Thanks
Lodewijk
I think thats a very good summary. Deciding what WLM is and what it isnt
may shorten the debates. I'm not suprised that categorisation volunteers
are thin on the ground. If it was fun then we wouldnt have the issue.
Useful to leave till London I think
regards
Roger
PS Finding new voluteers/activists is a good target.( know the Russian WLM
got some articles written as their QRpedia exhibition got me doing
translation for them and a few others.
On 30 January 2012 17:21, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:
Hi Roger,
I think there are indeed a few things that characterize a 'Wiki Loves
Monuments' - amongst those is, that it is a photo competition about
monuments :) Hence, if categorizing would be the main activity, it would
make a lot more sense indeed to find a different name. It would have
nothing to do any more with 'flexible rules', but rather an entirely
different concept. Which doesn't make it a bad idea though.
Wiki Loves Monuments is a great way to get quite good quality pictures of
monumental buildings. Even though you have many uncategorized images, there
are definitely going to be many locations still without a good quality
picture. At the same time, a big benefit is that you make a large group of
people (especially amateur photographers) aware that Wikipedia is editable,
which gives you an opportunity (not a garantuee) that they can be persuaded
to stick around. Additionally it is a nice opportunity to work together
with a different kind of partners, but I understand that you have no
scarcity there.
As far as I know, Maarten is currently trying to run a lot of the
categorization automated, and that seems to be going well although it will
take quite a while before it is finished.
But yes, you will have definitely to ask yourself the question whether you
want to run this competition at all. Most Wikipedians I heard so far on
this topic seem indeed to be mainly worried about categorization, and find
that of the most importance (please correct me when I'm wrong). Just don't
get the impression that this potential audience that is out there (heritage
enthusiasts, photographers) which you might be able to motivate for Wiki
Loves Monuments, will be similarly interested in a 'categorization
contest'. So far, I have met 1 non-Wikipedian interested in categorization.
Ever. And he was only interested because he once did a paper or something
on the topic :)
So to put it simple: there is an opportunity to run a Wiki Loves Monuments
in the UK. I personally think it is a great thing to do, and am happy to
assist in any way possible to help you get it organized. But in the end,
the enthusiasm and effort have to come from UK volunteers. I am not a
categorization magician, so I can unfortunately not make that problem go
away for you - even though I have tried to pull some strings and get other
people take a look at it.
Running a categorization contest/event for the Wikipedians (because other
people are unlikely to be interested) before the start of Wiki Loves
Monuments sounds like a great idea, because the two can potentially
reinforce each other. Imho mixing the two up would make things complicated,
and weaken both ideas.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
No dia 30 de Janeiro de 2012 17:22, Roger Bamkin <victuallers(a)gmail.com>escreveucreveu:
*UK Wikimedians are not entirely indifferent to proper subcategorisation
of photos (outdoor or in) on a vaguely monumental
theme* - lol
Well that was a useful push at the linits of what is possible as I knew
you thought that the rules were flexible. I'm feeling on this thread that
we need to know why we are gathering more pics when we have so many.
One appeal in WLM was to see the blip of new users on commons that WLM
delivered. I only offer the categorisation project because that is where we
have a large backlog. I know the category model is tricky but surely its a
problem we cannot allow newbies to ignore? Otherwise our categorisation
problems gets worse.
We are saying that we should ask people to take pictures of things that
we don't have pictures of ..... but we have no idea which things we don't
have pictures of.
What would you say were the main benefits of WLM. to the UK given that we
do have thousands and thousands of photos that are uncategorised?
On 30 January 2012 14:59, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:
Hi Roger,
I feel sorry for you that you have the feeling that you went out for
nothing. However, you did surely add to the wealth - having multiple photos
of something is also worth something.
A categorization project sounds great, but should probably not be called
'wiki loves monuments' to avoid confusion. It is also much less useful to
new users, the main target group of Wiki Loves Monuments. We shouldn't
bother them with Commons' horrible categorization structure - they should
just identify what is on their photo, and we can (automagically) take it
from there thanks to the (to be built) database.
If you want to motivate people from our communities to categorize
pictures, that would be a nice project in its own right. Perhaps it would
be nice to do *before* wiki loves monuments - so that both get maximum
effect?
Lodewijk
No dia 30 de Janeiro de 2012 15:29, Roger Bamkin <victuallers(a)gmail.com>escreveucreveu:
*Anecdotal story*: My wife decided to take me
outside for a trip and
asked where I wanted to go. I'd recently seen a tool by Magnus Mankse
called *Shoot me* which lists out all the wiki articles geo tagged
near you that lacked pics. So I quickly went
http://toolserver.org/~magnus/wikishootme/index.html
and that listed out half a dozen useful places near me that lacked
pics. We went out .... took the pics and when I went to load them I found
out that all these pictures already existed ..... they were uncategorised,
but there. I think I loaded some *new* pix but I'm not sure I added much to
"the wealth".
So if our objective is to "supply everything to everyone" (paraphrase
our vision), then first we need a copy of everything. It could be that we
already have a copy of nearly everything if we could just sort out what we
had and what we lacked. However the chances of running a successful UK
categorisation project is low..... or is it?
Do you know I just typed the last sentence and realised that that is
what we want. *We want a categorisation project*. What we know will
appeal is a successful photography project. Hmmm
*
UK WIKI LOVES MONUMENTS* - wacky proposal
Prize goes to the b*est five media files in a complete
Wiki-Commons-Category*
Entrants will ensure that they use a valid commons category for a
village, road, type of monuments etc. They will populate that category with
as many photos and videos and sounds as possible. They are invited to add
their own pictures, viideo and sounds but also to collect as many freely
sourced files they can find from other sources too.
Judges will look at wikimedia commons pages, wikipedia, wikisource etc
pages that use or could use these resources. They will choose the winning
category and the five media files that best illustrate its reason for
winning. This is a "beauty" competition that is is not just based on the
quality of the media but also the quantity, meta data and completeness of
the chosen category.
So thats an idea for what might work Please feel free to ignore, delete
or modify
On 30 January 2012 11:46, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote:
>
>
> I may have missed the point.. but.... doesn't this article need
> expanding urgently? I feel these types of articles should be expanded
> routinely (Grade I listed buildings).
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Harmondsworth_Barn<http://en.wikipedia.or…
>
> In the news currently because English Heritage have just bought it.
>
> Perhaps it should look more like this...
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**House_Mill<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H…
>
> And, yes, I will edit the article - REAL SOON NOW.
>
> Gordo
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Gordon Joly
> gordon.joly(a)pobox.com
>
http://www.joly.org.uk/
> Don't Leave Space To The Professionals!
>
>
>
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Chair WMUK <http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board>
01332 702993
0758 2020815
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Skype:Victuallers1
Flickr:Victuallers2
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01332 702993
0758 2020815
Google+:Victuallers
Skype:Victuallers1
Flickr:Victuallers2