Hi,
My point was not about the content or context of the court order but the
compliance of it by WMF.
For all these years, we have been told that WMF does not do anything on the
content on wikipedia. And here is a case where even the history is also
removed that too within a day to comply with a German court order which is
obviously out of jurisdiction of any US laws under which WMF is required to
be complaint.
From the points mentioned by Anirudh, it is also clear
that WMF probably
does some(may be considerably more) discrimination depending on
the
context. As such, it seems there is a bias within WMF and also on the
content of WMF projects.
For me, it is very much important that the Indian map issue IS a legal
matter and WMF does not address it properly. This issue is being
highlighted from the Wikiconference in Mumbai and it still continues.
Almost all my time after leaving from Pune till I came back from the
conference was completely eaten up by the maps issue (police, morcha and
what not. Obviously I am touchy about it.)
It is really saddening to know that all the people from the community, and
various WMF connected organisations and user groups etc are absolutey
silent on it. Otherwise, they make so much noise on any minor points
happening here and there. And WMF staff also gets into the discussions.
There is complete silence now on the maps topic and legal issue.
btw,
Have you noticed the change in Google maps of India? After the air strike
and F16 down, Google maps show the correct maps of India now (no Pakistan
or Chinese controlled areas etc)
Legal experts, please comment. Your opinions are very important for all of
us.
Regards
-Sudhanwa
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 2:24 PM Anirudh S. Bhati <anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
The fact that the German court order had to do with a
relatively private
and low-profile individual could explain WMF's willingness to comply with
the decision. If, however, the ruling had to do with a high-profile
individual in politics, or some political issue that raised substantial
questions around free speech, then perhaps WMF's approach could have been
different.
At the same time, we should keep in mind that there are also strong
financial reasons to comply with court rulings of the German courts, as WMF
raises a significant amount of money from the German public. If they had
been facing a Laotian court order, for instance, their approach could have
been very different. I do think this had more to do with the fact that the
court order dealt with a relatively private and low-profile person.
How would WMF react to a situation like this in India? I think it will be
dealt on a case-by-case basis.
Yours,
Anirudh
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 3:15 AM Frederick Noronha <
fredericknoronha(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Sudhanwa,
This is a complex case, with legal (and perhaps technological)
implications, so I'm not surprised by the lack of response.
Law and technology seem to be moving in different directions here.
(1) I am familiar with the journalistic/legal argument that the
repetition of a defamatory statement is, in itself, defamation too.
(2) On the other hand, the Wikipedia believes that all the edit histories
should be retained, for convincing and sound reasons.
But what happens if some defamatory statement gets 'embedded' in those
histories?
This is why I see a kind of conflict between law and the way technology
(Wikis, in this case) seem to be evolving....
In some cases at least, the Wikipedia should challenge the rulings of the
courts. (This one seemed to offer little time to do this.) I'm sure a
number of pro bono lawyers will support such an important cause. FN
On Thu, 2 May 2019 at 00:48, Sudhanwa Jogalekar <sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dear Indian Wikimedians,
I had sent this mail earlier also and was expecting some comments on it.
Somehow not a single person has replied to this mail.
We talk so much on the list on many insignificant things. Many times WMF
people also add their comments/views in it. But for such an important
topic, that too of national interest, there is complete silence !! I am
surprised and saddened.
This was the original mail I sent on April 12th.
-----------------------
Please check out this news from WMF.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/2019/04/11/a-german-court-forced-us-to-remo…
This means WMF accepts court rulings across the world and take action
accordingly. What can happen in the case of India maps? Your views please.
Regards
---------------------------
--Sudhanwa
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