Hello, An interesting conversation is going on here. I would request Indic community members to follow.

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Butch Bustria bustrias@gmail.com Date: Fri, May 26, 2023, 07:51 Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Announcement] Establishment of Wikimedians of the Asia Pacific User Group To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

To our Bangla Wikimedians who initiated this tensive plan,

I humbly suggest that rather than you set an ambition of going further east, you work on capacitating collaborating and helping the Wikimedia communities of Central Asia, Bhutan, Maldives, Pakistan, Afghanistan and even the islands of the Indian Ocean. These are the communities left without a hub. You work on a unique name, join in Iran and I personally help you on this.

But please don't attempt to cross ESEAP.

Kind regards,

*Butch Bustria* Wikimedia East, South East Asia and the Pacific

On Fri, May 26, 2023, 2:10 AM Mrb Rafi mrbrafi1971@gmail.com wrote:

Well, this is strange and interesting at the same time. There is a lot going on inside South Asian communities that have been hidden from the world and have started to surface now.

I have made an effort to analyze and document my observations regarding the "WAP UG" and have outlined them in the following list:

1. The primary concern is undoubtedly the non-compliance of this UG with

the standard Affcom procedures, indicating either a lack of capacity or willingness to adhere to the requisite rules for the initiation of a UG.

2. The home wiki for all three contact persons listed on the meta page

happens to be bnwiki. Notably, two of them are part of the bnwiki admin panel, which comprises a total of 13 editors. bnwiki serves as the home wiki for six out of the eight members affiliated with this UG also.

3. One of the three contact persons has explicitly stated on their user

page that they are an associate member of Wikimedia Bangladesh. Furthermore, the other two individuals have close affiliations with the local chapter in Bangladesh. Their names can be found in the CoT https://w.wiki/5ZZo for the implementation of the local Wikimania in 2022. Those of us involved in the local movement, including myself, are aware that these three individuals constitute a significant portion of the capable workforce within Wikimedia Bangladesh. It is very unlikely that the local chapter's three most active and leading organizers would make such a substantial leap without internal discussions within Wikimedia Bangladesh, and it is puzzling that the chapter appears to be unaware of this. It is worth noting that there are allegations of off-wiki harassment against at least one of these three UAP UG contact persons. Additionally, Wikimedia Bangladesh is facing backlash within the local community.

4. Operating an organization without formal recognition from Affcom does

not present a fundamental obstacle. I, myself, am leading two non-affiliate organized groups and believe that these non-affiliate groups are essential to make the movement more distributed and transparent. But, to a lot of people, getting recognized as affiliate leaders is rewarding enough which may set unrealistic expectations. Personally, I am not a big fan of the affiliate structure based on my observations in the local movement, as they sometimes prioritize political territoriality over productive endeavors. From my experience, it appears that affiliates function as the sole authority within a designated territory determined by Affcom, and they are prepared to safeguard their sovereignty over that territory (including the onwiki spaces covered by the language or culture of the territory) at any cost. Regarding Bodhisattwa's expectations, it is improbable that Wikimedia Bangladesh, "being a decentralized organization and with good community connection and support", would extend assistance to other organizations within their territory. Unfortunately, this local affiliate has a troubling history of suppressing emerging leadership in order to maintain control over its perceived "territory."

5. I am concerned that the emergence of this UG is an inevitable outcome

of long-standing tensions that have remained concealed within the region for decades. It's more of what we can see with the naked eye. The South Asian community has complex dynamics that are tricky to figure out. There are currently several conflicting parties here without anyone to mediate. WMF couldn't solve the legal complexities of sending grants here even after working for more than a decade. The conflict was previously managed due to the professional support extended by WMF in recent years. But WMF started destroying that capacity themselves through the so-called "budget and staff cuts" recently. There is literally no expert in the WMF with in-depth knowledge about the socio-political realities of this region, which is essential for mediating between these confronting parties and continuing the resource flow and professional support here. Consequently, conflict appears to be unavoidable.

I have made an attempt to articulate some of the shared perspectives held by many local volunteers that often remain unvoiced on the global stage, where they need to be heard. You may understand that I won't be able to present everything, but I have tried my best while staying within the boundary that preserves my safety. Hope it helps to understand the depth of the situation.

Best, Rafi _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

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