Wikiml-l August 2008

wikiml-l@lists.wikimedia.org

21 participants
21 discussions

ml.wikipedia Upload
by സാദിക്ക് ഖാലിദ ് Sadik Khalid 17 Aug '08

17 Aug '08

പ്രിയ സുഹൃത്തുക്കളേ, മലയാളം വിക്കിപീഡിയയിലെ നിലവിലുള്ള അപ്‌ലോഡിനു പകരം http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/വിക്കിപീഡിയ:അപ്‌ലോഡ്<http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%95%…>ഉപയോഗിക്കുവാന്‍ ഉദ്ദേശിക്കുന്നു. അതോടൊപ്പം {{ EnPic<http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%AB%E0%B4%B2%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%82:EnPic>}} എന്ന ലൈസന്‍സിന്റെ ഉപയോഗം നിര്‍ത്തുന്നതിനെകുറിച്ചും ആലോചിക്കുന്നു. ദയവായി അഭിപ്രായങ്ങളും നിര്‍ദ്ദേശങ്ങളും http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/വിക്കിപീഡിയ:വിക്കി_പഞ്ചായത്ത്_(സാങ്കേതികം)#അപ്… സൂത്രം<http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%95%…>എന്ന താളില്‍ രേഖപ്പെടുത്തുവാന്‍ അപേക്ഷിക്കുന്നു നന്ദി -- സാദിക്ക് ഖാലിദ് Note: If you cannot read the Malayalam text please install and configure Unicode Malayalam font. To download Unicode Malayalam font please visit: http://varamozhi.sourceforge.net/fonts/AnjaliOldLipi.ttf see also: http://ml.wikipedia.org

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ലിങ്ക് കൊടുക്കുന്നതില്‍ പ്രശ്നം
by Ramesh N G 16 Aug '08

16 Aug '08

നമസ്കാരം ഞാന്‍ ഒരു പുതിയ യൂസറാണ്. എന്റെ ഈ ചെറിയ പ്രശ്നം ഇവിടെ അവതരിപ്പിക്കാം പറ്റുമോ എന്നറിയില്ല. തെറ്റാണെങ്കില്‍ ക്ഷമിക്കുക. ചില ലേഖനങ്ങളില്‍ ലിങ്ക് കൊടൂക്കുമ്പോള്‍ ശരിയാകുന്നില്ല. ഉദാഹരണത്തിനു 'നെല്ലൂര്‍'<http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%A8%E0%B5%86%E0%B4%B2%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%B2%…> എന്ന ലേഖനം തുടങ്ങി അതിലേക്ക് 'കൊടകര' എന്ന ലിങ്ക് കൊടുക്കാന്‍ ശ്രമിച്ചപ്പോള്‍ അങ്ങനെ ഒരു ലേഖനം എഴുതപ്പെട്ടതായി ഇല്ല. എന്നാല്‍ കൊടകര<http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8A%E0%B4%9F%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%B0>എന്ന ലേഖനം നിലവിലുണ്ട് താനും. രമേശ്.

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Recent Changes available in IRC
by Jyothis E 16 Aug '08

16 Aug '08

All, Just wanted to update you all that a primitive form of our irc bot is functional with our wiki projects (It can monitor all the four projects). Now, it only reports the Recent changes in ml wikis on to the channel #wikiml-admin in the irc.freenode.net. We can work on and get more functionality out of it. for patrolling purposes, we may opt to join the channel and simply look at the messages going by rather than refreshing the recent changes page. I hope this will be of help to the people who work across multimpe wikis. I would still call it a pre beta stage, and there will be changes in the currnet mode of operations in the future We may make this a place for wiki admins to be available for others to seek help if we deem it usefull in the coming times. Suggestions/comments/complaints are most welcome. Thanks, Jyothis.

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വിക്കിസോര്‍സും വിക്കിബുക്സും - ഒരു ചര്‍ച്ച
by Shiju Alex 15 Aug '08

15 Aug '08

വിക്കിമീഡിയയുടെ [*Wikisourc**e-l*] എന്ന മെയിങ്ങ് ലിസ്റ്റ് കഴിഞ്ഞ കുറച്ച് ദിവസമായി വിക്കിസോര്‍സിലും വിക്കിബുക്സിലും ഉള്‍പ്പെടുത്താവുന്ന പുസ്തകങ്ങളെക്കുറിച്ച് ചൂടുപിടിച്ച നടക്കുന്നു. നമുക്കും അതു താല്പര്യമുള്ള വിഷയമായതിനാല്‍ ആ ലിസ്റ്റില്‍ നടന്ന ചര്‍ച്ചകളില്‍ ചിലത് ഇവിടെ പോസ്റ്റുന്നു. കൂടുതല്‍ വിവരങ്ങകള്‍ക്കു മെയിലിങ്ങ് ലിസ്റ്റിലെ ഈ http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikisource-l/2008-August/thread.html help needed searching for pagescans and front covers <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikisource-l/2008-August/000425.html>എന്ന ത്രെഡ് നോക്കുക. ഷിജു അലക്സ് ---------------------------------------------------- John Vandenberg wrote: > > To be honest, this blogger is spot on. Our editions for these > > stories are terrible, usually being uploaded by one person from > > a crappy online edition, altered to partial conform to another > > crappy online edition of unknown provenance :- rinse and repeat, > > until we have a very crappy edition indeed. Lars Aronsson wrote: > > That kind of criticism has also been voice against Google Book > > Search. But libraries still refuse to burn these inferior books. > > They're kept on shelves, side by side with good ones. Library > > catalogs seldom indicate the difference. > > [...] That is because Google Book Search is no other than a digital library: scanned books in pdf format. Nobody there is intended to create nothing but "digital photocopies". If Wikisource is another digitization project into the galaxy of digitization projects that we can find nowadays on the net, then let's look for scanners and developers who are able of creating some good OCR software, let's look for contributors who are inclined to use them, and we will upload the files to Commons. No need of a Wikisource project to do that. But, in fact, none of the wikimedia projects are copy/pastes from paper sources (or ''digitization projects''): * Wikipedia is an on-line encyclopaedia created by hundreds of contributors, not a copy/paste from a paper edition of some old encyclopaedia (even when it's lawful to copy text from encyclopaedias which are in PD, as some contributors actually do). * Wikiversity, Wikibooks, Wiktionary, Wikispecies and Wikinews are all mainly related to the creation of new text, even when we can copy PD text from other sources. * Wikiquote is a new database of quotes from everywhere created by the contributors (and fr.wikiquotes has suffered the fact of partially copying the structure of another database). * Commons is full of contributors' works... and PD works, sure. Why are there people who think that Wikisource is not related to the act of creating something? that is, why WS is not "like a publisher that prints a new edition", even when we are publishing a new encyclopaedia, new textbooks, a new quote database, new images... ? When the creation of « another sister-project to the wikipedia about current events » was proposed in 2003, the response was: « I think we should go further still and shoot for the ultimate goal of creating "Wikimedia." That's media with an "m." It would use Wiki-style rules to enable public participation in the creation and editing of all kinds of media. » (Sheldon Rampton, from http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-March/001887.html) "Public participation in the creation and editing of" whatever you want has no relation with any kind of digital library. I agree with you when you say that "digitization projects should be digital libraries", but the sister-projects to the Wikipedia were never planned as "digitization projects", and that is also applicable to Wikisource. The main goals of the Wikimedia projects are "public participation" and "creation". I think we should not forget it. And the blogger... is spot on ;) LaosLos --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Vandenberg to discussion show details Aug 12 (4 days ago) Reply On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 3:40 AM, Lars Aronsson <lars(a)aronsson.se> wrote: > John Vandenberg wrote: > >> To be honest, this blogger is spot on. Our editions for these >> stories are terrible, usually being uploaded by one person from >> a crappy online edition, altered to partial conform to another >> crappy online edition of unknown provenance :- rinse and repeat, >> until we have a very crappy edition indeed. > > That kind of criticism has also been voice against Google Book > Search. But libraries still refuse to burn these inferior books. If a book made it to print, and into a library, it has _made it_ in my opinion. It has gone through the fire of the publishing world, and should be retained forever. Wikisource accepts any edition that has gone through this process. What I would like to see is that people can turn to Wikisource for an accurate edition of the original article that appeared in a pulp magazine which is now PD. _Then_ people can write their own editions of these stories with full knowledge of the original. > They're kept on shelves, side by side with good ones. Library > catalogs seldom indicate the difference. In a real library, you can pick up the work in your hand, and see the publishing details. At present, it is extremely rare to find a well attributed and verified edition of these stories, so the casual internet searcher has little chance of knowing which edition came first. On Wikisource, these pulp magazine articles that are copied from the internet are not well described, so readers have no idea which edition it is that they are reading. I could tag them all with {{fidelity}}, but I would prefer to be surprised by someone saying "I have that issue in my attic", or "yea, these stories are an important piece of our culture: lets pool funds and purchase some pagescans". > So, should Wikisource behave like a library or like a publisher > that prints a new edition (with up-to-date foreword) of the book? An interesting question that Wikisource is trying to figure out. Opinions differ, as usual. English Wikisource permits annotations without much restraint, which means we are often acting as a publisher, and some are suggesting we permit "user contributed" forewords as well. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/WS:S#Are_we_obliged_to_reproduce_Wikipedia.3F -- John Vandenberg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lars Aronsson to discussion show details Aug 13 (2 days ago) Reply LaosLos wrote: > Why are there people who think that Wikisource is not related to > the act of creating something? that is, why WS is not "like a > publisher that prints a new edition", even when we are > publishing a new encyclopaedia, new textbooks, a new quote > database, new images... ? Could you please stay focused on Wikisource. What exactly is intended to be "created" in Wikisource? The whole purpose of Wikisource is to present source texts, as they were written. It's not really up to us to modify that content, is it? -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yann Forget to discussion show details Aug 13 (2 days ago) Reply Lars Aronsson wrote: > LaosLos wrote: > >> Why are there people who think that Wikisource is not related to >> the act of creating something? that is, why WS is not "like a >> publisher that prints a new edition", even when we are >> publishing a new encyclopaedia, new textbooks, a new quote >> database, new images... ? > > Could you please stay focused on Wikisource. What exactly is > intended to be "created" in Wikisource? The whole purpose of > Wikisource is to present source texts, as they were written. > It's not really up to us to modify that content, is it? Well, I think this discussion is right on the subject. Wikisource may not "create" something, but I think that it could rightly be argued that Wikisource publishes texts, even if these texts already existed before being published in Wikisource. Regards, Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Birgitte SB wrote: While the focus is on accurately presenting texts; that is not all Wikisource is. In fact the more strongly we focus on accuracy the more complicated things are. As John points out, the static nature of texts is mostly a fallacy. While everyone knows that is would silly to type in "Bible" and arrive a the text of the Bible without making further choices on whether you are looking for a Jewish or Christian text much less which translation you are looking for, many other much more mundane texts have a variety editions. Any attempt to be accurate will also invlove creating indexes and researching the various editions and finding ways sharing that research to inform reader's choices. Then there are things like creating translation and adding value to text by wikilinks. I see Wikisource as creating a library rather than creating the texts. The core of a library is always created by others but it is the creation of useful bits around the texts that differentiates a library from a scrapyard of books. Birgitte SB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lars Aronsson to discussion show details Aug 14 (2 days ago) Reply Birgitte SB wrote: > Then there are things like creating translation and adding value > to text by wikilinks. In my opinion, translations (performed by wiki volunteers) should belong in Wikibooks and not in Wikisource, exactly because they are not (pre-existing, external) sources but creative efforts. Copyright legislation recognizes translators just like authors, so the copyright to a wiki-translation belongs to the translators, who can license their work. (I'm assuming that the original authors are long dead and no longer can make such claims.) Whereas most books on Wikisource are in the public domain, where none of the wiki volunteers can claim copyright and thus cannot add any free license. -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John VandenbergThat is a tough call. I havent seen a lot of discussion about this. Wikibooks... Aug 14 (2 days ago) John Vandenberg to discussion show details Aug 14 (2 days ago) Reply On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Lars Aronsson <lars(a)aronsson.se> wrote: > Birgitte SB wrote: > >> Then there are things like creating translation and adding value >> to text by wikilinks. > > In my opinion, translations (performed by wiki volunteers) should > belong in Wikibooks and not in Wikisource, exactly because they > are not (pre-existing, external) sources but creative efforts. That is a tough call. I havent seen a lot of discussion about this. Wikibooks is about creating new books. Wikisource is focused on old sources. If a source doesnt exist in a language, or one isnt free yet, we see it as within our scope to let contributors create a new translation. It might a five line poem, or a 200 page court document. Or a dissertation. Would all those fit within the scope of Wikibooks? We have lots of additional infrastructure to deal with sources. An example of one of the benefits of putting "new" translations on Wikisource is the interwiki system, with our "DoubleWiki" extension to provide side by side views http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:DoubleWiki_Extension e.g. http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Criton?match=el > Copyright legislation recognizes translators just like authors, so > the copyright to a wiki-translation belongs to the translators, > who can license their work. (I'm assuming that the original > authors are long dead and no longer can make such claims.) Whereas > most books on Wikisource are in the public domain, where none of > the wiki volunteers can claim copyright and thus cannot add any > free license. Of course, however all wiki-translations are GFDL on submission. All wikisource edits are GFDL on submission, however many edits are ineligible for copyright as the submitted text is PD. As you can imagine, Wikisource is constantly dealing with copyright law, much like Commons. The most notable example is some wiki-translations of Russian works by Osip Mandelstam, which we had to eventually delete because we couldnt determine that the Russian text was PD in the U.S. I seriously doubt that such a complex copyright issue would have been plumbed to such depths on Wikibooks: http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Scriptorium&oldid=481… fwiw, Project Gutenberg also allows contributors to donate translations, however they have let them retain copyright at times. -- John --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- നടക്കുന്ന വിഷയമാണു

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ഐ ആര്‍ സിയും ബോട്ടും പിന്നെ ഞാനും
by Jyothis E 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

നമസ്കാരം! ഐ ആര്‍ സിയില്‍ ഒരു പുതിയ ചാനല്‍ കൂടി തുടങ്ങിയിട്ടുണ്ട്. #wikiml-admin. ഒരു പരീക്ഷണമെന്ന നിലയില്‍ സി #ഇല്‍ എഴുതപ്പെട്ടിട്ടുള്ള ഒരു കൌണ്ടര്‍ വാന്‍ഡലിസം ബോട്ടായ SWMTBot വീട്ടിലെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറില്‍ നിന്നും ഓടിക്കാന്‍ ശ്രമിക്കുന്നുണ്ട്. ഒന്നിലേറെ വിക്കികളെ ഒന്നിച്ചു നോക്കാമെന്ന ഒരു ഗുണം ഇതിനുണ്ട്. തല്‍ക്കാ‍ലം ഉപയോഗമൊക്കെ പഠിച്ചു വരുന്നേ ഉള്ളു. മലയാളം വിക്കിയെ നോക്കാനിട്ടിട്ട് ആകെ പിടിച്ചത് ഓറഞ്ച് എന്ന പേജ് ഇന്നു കാലിയാക്കിയതാണ്. കുറച്ച് കോഡ് തിരുത്തി സൂത്രപ്പണികള്‍ കാണിക്കേണ്ടി വന്നു ഇവനെ മലയാളിയാക്കാന്‍. ഇനിയും പണി കുറച്ചു ചെയ്യാനുണ്ടാവുമെന്നാണ് പോക്കു കണ്ടിട്ട് തോന്നുന്നത്. പഠിക്കുന്ന മുറയ്ക്ക് ബാക്കിയുള്ളവരെ അപ്ഡേറ്റാം. സസ്നേഹം.

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post to list
by justinpathalil 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

For postin in list

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[മലയാളം വിക്കി]മെയിലിങ്ങ് ലിസ്റ്റിനെ കുറിച്ച്
by സാദിക്ക് ഖാലിദ ് Sadik Khalid 13 Aug '08

13 Aug '08

സുഹൃത്തുക്കളെ, മെയിലിങ്ങ് ലിസ്റ്റിനെ കുറിച്ച് മലയാളത്തിലുള്ള വിവരണങ്ങള്‍ ( https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiml-l ഈ താളില്‍) ചേര്‍ക്കാന്‍ ഉദ്ദേശിക്കുന്നു. അഭിപ്രായങ്ങളും നിര്‍ദ്ദേശങ്ങളും ദയവായി അറിയിക്കുക നന്ദി, --- സാദിക്ക് ഖാലിദ് Note: If you cannot read the Malayalam text please install and configure Unicode Malayalam font. To download Unicode Malayalam font please visit: http://varamozhi.sourceforge.net/fonts/AnjaliOldLipi-0.720.ttf see also: http://ml.wikipedia.org

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തത്സമയ സംവാദം ചാനല്‍
by Jyothis E 12 Aug '08

12 Aug '08

സുഹൃത്തുക്കളേ, തത്സമയസംവാദത്തിനായി മുന്‍പ് ഉണ്ടാക്കിയ #ml.wikipedia എന്ന ചാനല്‍ റെസ്ട്രിക്റ്റഡ് ആക്സസ് ചാ‍നല്‍ ആക്കിയിട്ടുണ്ട്. പുതിയ ഉപയോക്താക്കള്‍ വഴി തെറ്റി ചെന്നു കേറാതിരിക്കാനാണിത്. ഇത് നമുക്ക് വേണമെങ്കില്‍ പ്രൈവറ്റ് മീറ്റിങ്ങുകള്‍ സംഘടിപ്പിക്കാന്‍ ഉപയോഗിക്കാമെന്നു തോന്നുന്നു. റൂമിലേക്ക് ആക്സസ് ആവശ്യമുള്ളവര്‍ എന്നെയോ സാദിക്കിനേയോ അറിയിച്ചാല്‍ ആക്സസ് ലിസ്റ്റിലേക്ക് ചേര്‍ത്തു തരാം. ** ** ** സസ്നേഹം.

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Test message
by Francis Nazareth 12 Aug '08

12 Aug '08

Just to see if the list is working :-) Regards, Simy

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Congratulations
by Challiyan 12 Aug '08

12 Aug '08

Congratulations on the new mailing list. This is a test Vipin

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