Am forwarding this to the list with Sankar's permission; please cc him on related mail, since he is not on the list. Also forwarding next related one.
Bishakha
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sankar Viswanathan sankarrukku@gmail.com Date: Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 10:54 PM Subject: Discussion about deletion of a photo To: Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.com
Hello Bishakha,
I am facing a problem. Please go through this discussion. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Mahasaraswa...
Unfortunately this would mean that we can not upload the photograph of any old Indian painting or sculpture to Wiki Commons. Most of the photographs existing now would have to be deleted. This will only mean that the articles in Wikipedia would be poorer in content. Being Paranoid about copyright is not the way to improve Wikipedia. The most affected would be articles about Hinduism, for which even now there are very few takers.
I was wondering whether you could help.
Thank you,
Sankar
Service to Humanity is Service to God
The follow-up mail to the previous one. Again please cc him on replies. Bishakha
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sankar Viswanathan sankarrukku@gmail.com Date: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mahasaraswati.jpg To: Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.com
Thank you, Bishaka.
Posting to the India list would be ideal. But I do not know how to do it.
Sankar
Service to Humanity is Service to God
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Sankar Viswanathan <sankarrukku@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Bishaka,
Thank you for your response to my mail.
The discussion is still going on. But the dice is loaded in favor of deletion.
There are certain points which were raised in the discussion.
Wikipedia is paranoid about Copyright. Of course this is a result of the U.S law and any number of cases. There was a time when any image available on the web was accptable to Wikippedia. I think they had some problems then. Of course there are some people who take delight in Deletion. Kind of a sadism.
<<So to keep such images in Commons, either Indian government or Commons needs to have a policy addressing all pictures for which original authorship is unknown, or at the least about paintings of God which is widely available. Until then, we can either assume good faith and keep this image or start a new mass DR for all the images in the category Hindu deities.>>
Indian government will not do anything. But Wiki Commons can do something. Another thing which is surprising is there is no assumption of Good faith. I am a volunteer. How do I benefit by the uploading of the image? Actually most volunteers like me do end up by spending money, because my internet connection is not free. I do not use an internet connection provided by any organization. This atitude of "there is no assumption of Good faith" will put off many people.
I can not imagine anybody from India suing Wikipedia over an obscure painting in a temple.
Now they are quoting the U.K law on which the Indian law is modelled to say that Wall paintings are not covered. This would effectively stop upload of many of the paintings in temples.
But in India in a public temple, the installed idol itself is held to be the temple’s legal owner, and the beneficiaries—those to whom the endowment is dedicated --—are the general public. Does this change the position? I wonder. I have posted this.
I am having another problem with this image. There is one person called Pebble101 who is bent on deleting this image from the article.He deleteds it time and again for no reason. He could be the author of the last unsigned remark on the deletion page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saraswati&action=history
The problem is there is nothing I can do. When I had such problems earlier I was asked to go for Arbitration.
I thought I had to share my concerns with some one.
Thank you.
Sankar
Service to Humanity is Service to God
Dear sankarrukku Sir,
Hello sir how are you?
Regarding your comments "*we can not upload the photograph of any old Indian painting or sculpture to Wiki Commons*." I am just clarifying you that can do that. You you have to prove that those images are *"old Indian painting or sculpture*" by proper source and painter and *sculpture name.*
Just I want to mention that According to The Indian Copyright Act, 1957http://www.education.nic.in/CprAct.pdf(Chapter V Section 25), Anonymous works, photographs, cinematographic works, sound recordings, government works, and works of corporate authorship or of international organizations enter the public domain 60 years after the date on which they were first published, counted from the beginning of the following calendar year (ie. as of 2011, works published prior to 1 January 1951 are considered public domain). Posthumous works (other than those above) enter the public domain after 60 years from publication date. Any other kind of work enters the public domain 60 years after the author's death. Text of laws, judicial opinions, and other government reports are free from copyright.
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.comwrote:
The follow-up mail to the previous one. Again please cc him on replies. Bishakha
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sankar Viswanathan sankarrukku@gmail.com Date: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mahasaraswati.jpg To: Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.com
Thank you, Bishaka.
Posting to the India list would be ideal. But I do not know how to do it.
Sankar
Service to Humanity is Service to God
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Sankar Viswanathan < sankarrukku@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Bishaka,
Thank you for your response to my mail.
The discussion is still going on. But the dice is loaded in favor of deletion.
There are certain points which were raised in the discussion.
Wikipedia is paranoid about Copyright. Of course this is a result of the U.S law and any number of cases. There was a time when any image available on the web was accptable to Wikippedia. I think they had some problems then. Of course there are some people who take delight in Deletion. Kind of a sadism.
<<So to keep such images in Commons, either Indian government or Commons needs to have a policy addressing all pictures for which original authorship is unknown, or at the least about paintings of God which is widely available. Until then, we can either assume good faith and keep this image or start a new mass DR for all the images in the category Hindu deities.>>
Indian government will not do anything. But Wiki Commons can do something. Another thing which is surprising is there is no assumption of Good faith. I am a volunteer. How do I benefit by the uploading of the image? Actually most volunteers like me do end up by spending money, because my internet connection is not free. I do not use an internet connection provided by any organization. This atitude of "there is no assumption of Good faith" will put off many people.
I can not imagine anybody from India suing Wikipedia over an obscure painting in a temple.
Now they are quoting the U.K law on which the Indian law is modelled to say that Wall paintings are not covered. This would effectively stop upload of many of the paintings in temples.
But in India in a public temple, the installed idol itself is held to be the temple’s legal owner, and the beneficiaries—those to whom the endowment is dedicated --—are the general public. Does this change the position? I wonder. I have posted this.
I am having another problem with this image. There is one person called Pebble101 who is bent on deleting this image from the article.He deleteds it time and again for no reason. He could be the author of the last unsigned remark on the deletion page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saraswati&action=history
The problem is there is nothing I can do. When I had such problems earlier I was asked to go for Arbitration.
I thought I had to share my concerns with some one.
Thank you.
Sankar
Service to Humanity is Service to God
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
I am sharing you some old painting and photographs category at commons. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Indian_paintings_in_the_Los_Angel... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_images_of_Kolkata
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, jayanta nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Dear sankarrukku Sir,
Hello sir how are you?
Regarding your comments "*we can not upload the photograph of any old Indian painting or sculpture to Wiki Commons*." I am just clarifying you that can do that. You you have to prove that those images are *"old Indian painting or sculpture*" by proper source and painter and *sculpture name.*
Just I want to mention that According to The Indian Copyright Act, 1957http://www.education.nic.in/CprAct.pdf(Chapter V Section 25), Anonymous works, photographs, cinematographic works, sound recordings, government works, and works of corporate authorship or of international organizations enter the public domain 60 years after the date on which they were first published, counted from the beginning of the following calendar year (ie. as of 2011, works published prior to 1 January 1951 are considered public domain). Posthumous works (other than those above) enter the public domain after 60 years from publication date. Any other kind of work enters the public domain 60 years after the author's death. Text of laws, judicial opinions, and other government reports are free from copyright.
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.comwrote:
The follow-up mail to the previous one. Again please cc him on replies. Bishakha
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sankar Viswanathan sankarrukku@gmail.com Date: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Mahasaraswati.jpg To: Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.com
Thank you, Bishaka.
Posting to the India list would be ideal. But I do not know how to do it.
Sankar
Service to Humanity is Service to God
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Sankar Viswanathan < sankarrukku@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Bishaka,
Thank you for your response to my mail.
The discussion is still going on. But the dice is loaded in favor of deletion.
There are certain points which were raised in the discussion.
Wikipedia is paranoid about Copyright. Of course this is a result of the U.S law and any number of cases. There was a time when any image available on the web was accptable to Wikippedia. I think they had some problems then. Of course there are some people who take delight in Deletion. Kind of a sadism.
<<So to keep such images in Commons, either Indian government or Commons needs to have a policy addressing all pictures for which original authorship is unknown, or at the least about paintings of God which is widely available. Until then, we can either assume good faith and keep this image or start a new mass DR for all the images in the category Hindu deities.>>
Indian government will not do anything. But Wiki Commons can do something. Another thing which is surprising is there is no assumption of Good faith. I am a volunteer. How do I benefit by the uploading of the image? Actually most volunteers like me do end up by spending money, because my internet connection is not free. I do not use an internet connection provided by any organization. This atitude of "there is no assumption of Good faith" will put off many people.
I can not imagine anybody from India suing Wikipedia over an obscure painting in a temple.
Now they are quoting the U.K law on which the Indian law is modelled to say that Wall paintings are not covered. This would effectively stop upload of many of the paintings in temples.
But in India in a public temple, the installed idol itself is held to be the temple’s legal owner, and the beneficiaries—those to whom the endowment is dedicated --—are the general public. Does this change the position? I wonder. I have posted this.
I am having another problem with this image. There is one person called Pebble101 who is bent on deleting this image from the article.He deleteds it time and again for no reason. He could be the author of the last unsigned remark on the deletion page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saraswati&action=history
The problem is there is nothing I can do. When I had such problems earlier I was asked to go for Arbitration.
I thought I had to share my concerns with some one.
Thank you.
Sankar
Service to Humanity is Service to God
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
-- With Warm Regards, *Jayanta Nath* Calcutta,West Bengal Facebook :http://www.facebook.com/jayantanth Wikipedia :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jayantanth আসুন পাইরেসি মুক্ত ভারত গড়ি,সবাই মুক্ত সফ্টওয়ার ব্যবহার করি [image: O:-)],অন্যকে ব্যবহারে উৎসাহিত করি। ______________________________
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Hello,
2011/3/23 jayanta nath jayantanth@gmail.com
Dear sankarrukku Sir,
Hello sir how are you?
Regarding your comments "we can not upload the photograph of any old Indian painting or sculpture to Wiki Commons." I am just clarifying you that can do that. You you have to prove that those images are "old Indian painting or sculpture" by proper source and painter and sculpture name.
The point is that in most cases, it is not possible to prove anything. In copyright law, like in all legal issues, the proof is usually on the accusation. In Commons, it is reversed, the proof is on the uploader, which s/he cannot do in many cases of Hindu paintings. Thus the system is skewed.
Yann
wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org