Hi folks,
In the past few days, the following Wales-related properties have been created in Wikidata:
Welsh Chapels ID - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4641
Welsh assembly ID - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4651
Coflein ID - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4658
(the latter is "for an historic site, monument or building in the National Monuments Record of Wales database")
Good to see these dbs uploaded and many thanks to all.
Very, very sad, however, that someone has opted for an union jack / uk template for properties relevant to the Welsh Nation (see the Talk pages); very political - and the best way to turn off any Welsh people away from Wikidata and Wikimedia. We need to work with our diverse community, not against them!
I've created a new 'Template:Wales properties' but the rest also needs to be corrected and any uploads relevant to Scotland should be under Scotland, NOT the 'United' kingdom.
Please keep politics out of Wikimedia projects; many people are insulted by the use of "UK" - Wales has never agreed to any 'Union' / 'UK' which was only enforced upon us by the power of the English sword, not democracy.
The English WP discussed whether Wales is a country for many moons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wales/Archive_country_poll); and the outcome (after many discussions) was that yes, it is a country. I hope WD will respect that decision, by using Category:Wales / Template:Wales rather than Category:UK etc etc.
Robin
On 14 December 2017 at 16:48 Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
Hi folks,
In the past few days, the following Wales-related properties have been created in Wikidata:
Welsh Chapels ID - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4641
Welsh assembly ID - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4651
Coflein ID - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4658
(the latter is "for an historic site, monument or building in the National Monuments Record of Wales database")
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
On 15 December 2017 at 19:39, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
Very, very sad, however, that someone has opted for an union jack / uk template for properties relevant to the Welsh Nation (see the Talk pages); very political
Assume good faith, please. The reason for that was that someone had - not unreasonably, in the circumstances - said that the property was related to the United Kingdom. Given that those circumstances are that they are not a United Kingdom citizen, nor a native English (or Welsh) speaker, I don't think that was "very political". And the matter was easily rectified, as I see you yourself have done:
https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property:P4641&diff=609674520...
On the statement 'Welsh Chapels ID', you would expect a person to add the specific property, namely 'Wales'. That would have been the correct thing to do.
What you're asking, Andy, is for me to have faith that the person who added 'UK' did not know that Wales existed? It is very reasonable to assume that a French person would have heard of the Welsh National Team, the Welsh National Rugby team? The Welsh National Assembly? The National Library of Wales...
If he or she didn't know that Wales is a nation, then why on earth was he /she working with 'Welsh Chapels IDs' etc? Surely, others were aware of this?, and allowed it to pass by.
If an user had placed Robert Plant's place of birth as being 'Europe', the reasonable thing to do would have been to correct it into the more specific 'England', and maybe assumed good faith. If this mistake had been done thousands of time, at what point would you stop assuming good faith? Commons has most Welsh people categorised as being under the general 'UK'; even Wiki Loves Monuments did not accept Wales and Scotland as being individual countries, and as for enwiki... It happens all the time, uncorrected. The old adage still holds true: 'ignorance is not not knowing, but not wanting to know'.
If editors do not know that Wales is a country, a nation, then surely it is our responsibility to educate them. It is our moral duty to support diversity and the other 287 language wikis by educating people of our own diversity and individual countries that form the "UK". And this correction needs to be done by all of us, wherever we live, whatever our language, asap.
PS Andy - my words are not aimed at you, otherwise I would have sent you an email, they are aimed at all of our wiki community.
Robin
On 15 December 2017 at 22:00 Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 15 December 2017 at 19:39, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
Very, very sad, however, that someone has opted for an union jack / uk template for properties relevant to the Welsh Nation (see the Talk pages); very political
Assume good faith, please. The reason for that was that someone had - not unreasonably, in the circumstances - said that the property was related to the United Kingdom. Given that those circumstances are that they are not a United Kingdom citizen, nor a native English (or Welsh) speaker, I don't think that was "very political". And the matter was easily rectified, as I see you yourself have done:
https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property:P4641&diff=609674520...
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
On 17 December 2017 at 17:36, Robin Owain info@cymruwales.com wrote:
What you're asking, Andy, is for me to have faith that the person who added 'UK' did not know that Wales existed?
No. What I'm asking you to do - in the absence of any evidence to the contrary - is to assume that their action was made in good faith, rather than being "very political".
Sigh. To the old-school eye this is a {{sofixit}}. The conventional wisdom, which is that no more need be said, holds good.
Charles
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org