Well said, Ashwin ...
A few good things... Some mistakes .. some goof ups...lots of misunderstandings, concerns and anger..We are all tired... But it is time to move on.
Let us discuss how we can be more productive, instead of any personal mudslinging. A few humble suggestions from my side.
1) There is a wide spread agreement for the need for more admins for the India mailing list. It is important that these people should be neutral, and in good standing & possibly not connected with the chapter or EC.
2) Let us appreciate the hard work and the struggle behind setting up the chapter ( by the current EC members and many others) through a very painful registration process.
3) Like Ashwin commented, let us give some time for the chapter to stablise and operate. It is an important action item from the chapter to open the membership asap and conduct a general body meeting as time permits.
4) It is important that there is a clear communication between the chapter / EC and the community. Hence forth, it will be good that the Executive committee announce the agenda of the meetings and make public the meeting minutes & resolutions as early as possible.
5) Re-electing office bearers among the EC members each time is a very bad idea, IMHO. Even if there is any plan of such re-election, kindly announce the elections in public & in advance. How & Why the election takes place is still a dark area for all of us..In future, we would like to know who voted for whom or whether the election was unanimous and the reason why a re-election is needed in the first place. Request not to redirect us to MoA as a reason for re-elections.
6) In line with the process of Wikimedia Foundation itself, the resolutions of EC should be made public with information on who supported, opposed and abstained. A collective decision doesn't mean right to individual members' stand, objection & opinion can be ignored or go undisclosed.
7) I think it is a good idea to have a non-voting member, appointed by the Wikimedia Foundation in the EC as an observer ( future National Program Director ?) . The member must have no voting rights but have access to meetings and exec mailing list. This member should be in good standing with Foundation , other EC members and the community in general.
8) Any international travel representing the India chapter should be announced.
9) It is important to ask hard questions on this mailing list to ensure transparency & accountability , but kindly avoid personal attacks. Time to formulate an email etiquette policy page for the India list ?
10) This mailing list continues to unmoderated except with those mails which are obvious spam.
11) The India chapter should be/will be a great enabler for the growth of the Wikimedia movement in the country. Let us support it whole-heartedly.
All the best wishes.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.baindur@gmail.comwrote:
Hello everyone,
I think the time has come to assume good faith and let the office bearers get their act together. We have had enough emails expressing the community's concerns at lack of transparency, lack of communication, etc, etc. The new office bearers are in an un-envious position. I'm sure that they must now be feeling that all the work of putting up a chapter is a thankless job. It was an important task and let us recognise that tackling any state bureaucracy is not an occupation of pleasure. So let us thank them for doing this task and ask them to henceforth function in a manner which meets the concerns of the community.
It would have of course been great if the community had been brought in before establishing the foundation, but that is all water under the bridge now. It is time for us to let them be and go about doing whatever they planned. This spate of attacks/accusation/discourse I'm sure has halted them in their tracks. Such a limbo is the worst situation possible. In expressing our legitimate concern, we have virtually accused them of every possible wrong without concrete evidence and now they stand here already condemned in public eyes. If they have to serve us - make no mistake - chapter activities are meant to serve the community, not govern them - then we have absolutely demotivated them from doing so.
To the EC committee, I would like to say, you have my unqualified support for the period of a year and I request you to get your act together and deliver what you have promised. At this point of time, my support is unqualified but henceforth after this grace period, it will be based on your performance and output. I'm giving you the rope, gentlemen of the EC, now either construct a rope bridge and span the gap between you and the community or hang yourselves with that rope (figuratively speaking).
To the community, I further request that the tone on the list be lowered to gentlemanly discourse. I am not saying that we stop expressing our concerns but let us do it in a constructive way. Also, we must not make mountains out of mole-hills and we must be even more tolerant than before. If the EC have to achieve ambitious targets, they have to act. When people act, they make mistakes. Only those who dont act, make no mistakes. In my eyes inaction is the greater sin than acting and making mistakes. The EC will make a few mistakes but they may be discussed in a non-accusatory way and lessons should be learnt from them instead of seeking to crucify the EC members at every instant.
Also, I will request that all feelings/issues that the community feels strongly about be discussed openly on the list rather than offline and that no efforts be made to influence the EC offline or in an undemocratic fashion.
For those who feel, that they would like to be part of the setup in the Wikimedia India chapter - that is a great and good ambition and the way to go about it is by working in constructive manner so that the community's aims are progressed.
This email is not meant to point fingers towards any one person, but definitely I feel the community needs to heed my message and if you don't agree, to discuss it politely.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Thanks for the suggestions, Tinu. Like Anirudh said in his response to Jyotis' email, we'll have more clarity on these issues in the coming days.
- Sundar "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted." - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
From: CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com To: Wikimedia India list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 10:51:51 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Time to assume good faith and carry on ++
Well said, Ashwin ...
A few good things... Some mistakes .. some goof ups...lots of misunderstandings, concerns and anger..We are all tired... But it is time to move on.
Let us discuss how we can be more productive, instead of any personal mudslinging. A few humble suggestions from my side.
- There is a wide spread agreement for the need for more admins for the
India mailing list. It is important that these people should be neutral, and in good standing & possibly not connected with the chapter or EC.
- Let us appreciate the hard work and the struggle behind setting up the
chapter ( by the current EC members and many others) through a very painful registration process.
- Like Ashwin commented, let us give some time for the chapter to stablise and
operate. It is an important action item from the chapter to open the membership asap and conduct a general body meeting as time permits.
- It is important that there is a clear communication between the chapter / EC
and the community. Hence forth, it will be good that the Executive committee announce the agenda of the meetings and make public the meeting minutes & resolutions as early as possible.
- Re-electing office bearers among the EC members each time is a very bad idea,
IMHO. Even if there is any plan of such re-election, kindly announce the elections in public & in advance. How & Why the election takes place is still a dark area for all of us..In future, we would like to know who voted for whom or whether the election was unanimous and the reason why a re-election is needed in the first place. Request not to redirect us to MoA as a reason for re-elections.
- In line with the process of Wikimedia Foundation itself, the resolutions of
EC should be made public with information on who supported, opposed and abstained. A collective decision doesn't mean right to individual members' stand, objection & opinion can be ignored or go undisclosed.
- I think it is a good idea to have a non-voting member, appointed by the
Wikimedia Foundation in the EC as an observer ( future National Program Director ?) . The member must have no voting rights but have access to meetings and exec mailing list. This member should be in good standing with Foundation , other EC members and the community in general.
- Any international travel representing the India chapter should be
announced.
- It is important to ask hard questions on this mailing list to
ensure transparency & accountability , but kindly avoid personal attacks. Time to formulate an email etiquette policy page for the India list ?
- This mailing list continues to unmoderated except with those mails which are
obvious spam.
- The India chapter should be/will be a great enabler for the growth of the
Wikimedia movement in the country. Let us support it whole-heartedly.
All the best wishes.
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.baindur@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone,
I think the time has come to assume good faith and let the office bearers get their act together. We have had enough emails expressing the community's concerns at lack of transparency, lack of communication, etc, etc. The new office bearers are in an un-envious position. I'm sure that they must now be feeling that all the work of putting up a chapter is a thankless job. It was an important task and let us recognise that tackling any state bureaucracy is not an occupation of pleasure. So let us thank them for doing this task and ask them to henceforth function in a manner which meets the concerns of the community.
It would have of course been great if the community had been brought in before establishing the foundation, but that is all water under the bridge now. It is time for us to let them be and go about doing whatever they planned. This spate of attacks/accusation/discourse I'm sure has halted them in their tracks. Such a limbo is the worst situation possible. In expressing our legitimate concern, we have virtually accused them of every possible wrong without concrete evidence and now they stand here already condemned in public eyes. If they have to serve us - make no mistake - chapter activities are meant to serve the community, not govern them - then we have absolutely demotivated them from doing so.
To the EC committee, I would like to say, you have my unqualified support for the period of a year and I request you to get your act together and deliver what you have promised. At this point of time, my support is unqualified but henceforth after this grace period, it will be based on your performance and output. I'm giving you the rope, gentlemen of the EC, now either construct a rope bridge and span the gap between you and the community or hang yourselves with that rope (figuratively speaking).
To the community, I further request that the tone on the list be lowered to gentlemanly discourse. I am not saying that we stop expressing our concerns but let us do it in a constructive way. Also, we must not make mountains out of mole-hills and we must be even more tolerant than before. If the EC have to achieve ambitious targets, they have to act. When people act, they make mistakes. Only those who dont act, make no mistakes. In my eyes inaction is the greater sin than acting and making mistakes. The EC will make a few mistakes but they may be discussed in a non-accusatory way and lessons should be learnt from them instead of seeking to crucify the EC members at every instant.
Also, I will request that all feelings/issues that the community feels strongly about be discussed openly on the list rather than offline and that no efforts be made to influence the EC offline or in an undemocratic fashion.
For those who feel, that they would like to be part of the setup in the Wikimedia India chapter - that is a great and good ambition and the way to go about it is by working in constructive manner so that the community's aims are progressed.
This email is not meant to point fingers towards any one person, but definitely I feel the community needs to heed my message and if you don't agree, to discuss it politely.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org