On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Noopur <noopur.raval(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, 'on the spot' was deliberately
chosen following earlier walks,
where it was noticed that not everyone who participated actually uploaded
the content later, or partially uploaded with no captions or details. This
makes extra work for other people later.
Maybe this is an assumption? We thought the same but took our chances with
manuals and people went back home and actually uploaded over 800 pictures.
I wouldn't know. I am not such an enthusiastic photographer, nor was I
directly involved in the Photowalk, just assisting from the sidelines. I
extrapolated from earlier discussions that probably took place here, or on
the Mumbai list (or both), or at our Meetup.
Regarding the geeky tools- making life simple, again, the moment you push
photographers/non Linux users into a Linux lab and talk Python and metadata
problems, one is bound to get slightly intimidated. On the back end of
course, you can build the geekiest tool and talk about it, but on the front
end, it should have been a 'clear solution'. People who struggled with
uploads and metadata will surely not go back home and try it again. That
was my point.
Metadata is just a big word for the text and other attributes attached to
a
photograph (in this context). A photograph without credentials is a bad
idea for a resource, and this was pointed out on the list earlier. If the
data is not added by the user herself, it becomes a chore for someone else
to research and correctly annotate it. The fact that a digital photograph
can have such attributes integrated is a boon, big words notwithstanding.
This attributes feature also works for music and videos btw, in fact it
works for all standard media, and if anyone comes up with a new media form,
a similar standard will be set.
The talk about Python was a side-discussion about getting the tool working
in time for the crowd to arrive: would it have made anyone feel better if
it was called Photoshop or Picture Manager or something? Why would that be?
Not a rhetorical question, merely one of checking assumptions.
The tool is for mass upload, the issue was enabling multiple people to
upload from a single location. The issue there is protective tools built
into wikimedia that control such things, in order to prevent malware people
from uploading rubbish, running denial of service attacks and the like.
Everyone who becomes a wikimedian should understand that, and organisers of
wikievents of this nature must learn in advance how to get around this.
India is one of the world's biggest sources of such malware (malware
superpower), so it is very understandable that people concerned about
Wikimedia's credibility and reputation will view such activities from India
as a threat. We need to evolve a protocol whereby lead wikimedians at any
event notify this intent so that the gates are temporarily opened and the
event can take place to everyone's convenience.
When this is not done, the experience is not so great, but as I suggested,
there are workarounds that will still keep everyone engaged and
enthusiastic at the upload venue (which could be a cybercafe stuffed with
Windows machines; wikimedia tools try to be as agnostic and inclusive as
possible) and the need for such things can only come out of discussion -
f2f as well, if the Walkers have a mix of newbie and experienced
wikimedians, but the potential to be much richer and more informative if
more people can participate, like on this mailing list.
The geeky part, the actual design and development of an offline component
of the tool (that was only my suggestion: it is possible there may be some
more effective way of handling it as well), will be handled by wikimedians
who like doing such things, but without this discussion to highlight the
need, why would they? And what would they design, if there was no
discussion about what it should do?
The alternative is everyone goes home, uploads individually, and loses out
on any chance for discussing and evolving best practices about that aspect,
the addition of captions and metadata.
Both options have their merits and demerits, for it is not even necessary
that every photosession be a PhotoWalk.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Vickram Crishna <
vvcrishna(a)radiophony.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Noopur <noopur.raval(a)gmail.com> wrote:
IMHO, the point of the photo walk is not just to
get pictures but, also
to ask people to log on to Commons and check it out by themselves so that
they continue uploading pictures etc.
This thread seems so complex that a participant must have felt crippled
and left thinking that Wikipedia (and Commons) is all so complicated and
geeky, it's not my cup of tea.
The nuts and bolts will always be geeky (although only some highly
specific mails actually had any geeky content in them). The point of all
the geeky stuff is to make life simple for persons who do not need to know
anything geeky at all.
For the next time, a tiny suggestion: Please resort to simpler techniques
of communication and although that may not result
in mass uploads *on the
spot*, give out manuals or DIY cheat sheets so that people can go back home
and look at them again.
Actually, 'on the spot' was deliberately chosen following earlier walks,
where it was noticed that not everyone who participated actually uploaded
the content later, or partially uploaded with no captions or details. This
makes extra work for other people later.
Maybe you guys can also keep in touch with these people who came, drop in
a word and ask them if they need help. Some of
them may return to your next
meetup and that is how community expands.
Noted. I think the purpose of such community efforts is to create more
awareness about Wikimedia, that it has such interesting and user-focused
details available, and that it is participatory: even when things do not
work as hoped, it is we who solve such issues, not they. That is a huge
message for people everywhere, one that does not need to be stated because
it is being experienced.
Having said which, the 'we' who solve the issues work within a commonly
agreed framework, to avoid chaos and wandering down blind alleys. This list
is not part of that framework, it is the place (within this context) where
non-geeky people share their geeky needs.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Vickram Crishna <
vvcrishna(a)radiophony.com> wrote:
Failure to make the system work efficiently is
also a learning
exercise. Given that we are hoping to make such events happen more
frequently and at many historically important places across the country, we
must work to see that wikimedians are enabled to upload images
meaningfully, ie with proper descriptions, as smoothly as possible. It is
unlikely that everyone will have access to decent facilities for mass
uploading the next time.
Ideally, the availability of offline tools for collating and annotating
images is needed, so that the tagged pictures can be kept ready in a folder
for uploading. Then it won't matter if only a single PC can be used for the
actual uploading, as different wikimedians can collate thier pictures
individually, and transfer the folder files severally to the designated
uploader PC for completion. This is important for such group activities,
which may not have been a need when the original upload tool was designed
and the rules for uploading set (which were probably designed to control
spam and other anti-social uploaders, also an important need). This is
analogous to the problems found while running newbie wikiacademies earlier.
I suggest one or two of the Photowalk people, who worked at
understanding and solving the problem found yesterday, interact with more
geek wikimedians who can identify and describe this need as a bug for the
community to solve, or to solve it directly.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:27 AM, nikita belavate <niki8891(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
> Upload on only one single PC was possible at a time. We tried
> reaching IRC center, but there was no one online at the IRC center for
> support.Due to time constraints, we skipped adding descriptions that could
> be uploaded successfully on their second try. On the first
> through,Commonist tool, the meta-data was not saved with the images and was
> erased with an 'unknown error'. So, there are many pictures yet to be
> uploaded and I will ask the participants to upload them with descriptions.
>
> Regards,
> Nikita.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:14 AM, nikita belavate <niki8891(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
>
>> Hii,
>> Its not any problem with the tool.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Shrinivasan T <
>> tshrinivasan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> did you use gthumb to add title and description?
>>> On Jan 29, 2012 10:07 AM, <wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for this GN/Srinivasan.
>>>>
>>>> Point to note - none of the files uploaded using this script have a
>>>> description.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:57:14 +0530
>>>> From: tshrinivasan(a)gmail.com
>>>> To: wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia Takes Mumbai 2012
>>>>
>>>> happy to know that it is useful.
>>>> the install and readme files explain solving these issues.
>>>> edit the file to change the default category too.
>>>> please share if you need any enhancements.
>>>> thanks.
>>>> On Jan 28, 2012 8:41 PM, "Nagarjuna G"
<nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Shrinivasan T <
>>>> tshrinivasan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> open the Python file and fill the login details and url for commons.
>>>> copy the script to the folder where you have the images.
>>>> run the following command.
>>>> python mediawiki-uploader.py
>>>> mail me if you have any issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We tried this script for some folders. the feedback is as follows:
>>>>
>>>> while running the script, it cribbed about missing module poster.
>>>> I have installed it using pip. then another missing dependency was
>>>> python-pyexiv2. apt-get install python-pyexiv2 took care of this.
>>>> after that the script ran successfully.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> GN
>>>>
>>>>
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