean getting caught doing something illegal, I mean any trouble whiles taking part in or organising routine activities. I dont mean to scare people, this is something that is the result of recent happenings. In Mumbai,
Wikipedians
have had to visit the Police Station twice in the last 3 months.
First time we had a battery of people including Chapter Secretary Naveen Francis, WMF Deputy Director Erik Moeller (who literally got off a
flight
and walked into the cop station), our Legal brain Gautam John, WMF
Trustee
Bishakha Dutta and WMF Advisor Achal Prabhala among others go down to
the
police station as a political party threatened to stage a protest at our event in November 2011.
Last month, we had another visit to the police station during the photowalk because a corporate house was paranoid when we took
photographs
of their headquarters. Hisham, Gautam and Achal were all unavailable, thankfully Bishakha was and she was able to get a legal opinion from
some
lawyer friends that what we were doing was totally legal as it was not a prohibited area. We cannot expect to fall back on such people all the time, after all they are here as volunteers as well (well, except for Erik and Hisham).
Reiterating, that though we were on the right side of the law, we were dragged to the police. I am worried what the case would be if a formal complaint or a case is filed against a Wikipedian (though Im hoping this will never happen) to trouble or scare him, what assurance does he have from the organisation? As most Wikipedians are doing volunteer-work in their spare time, I think its highly important that there is some sort
of
assurance that they will not be left to fend for themselves if something unforeseen leaves them personally in a spot of bother. Could someone
from
India Programs or WM-IN please advice the community of what sort of back-up and legal support/insurance the community can expect in the event of
such
eventualities?
Kind Regards,
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll
Plaza.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
-- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the camera, and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card.
This is really a shame. Did they specify under what law they were doing this?
Since these situations are cropping up on photo walks, here are some ground-level suggestions for individual volunteers or groups embarking on these:
1)Familiarize yourself with 'photo restrictions' in your city/state: These may differ, and none of us know all the restrictions in each state - maybe a news photographer or someone could be asked in advance, since we seem to have good media contacts in India in general? (Tinu or anyone else: do you think there is someone who could help provide this info? We are all ignorant here. Individuals would feel more confident if they knew whether or not what they are doing is illegal.)
2)Stand your ground to the extent possible: Keep asking which law is being applied if any police action - charging with a case, arrest, confiscation - is brought up. I know this is very very hard to do when faced with police personnel, but still. The police are less likely to bully someone who can firmly ask questions - and who does not get intimidated by the law.
3)Create a chain of 'help': Call another wikipedian for help - if there are 2-3 or more wikipedians present, divide up tasks, so that one-two people can engage the cops while another makes phone calls. When Pranav called me, I in turn called lawyer friends who clarified that P&Co were not breaking the law. I then felt more confident to ask them to 'stand their ground'.
4)Cultivate contacts with media, including photographers, who may have this information or lawyers in your city who can help with this information (including legal students).
This is not meant to imply that no larger help is needed - it's not an either/or, and institutional support may be needed in some cases. These are just small suggestions to empower individual on the spot.
Best Bishakha
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the camera, and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card.
This is really a shame. Did they specify under what law they were doing this?
Almost never. In a very different context, while mapping for OSM, I was almost arrested for carrying a GPS in Gurgaon. Taking a firm stance helped (and I was not arrested) but I was extensively questioned on why I was doing it and who paid me for it etc etc. It was almost impossible to explain anything (and no explanation was really heard). I mock compromised by handing over the waypoints I had noted on a paper while retaining them in the GPS memory.
Since these situations are cropping up on photo walks, here are some ground-level suggestions for individual volunteers or groups embarking on these:
1)Familiarize yourself with 'photo restrictions' in your city/state: These may differ, and none of us know all the restrictions in each state - maybe a news photographer or someone could be asked in advance, since we seem to have good media contacts in India in general? (Tinu or anyone else: do you think there is someone who could help provide this info? We are all ignorant here. Individuals would feel more confident if they knew whether or not what they are doing is illegal.)
2)Stand your ground to the extent possible: Keep asking which law is being applied if any police action - charging with a case, arrest, confiscation - is brought up. I know this is very very hard to do when faced with police personnel, but still. The police are less likely to bully someone who can firmly ask questions - and who does not get intimidated by the law.
3)Create a chain of 'help': Call another wikipedian for help - if there are 2-3 or more wikipedians present, divide up tasks, so that one-two people can engage the cops while another makes phone calls. When Pranav called me, I in turn called lawyer friends who clarified that P&Co were not breaking the law. I then felt more confident to ask them to 'stand their ground'.
+1. This sounds the most sensible. A 'cloud' of resources would help a lot.
4)Cultivate contacts with media, including photographers, who may have this information or lawyers in your city who can help with this information (including legal students).
This is not meant to imply that no larger help is needed - it's not an either/or, and institutional support may be needed in some cases. These are just small suggestions to empower individual on the spot.
Best Bishakha
Regards, Shalabh
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Good Points by Bishakha.. We need to be prepared and organised if anything happens again..
Deepon
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the camera, and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card.
This is really a shame. Did they specify under what law they were doing this?
Since these situations are cropping up on photo walks, here are some ground-level suggestions for individual volunteers or groups embarking on these:
1)Familiarize yourself with 'photo restrictions' in your city/state: These may differ, and none of us know all the restrictions in each state - maybe a news photographer or someone could be asked in advance, since we seem to have good media contacts in India in general? (Tinu or anyone else: do you think there is someone who could help provide this info? We are all ignorant here. Individuals would feel more confident if they knew whether or not what they are doing is illegal.)
2)Stand your ground to the extent possible: Keep asking which law is being applied if any police action - charging with a case, arrest, confiscation - is brought up. I know this is very very hard to do when faced with police personnel, but still. The police are less likely to bully someone who can firmly ask questions - and who does not get intimidated by the law.
3)Create a chain of 'help': Call another wikipedian for help - if there are 2-3 or more wikipedians present, divide up tasks, so that one-two people can engage the cops while another makes phone calls. When Pranav called me, I in turn called lawyer friends who clarified that P&Co were not breaking the law. I then felt more confident to ask them to 'stand their ground'.
4)Cultivate contacts with media, including photographers, who may have this information or lawyers in your city who can help with this information (including legal students).
This is not meant to imply that no larger help is needed - it's not an either/or, and institutional support may be needed in some cases. These are just small suggestions to empower individual on the spot.
Best Bishakha
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 23:25, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with you completely. While I've never been dragged to a Police station, the Coimbatore Police made me delete ALL my photos on the camera, and the Bangalore Police took away my memory card.
This is really a shame. Did they specify under what law they were doing this?
Since these situations are cropping up on photo walks, here are some ground-level suggestions for individual volunteers or groups embarking on these:
1)Familiarize yourself with 'photo restrictions' in your city/state: These may differ, and none of us know all the restrictions in each state - maybe a news photographer or someone could be asked in advance, since we seem to have good media contacts in India in general? (Tinu or anyone else: do you think there is someone who could help provide this info? We are all ignorant here. Individuals would feel more confident if they knew whether or not what they are doing is illegal.)
2)Stand your ground to the extent possible: Keep asking which law is being applied if any police action - charging with a case, arrest, confiscation - is brought up. I know this is very very hard to do when faced with police personnel, but still. The police are less likely to bully someone who can firmly ask questions - and who does not get intimidated by the law.
3)Create a chain of 'help': Call another wikipedian for help - if there are 2-3 or more wikipedians present, divide up tasks, so that one-two people can engage the cops while another makes phone calls. When Pranav called me, I in turn called lawyer friends who clarified that P&Co were not breaking the law. I then felt more confident to ask them to 'stand their ground'.
This is very good advice- and this is precisely what we did at Bombay House. I engaged the cops while Pranav was on the phone. When Pranav relayed Bishakha's perspective, that gave us even more confidence to stand our ground.
A very important thing here is to be firm, but *polite*. Being confrontational can make things go downhill very fast (I believe they can arrest you for not cooperating with a police officer). Be as cooperative as you can (when the police asks you for identification, questions your background and such), without backing down from your original position. Steer the conversation towards the issue (and legalities thereof) at hand, away from your background and motivations. Most important point- Remain calm and respect the other side- they don't want to have to deal with this if they can avoid it either. It is surprising how much progress you can make under such circumstances with a smile on your face. :-)
Finally, concede if you have indeed erred. While photography is rarely prohibited (except in sensitive government designated areas that are clearly marked as "Prohibited Area"), the typical offense people are charged with is trespassing or harassment (thrusting a camera in someone's face, or not allowing them to walk away). You will find very few legal restrictions when it comes to photographing things while in a public place (except when the subject is in an area where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy- like a public restroom, or using a telephoto lens from a public space to photograph someone through their window in their private bedroom). Also remember that (while on public spaces) nobody can ask you to delete your photographs, or take your camera away. Doing so would allow you to charge them of coercion and/or theft. A policeman may seize your camera (if they arrest you, which is unlikely in the first place), but may not delete your photographs (tampering with evidence). If you see yourself getting into a confrontation with a private security guard- as a preemptive measure, call the police first yourself.
Ignore any or all of the above advice if you are being physically harmed. Focus on personal safety first.
+1
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Aditya Sengupta apsengupta@gmail.comwrote:
Ignore any or all of the above advice if you are being physically harmed. Focus on personal safety first.
It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered. It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard of. I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone. Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ??? For instant reference? --Re,
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
+1
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Aditya Sengupta apsengupta@gmail.comwrote:
Ignore any or all of the above advice if you are being physically harmed. Focus on personal safety first.
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
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Good Idea Srikanth..
Deepon
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered. It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard of. I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone. Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ??? For instant reference? --Re,
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
+1
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Aditya Sengupta apsengupta@gmail.comwrote:
Ignore any or all of the above advice if you are being physically harmed. Focus on personal safety first.
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
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-- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
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On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Deepon Saha hideeponhere@gmail.com wrote:
Good Idea Srikanth..
Deepon
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered. It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard of. I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone. Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ??? For instant reference?
Also, in general, it is not a good idea to go around taking pictures or gathering information in potentially sensitive places alone. This applies to anywhere in the world, not just India.
Hey,
I find it interesting that Indian police take active interest in nation's security this way ;)
Ravi
Vickram, The way things are going, anything and everything is sensitive. Even taking pictures at the Government Rose Garden [where photography is allowed], is frowned upon by the Police. Or plaques commemorating public structures. --~~~~
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Deepon Saha hideeponhere@gmail.comwrote:
Good Idea Srikanth..
Deepon
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered. It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard of. I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone. Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ??? For instant reference?
Also, in general, it is not a good idea to go around taking pictures or gathering information in potentially sensitive places alone. This applies to anywhere in the world, not just India.
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
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The Doll's Museum in New Delhi used to prohibit photography!
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.ghoda@gmail.com wrote:
Vickram, The way things are going, anything and everything is sensitive. Even taking pictures at the Government Rose Garden [where photography is allowed], is frowned upon by the Police. Or plaques commemorating public structures. --~~~~
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Deepon Saha hideeponhere@gmail.com wrote:
Good Idea Srikanth..
Deepon
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.ghoda@gmail.com wrote:
It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered. It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard of. I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone. Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ??? For instant reference?
Also, in general, it is not a good idea to go around taking pictures or gathering information in potentially sensitive places alone. This applies to anywhere in the world, not just India.
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
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Hi,
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.baindur@gmail.comwrote:
The Doll's Museum in New Delhi used to prohibit photography!
There are lot of places including museums and temples globally which prohibit photography or require special permissions. The issue is prohibiting when there is no clear prior notice.
ravi
Top posting: yes, *sensitive* spots, not spots of possible connection with *national security*. The police take an active interest wherever money can be sniffed, not only where the government may or may not have an interest. In the former kind of places, one can very often discern an extra-legal aura of security, such as the disgraceful scene some months back when a motorist traveling south (Mumbaikars will know what I mean) on Peddar Road was harassed for taking a picture or two of Antillia from across the road. Picture taking there is totally and completely a legal act, of course, but harassment by police is not always worth going to court about. In that case, the media took an interest, which can be better than going to court sometimes. The trouble is that Wikipedians cannot always expect to be able to raise a media fuss, or to expect sympathy or empathy expressed in the media. But I must say that the media is taking a lot more of a positive and encouraging view of Wikimedian activities nowadays (a kudos to you-know-who).
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.baindur@gmail.comwrote:
The Doll's Museum in New Delhi used to prohibit photography!
There are lot of places including museums and temples globally which prohibit photography or require special permissions. The issue is prohibiting when there is no clear prior notice.
ravi
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Tinu of course, Plus a whole lot of indic wiki guys pushing Wikimedia in the vernacular press. :)
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.com wrote:
Top posting: yes, *sensitive* spots, not spots of possible connection with *national security*. The police take an active interest wherever money can be sniffed, not only where the government may or may not have an interest. In the former kind of places, one can very often discern an extra-legal aura of security, such as the disgraceful scene some months back when a motorist traveling south (Mumbaikars will know what I mean) on Peddar Road was harassed for taking a picture or two of Antillia from across the road. Picture taking there is totally and completely a legal act, of course, but harassment by police is not always worth going to court about. In that case, the media took an interest, which can be better than going to court sometimes. The trouble is that Wikipedians cannot always expect to be able to raise a media fuss, or to expect sympathy or empathy expressed in the media. But I must say that the media is taking a lot more of a positive and encouraging view of Wikimedian activities nowadays (a kudos to you-know-who).
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.baindur@gmail.com wrote:
The Doll's Museum in New Delhi used to prohibit photography!
There are lot of places including museums and temples globally which prohibit photography or require special permissions. The issue is prohibiting when there is no clear prior notice.
ravi
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-- Vickram Fool On The Hill
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I believe this situation is more Urban-oriented/Metropolitan oriented? I haven't had any problems with semi-urban, rural, semi-rural places.
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.baindur@gmail.comwrote:
Tinu of course, Plus a whole lot of indic wiki guys pushing Wikimedia in the vernacular press. :)
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.com wrote:
Top posting: yes, *sensitive* spots, not spots of possible connection
with
*national security*. The police take an active interest wherever money
can
be sniffed, not only where the government may or may not have an
interest.
In the former kind of places, one can very often discern an extra-legal
aura
of security, such as the disgraceful scene some months back when a
motorist
traveling south (Mumbaikars will know what I mean) on Peddar Road was harassed for taking a picture or two of Antillia from across the road. Picture taking there is totally and completely a legal act, of course,
but
harassment by police is not always worth going to court about. In that
case,
the media took an interest, which can be better than going to court sometimes. The trouble is that Wikipedians cannot always expect to be
able
to raise a media fuss, or to expect sympathy or empathy expressed in the media. But I must say that the media is taking a lot more of a positive
and
encouraging view of Wikimedian activities nowadays (a kudos to you-know-who).
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Ravishankar ravidreams@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ashwin Baindur <
ashwin.baindur@gmail.com>
wrote:
The Doll's Museum in New Delhi used to prohibit photography!
There are lot of places including museums and temples globally which prohibit photography or require special permissions. The issue is prohibiting when there is no clear prior notice.
ravi
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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Tangential: I don't think there is any reliable online source which documents advice on dealing with law enforcement officials in India. What are the protections that a citizen have against unreasonable searches and seizures by public officials? The Fourth Amendment to the US Bill of Rights guarantees American citizens protection against misuse of executive powers, and public servants like police officers have to follow proper procedures.
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < parakara.ghoda@gmail.com> wrote:
It isn't easy to stand ground when you are outnumbered. It also isn't god when the cop reels out a law which you've never heard of. I said, I'd look up the law over the Internet on my phone. Saying so, perhaps, we could all create a page with all local laws on such matters and put it up on either Meta or Wikimedia.in ??? For instant reference? --Re,
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcrishna@radiophony.comwrote:
+1
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Aditya Sengupta apsengupta@gmail.comwrote:
Ignore any or all of the above advice if you are being physically harmed. Focus on personal safety first.
-- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com
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-- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on February 12th. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore Aliens invaded Tamil Nadu, left their Spacship and now it is a Toll Plaza. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IVRCL-Vijayamangalam-Toll-Plaza.JPG
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On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Anirudh Bhati anirudhsbh@gmail.com wrote:
Tangential: I don't think there is any reliable online source which documents advice on dealing with law enforcement officials in India. What are the protections that a citizen have against unreasonable searches and seizures by public officials? The Fourth Amendment to the US Bill of Rights guarantees American citizens protection against misuse of executive powers, and public servants like police officers have to follow proper procedures.
Addendum: And there are many sources and videos of experts speaking on the subject. We ought to have something like that for India. Gautam, are you listening? :-)
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