Lovely video from Armenia
From: Lilit Tarkhanyan lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Best regards Lilit Tarkhanyan Wikimedia Armenia Board Member Wikipedia Education Program Leader
If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content.
Thanks, Fae
On 13 April 2014 07:17, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Lovely video from Armenia
From: Lilit Tarkhanyan lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Best regards Lilit Tarkhanyan Wikimedia Armenia Board Member Wikipedia Education Program Leader
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Damn! Not enough coffee yet
Here it is
Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSbrivrpzmw of the video made with high-school students.
On 13 April 2014 07:59, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content.
Thanks, Fae
On 13 April 2014 07:17, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Lovely video from Armenia
From: Lilit Tarkhanyan lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Best regards Lilit Tarkhanyan Wikimedia Armenia Board Member Wikipedia Education Program Leader
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks for sharing this, Jon.
Best regards, Bence
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Damn! Not enough coffee yet
Here it is
Here is the link of the video made with high-school students.
On 13 April 2014 07:59, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content.
Thanks, Fae
On 13 April 2014 07:17, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Lovely video from Armenia
From: Lilit Tarkhanyan lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Best regards Lilit Tarkhanyan Wikimedia Armenia Board Member Wikipedia Education Program Leader
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
What a fabulous video Jon! Can haz one for the UK?
Harry
-- Harry Burt (User:Jarry1250)
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Damokos Bence damokos.bence@wikimedia.huwrote:
Thanks for sharing this, Jon.
Best regards, Bence
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Damn! Not enough coffee yet
Here it is
Here is the link of the video made with high-school students.
On 13 April 2014 07:59, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content.
Thanks, Fae
On 13 April 2014 07:17, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Lovely video from Armenia
From: Lilit Tarkhanyan lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Best regards Lilit Tarkhanyan Wikimedia Armenia Board Member Wikipedia Education Program Leader
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Damokos Bence Wikimédia Magyarország http://wikimedia.hu
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Make a proposal! These are great reminders about what the difference we are making.
On 13 April 2014 09:58, Harry Burt harryaburt@gmail.com wrote:
What a fabulous video Jon! Can haz one for the UK?
Harry
-- Harry Burt (User:Jarry1250)
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Damokos Bence <damokos.bence@wikimedia.hu
wrote:
Thanks for sharing this, Jon.
Best regards, Bence
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Damn! Not enough coffee yet
Here it is
Here is the link of the video made with high-school students.
On 13 April 2014 07:59, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content.
Thanks, Fae
On 13 April 2014 07:17, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
Lovely video from Armenia
From: Lilit Tarkhanyan lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Best regards Lilit Tarkhanyan Wikimedia Armenia Board Member Wikipedia Education Program Leader
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505
169
tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London
EC2A
4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation
(who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Damokos Bence Wikimédia Magyarország http://wikimedia.hu
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
I'll reply around lunchtime privately. I won't have time before then. On 13 Apr 2014 08:46, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a
second
there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came
across
as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That
has
to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the
chapter
and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility
might be
necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a
rule
holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's
no
problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can
at
least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Two other possibilities: 1. Drop a private mail to jon 2. Send the link yourself, as enock did when this happened to me a week ago
Fae, you seem to have a tendency to reply "yes" to the question "you ve got a watch", instead of telling the time, hehe.
Imo dealing with imperfection is one of the most important properties of humans and their communication ... The world does not end with weitzenbaum s eliza :)
Rupert Am 13.04.2014 09:45 schrieb "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com:
No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a
second
there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came
across
as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That
has
to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the
chapter
and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility
might be
necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a
rule
holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's
no
problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can
at
least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point, which is that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would you mind including all the relevant information in your emails to the list", for example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not to point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid instead of Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of everyone else subscribed to this list.
Thanks, Harry Mitchell
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Sure Harry, however I think it obvious that my email was not intended to be rude. Considering how rarely we see moderators of this list officially using their authority to criticise users, in fact I do not recall this happening in 2013 or 2014 until now, I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue of the UK Chapter sending more people to the Wikimedia Conference this weekend than any other Chapter, including the hosts, with the inevitable response of being called a troll by one of the current trustees.
The trend for the Chapter has been to stifle debate, as we have seen with how the Village Pump on the chapter wiki being reduced to announcements by employees and "positive statements" rather than open discussion of issues and problems. If this has started to extend to censorship of this list for vague perceptions of "tone" by Chapter employees, then I'm afraid that volunteers will end up writing anonymously on Wikipediocracy if they want to change anything or be heard.
This list has always been presented as not managed by the Chapter. If the Chapter is now effectively controlling it, then I think it loses much of its value as a community sounding board.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 14:34, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point, which is that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would you mind including all the relevant information in your emails to the list", for example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not to point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid instead of Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of everyone else subscribed to this list.
Thanks,
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
No, Fae, I don't think that is obvious at all. It came across as snarky and bitchy and Richard was well within his rights to call you on it. On 13 Apr 2014 15:52, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Sure Harry, however I think it obvious that my email was not intended to be rude. Considering how rarely we see moderators of this list officially using their authority to criticise users, in fact I do not recall this happening in 2013 or 2014 until now, I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue of the UK Chapter sending more people to the Wikimedia Conference this weekend than any other Chapter, including the hosts, with the inevitable response of being called a troll by one of the current trustees.
The trend for the Chapter has been to stifle debate, as we have seen with how the Village Pump on the chapter wiki being reduced to announcements by employees and "positive statements" rather than open discussion of issues and problems. If this has started to extend to censorship of this list for vague perceptions of "tone" by Chapter employees, then I'm afraid that volunteers will end up writing anonymously on Wikipediocracy if they want to change anything or be heard.
This list has always been presented as not managed by the Chapter. If the Chapter is now effectively controlling it, then I think it loses much of its value as a community sounding board.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 14:34, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point,
which is
that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would you
mind
including all the relevant information in your emails to the list", for example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not to point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid instead
of
Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of everyone
else
subscribed to this list.
Thanks,
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the
chapter
and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility
might
be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort
into
being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can
at
least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Hi James,
Thanks for chipping in as a moderator. I look forward to the moderators being just as critical with other contributors on this list when they are perceived to be snarky or bitchy, I am sure you wish to treat all contributors here equally.
As Harry mentions, there have been many posts far worse than mine on this list, yet moderators have not felt the need to step in before.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 15:54, James Farrar james.farrar@gmail.com wrote:
No, Fae, I don't think that is obvious at all. It came across as snarky and bitchy and Richard was well within his rights to call you on it.
On 13 Apr 2014 15:52, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Sure Harry, however I think it obvious that my email was not intended to be rude. Considering how rarely we see moderators of this list officially using their authority to criticise users, in fact I do not recall this happening in 2013 or 2014 until now, I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue of the UK Chapter sending more people to the Wikimedia Conference this weekend than any other Chapter, including the hosts, with the inevitable response of being called a troll by one of the current trustees.
The trend for the Chapter has been to stifle debate, as we have seen with how the Village Pump on the chapter wiki being reduced to announcements by employees and "positive statements" rather than open discussion of issues and problems. If this has started to extend to censorship of this list for vague perceptions of "tone" by Chapter employees, then I'm afraid that volunteers will end up writing anonymously on Wikipediocracy if they want to change anything or be heard.
This list has always been presented as not managed by the Chapter. If the Chapter is now effectively controlling it, then I think it loses much of its value as a community sounding board.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 14:34, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point, which is that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would you mind including all the relevant information in your emails to the list", for example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not to point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid instead of Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of everyone else subscribed to this list.
Thanks,
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
As someone who reads the list but rarely contributes, may I make a suggestion? Moderators absolutely should pull people up for using an inappropriate tone in their emails. However this should be done, in the first instance, privately.
Theresa On 13 Apr 2014 15:58, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Hi James,
Thanks for chipping in as a moderator. I look forward to the moderators being just as critical with other contributors on this list when they are perceived to be snarky or bitchy, I am sure you wish to treat all contributors here equally.
As Harry mentions, there have been many posts far worse than mine on this list, yet moderators have not felt the need to step in before.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 15:54, James Farrar james.farrar@gmail.com wrote:
No, Fae, I don't think that is obvious at all. It came across as snarky
and
bitchy and Richard was well within his rights to call you on it.
On 13 Apr 2014 15:52, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Sure Harry, however I think it obvious that my email was not intended to be rude. Considering how rarely we see moderators of this list officially using their authority to criticise users, in fact I do not recall this happening in 2013 or 2014 until now, I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue of the UK Chapter sending more people to the Wikimedia Conference this weekend than any other Chapter, including the hosts, with the inevitable response of being called a troll by one of the current trustees.
The trend for the Chapter has been to stifle debate, as we have seen with how the Village Pump on the chapter wiki being reduced to announcements by employees and "positive statements" rather than open discussion of issues and problems. If this has started to extend to censorship of this list for vague perceptions of "tone" by Chapter employees, then I'm afraid that volunteers will end up writing anonymously on Wikipediocracy if they want to change anything or be heard.
This list has always been presented as not managed by the Chapter. If the Chapter is now effectively controlling it, then I think it loses much of its value as a community sounding board.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 14:34, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point, which is that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would you mind including all the relevant information in your emails to the list",
for
example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not
to
point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid
instead
of Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of everyone else subscribed to this list.
Thanks,
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is
unacceptably
rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such
a
rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we
can
at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
On 13 April 2014 16:04, Theresa Knott theresaknott@gmail.com wrote:
As someone who reads the list but rarely contributes, may I make a suggestion? Moderators absolutely should pull people up for using an inappropriate tone in their emails. However this should be done, in the first instance, privately.
This is far from the first time.
- d.
As another lurker on this list, I agree with Theresa; the moderators should be proactive in making sure that the tone of the list stays constructive. This doesn't mean silencing dissent and criticism (which I don't think is the case here), but it does mean that there should be certain minimum standards of courtesy and good manners adhered to. I'm sure that no rudeness was intended, but sometimes through the medium of email it can come across that way, and it's worth taking an extra few moments to review what you write and make sure it can't be taken in the wrong way.
Being a mailing list admin must be a thankless job, so thanks to those who have taken on the job here for being proactive in this situation.
Cheers, Craig
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Theresa Knott theresaknott@gmail.comwrote:
As someone who reads the list but rarely contributes, may I make a suggestion? Moderators absolutely should pull people up for using an inappropriate tone in their emails. However this should be done, in the first instance, privately.
Theresa On 13 Apr 2014 15:58, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Hi James,
Thanks for chipping in as a moderator. I look forward to the moderators being just as critical with other contributors on this list when they are perceived to be snarky or bitchy, I am sure you wish to treat all contributors here equally.
As Harry mentions, there have been many posts far worse than mine on this list, yet moderators have not felt the need to step in before.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 15:54, James Farrar james.farrar@gmail.com wrote:
No, Fae, I don't think that is obvious at all. It came across as snarky
and
bitchy and Richard was well within his rights to call you on it.
On 13 Apr 2014 15:52, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Sure Harry, however I think it obvious that my email was not intended to be rude. Considering how rarely we see moderators of this list officially using their authority to criticise users, in fact I do not recall this happening in 2013 or 2014 until now, I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue of the UK Chapter sending more people to the Wikimedia Conference this weekend than any other Chapter, including the hosts, with the inevitable response of being called a troll by one of the current trustees.
The trend for the Chapter has been to stifle debate, as we have seen with how the Village Pump on the chapter wiki being reduced to announcements by employees and "positive statements" rather than open discussion of issues and problems. If this has started to extend to censorship of this list for vague perceptions of "tone" by Chapter employees, then I'm afraid that volunteers will end up writing anonymously on Wikipediocracy if they want to change anything or be heard.
This list has always been presented as not managed by the Chapter. If the Chapter is now effectively controlling it, then I think it loses much of its value as a community sounding board.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 14:34, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point, which is that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would
you
mind including all the relevant information in your emails to the list",
for
example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not
to
point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid
instead
of Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of
everyone
else subscribed to this list.
Thanks,
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is
unacceptably
rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email
came
across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the
general
editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that
such a
rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we
can
at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
I hope they will step in more in future. We should all aim to maintain a level of decorum on this list, even when we're criticising one another, and the moderators should say something when the decorum slips. Harry Mitchell
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 15:58, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Hi James,
Thanks for chipping in as a moderator. I look forward to the moderators being just as critical with other contributors on this list when they are perceived to be snarky or bitchy, I am sure you wish to treat all contributors here equally.
As Harry mentions, there have been many posts far worse than mine on this list, yet moderators have not felt the need to step in before.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 15:54, James Farrar james.farrar@gmail.com wrote:
No, Fae, I don't think that is obvious at all. It came across as snarky and bitchy and Richard was well within his rights to call you on it.
On 13 Apr 2014 15:52, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Sure Harry, however I think it obvious that my email was not intended to be rude. Considering how rarely we see moderators of this list officially using their authority to criticise users, in fact I do not recall this happening in 2013 or 2014 until now, I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue of the UK Chapter sending more people to the Wikimedia Conference this weekend than any other Chapter, including the hosts, with the inevitable response of being called a troll by one of the current trustees.
The trend for the Chapter has been to stifle debate, as we have seen with how the Village Pump on the chapter wiki being reduced to announcements by employees and "positive statements" rather than open discussion of issues and problems. If this has started to extend to censorship of this list for vague perceptions of "tone" by Chapter employees, then I'm afraid that volunteers will end up writing anonymously on Wikipediocracy if they want to change anything or be heard.
This list has always been presented as not managed by the Chapter. If the Chapter is now effectively controlling it, then I think it loses much of its value as a community sounding board.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 14:34, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point, which is that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would you mind including all the relevant information in your emails to the list", for example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not to point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid instead of Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of everyone else subscribed to this list.
Thanks,
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is unacceptably rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such a rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we can at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
As a moderator? On 13 Apr 2014 15:58, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Hi James,
Thanks for chipping in as a moderator. I look forward to the moderators being just as critical with other contributors on this list when they are perceived to be snarky or bitchy, I am sure you wish to treat all contributors here equally.
As Harry mentions, there have been many posts far worse than mine on this list, yet moderators have not felt the need to step in before.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 15:54, James Farrar james.farrar@gmail.com wrote:
No, Fae, I don't think that is obvious at all. It came across as snarky
and
bitchy and Richard was well within his rights to call you on it.
On 13 Apr 2014 15:52, "Fæ" faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Sure Harry, however I think it obvious that my email was not intended to be rude. Considering how rarely we see moderators of this list officially using their authority to criticise users, in fact I do not recall this happening in 2013 or 2014 until now, I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue of the UK Chapter sending more people to the Wikimedia Conference this weekend than any other Chapter, including the hosts, with the inevitable response of being called a troll by one of the current trustees.
The trend for the Chapter has been to stifle debate, as we have seen with how the Village Pump on the chapter wiki being reduced to announcements by employees and "positive statements" rather than open discussion of issues and problems. If this has started to extend to censorship of this list for vague perceptions of "tone" by Chapter employees, then I'm afraid that volunteers will end up writing anonymously on Wikipediocracy if they want to change anything or be heard.
This list has always been presented as not managed by the Chapter. If the Chapter is now effectively controlling it, then I think it loses much of its value as a community sounding board.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 14:34, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Fae,
I've seen worse emails to this list, but I can see Richard's point, which is that you could have written something to the effect of "Jon, would you mind including all the relevant information in your emails to the list",
for
example, which has the same meaning but does not come across as unnecessarily hostile. He wasn't asking you not to criticise, or not
to
point out Jon's omission (if he was, I'd be jumping to your aid
instead
of Richard's), just to tone it down one notch for the benefit of everyone else subscribed to this list.
Thanks,
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell On Sunday, 13 April 2014, 10:04, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't get it.
Can someone please highlight exactly how this statement is
unacceptably
rude? "If you are going to repost emails to this list, please ensure you include the relevant content."
Fae
On 13 April 2014 08:36, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hello all,
I feel that as a list moderator I should step in and say that, for a second there, the tone of this list dropped needlessly. Fae, your email came across as rude: whether you meant it or not, that's how it came across.
The main reason that this mailing list isn't much used by the general editing population is in my experience because the tone is hostile. That has to change if this list is to stay relevant and at the heart of the chapter and the UK movement. I accept that sometimes in real life hostility might be necessary in order to accomplish a goal, but I don't think that such
a
rule holds true on an internet mailing list.
A reminder to us all (myself included) to put an extra bit of effort into being polite on the Internet. I don't want to stifle debate, and there's no problem with bad language if it's used to emphasise a point, but we
can
at least keep a friendly face on most emails.
Complaints or comments should be addressed to the list moderators at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
On 13 April 2014 15:52, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue
Fae, speaking as a list mod - your overwhelming bitterness and your default assumption of bad faith when you post to this list (or to other Wikimedia lists, for that matter) overshadow any substance your posts may have under it all. It's incredibly wearying, and we would like you to cool it. Thanks.
- d.
Thanks David.
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on essential changes the charity needed and still needs from leaking out in my emails.
I'll consider how to share more of my experience of my time as a trustee in line with the ethical values of openness and honesty agreed to in the Trustee Code of Conduct.
Fae
On 13 April 2014 16:07, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 13 April 2014 15:52, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
I find this incredibly odd. It seems reasonable to connect this sudden assumption of bad faith, to my recent posts to Wikimedia-l which raised the issue
Fae, speaking as a list mod - your overwhelming bitterness and your default assumption of bad faith when you post to this list (or to other Wikimedia lists, for that matter) overshadow any substance your posts may have under it all. It's incredibly wearying, and we would like you to cool it. Thanks.
- d.
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on essential changes the charity needed and still needs from leaking out in my emails.
This list has members of the charity and non members. Hence, it cannot be used to discuss the registered charity (Wikimedia UK), since that could only be done by "members only" to have any validity.
Gordo
On 13 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on essential changes the charity needed and still needs from leaking out in my emails.
This list has members of the charity and non members. Hence, it cannot be used to discuss the registered charity (Wikimedia UK), since that could only be done by "members only" to have any validity.
I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. Of course it can be used by non-members to discuss the charity. What sort of validity are you referring to?
Thanks, Mike
Indeed. It doesn't make sense to limit suggestions or offers of help to only being from members. Anyone is welcome if they have something constructive to say, member or not.
Dan
On 14 April 2014 14:13, Michael Peel michael.peel@manchester.ac.uk wrote:
On 13 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on essential changes the charity needed and still needs from leaking out in my emails.
This list has members of the charity and non members. Hence, it cannot be used to discuss the registered charity (Wikimedia UK), since that could only be done by "members only" to have any validity.
I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. Of course it can be used by non-members to discuss the charity. What sort of validity are you referring to?
Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Just wondering if there are any more comments on the Armenian Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSbrivrpzmw
On 14 April 2014 22:34, Deskana djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. It doesn't make sense to limit suggestions or offers of help to only being from members. Anyone is welcome if they have something constructive to say, member or not.
Dan
On 14 April 2014 14:13, Michael Peel michael.peel@manchester.ac.ukwrote:
On 13 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on essential changes the charity needed and still needs from leaking out in my emails.
This list has members of the charity and non members. Hence, it cannot be used to discuss the registered charity (Wikimedia UK), since that could only be done by "members only" to have any validity.
I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. Of course it can be used by non-members to discuss the charity. What sort of validity are you referring to?
Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
It's a lovely video indeed, Jon. It's great to see High School students be part of a Wikipedia Education Programme. Lilit is doing a great job in Armenia. I would have liked to see more than just the students in the video though, by which I mean the teacher/tutor so we can hear how they prepared for this project and how other teachers could do it -- that sort of thing would make it even more useful. Convincing students is much easier than convincing teachers of the benefits of using Wikipedia in the classroom in this way.
On a more minor point, I think showing a student holding an iPad is also a little misleading because it's not as easy for a newbie to edit Wikipedia on an iPad from my experience, but perhaps that's just a very personal perspective. It may also have to do with personal levels of digital literacy.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this video.
Cheers,
Toni
On Tuesday, 15 April 2014, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Just wondering if there are any more comments on the Armenian Video
Wikipedia in Ayb High School
On 14 April 2014 22:34, Deskana djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. It doesn't make sense to limit suggestions or offers of help to
only being from members. Anyone is welcome if they have something constructive to say, member or not.
Dan
On 14 April 2014 14:13, Michael Peel michael.peel@manchester.ac.uk
wrote:
On 13 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
It would be super if the video were released on a free license, presumably WMAM intended this to be their default but Youtube does not make this easy. Someone may want to contact the Armenian chapter and help them to transcode it and upload it to Commons. Users Vacio or Beko may wish to assist.
Photographs related to the making of the video have been released at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Armenia_in_Ayb_High_School
Fae
On 15 April 2014 09:14, Toni Sant toni.sant@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
It's a lovely video indeed, Jon. It's great to see High School students be part of a Wikipedia Education Programme. Lilit is doing a great job in Armenia. I would have liked to see more than just the students in the video though, by which I mean the teacher/tutor so we can hear how they prepared for this project and how other teachers could do it -- that sort of thing would make it even more useful. Convincing students is much easier than convincing teachers of the benefits of using Wikipedia in the classroom in this way.
On a more minor point, I think showing a student holding an iPad is also a little misleading because it's not as easy for a newbie to edit Wikipedia on an iPad from my experience, but perhaps that's just a very personal perspective. It may also have to do with personal levels of digital literacy.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this video.
Cheers,
Toni
On Tuesday, 15 April 2014, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Just wondering if there are any more comments on the Armenian Video
Wikipedia in Ayb High School
On 14 April 2014 22:34, Deskana djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. It doesn't make sense to limit suggestions or offers of help to only being from members. Anyone is welcome if they have something constructive to say, member or not. Dan
On 14 April 2014 14:13, Michael Peel michael.peel@manchester.ac.uk wrote:
On 13 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
--
Dr Toni Sant - Education Organiser, Wikimedia UK toni.sant@wikimedia.org.uk +44 (0)7885 980 536
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
From Lilet in Armenia - can anyone help her?
lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Hi Jon I'm very happy that so many people liked our video. The video is free. We wanted to upload it to commons but as the video size is 533Mb commons didn't allow to upload such a large video. Thanks Best regards
On 15 April 2014 09:31, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
It would be super if the video were released on a free license, presumably WMAM intended this to be their default but Youtube does not make this easy. Someone may want to contact the Armenian chapter and help them to transcode it and upload it to Commons. Users Vacio or Beko may wish to assist.
Photographs related to the making of the video have been released at < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Armenia_in_Ayb_High_Sc...
Fae
On 15 April 2014 09:14, Toni Sant toni.sant@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
It's a lovely video indeed, Jon. It's great to see High School students
be
part of a Wikipedia Education Programme. Lilit is doing a great job in Armenia. I would have liked to see more than just the students in the
video
though, by which I mean the teacher/tutor so we can hear how they
prepared
for this project and how other teachers could do it -- that sort of thing would make it even more useful. Convincing students is much easier than convincing teachers of the benefits of using Wikipedia in the classroom
in
this way.
On a more minor point, I think showing a student holding an iPad is also
a
little misleading because it's not as easy for a newbie to edit
Wikipedia on
an iPad from my experience, but perhaps that's just a very personal perspective. It may also have to do with personal levels of digital literacy.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this video.
Cheers,
Toni
On Tuesday, 15 April 2014, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
Just wondering if there are any more comments on the Armenian Video
Wikipedia in Ayb High School
On 14 April 2014 22:34, Deskana djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. It doesn't make sense to limit suggestions or offers of help to only being from members. Anyone is welcome if they have something constructive to say, member or not. Dan
On 14 April 2014 14:13, Michael Peel michael.peel@manchester.ac.uk wrote:
On 13 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
--
Dr Toni Sant - Education Organiser, Wikimedia UK toni.sant@wikimedia.org.uk +44 (0)7885 980 536
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over
Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
The original file may have been this large, but the one on Youtube is not. I'll take a look at it.
Fae
On 15 April 2014 10:39, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
From Lilet in Armenia - can anyone help her?
lilit.tarkhanyan@wikimedia.am Hi Jon I'm very happy that so many people liked our video. The video is free. We wanted to upload it to commons but as the video size is 533Mb commons didn't allow to upload such a large video. Thanks Best regards
On 15 April 2014 09:31, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
It would be super if the video were released on a free license, presumably WMAM intended this to be their default but Youtube does not make this easy. Someone may want to contact the Armenian chapter and help them to transcode it and upload it to Commons. Users Vacio or Beko may wish to assist.
Photographs related to the making of the video have been released at
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Armenia_in_Ayb_High_School
Fae
On 15 April 2014 09:14, Toni Sant toni.sant@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
It's a lovely video indeed, Jon. It's great to see High School students be part of a Wikipedia Education Programme. Lilit is doing a great job in Armenia. I would have liked to see more than just the students in the video though, by which I mean the teacher/tutor so we can hear how they prepared for this project and how other teachers could do it -- that sort of thing would make it even more useful. Convincing students is much easier than convincing teachers of the benefits of using Wikipedia in the classroom in this way.
On a more minor point, I think showing a student holding an iPad is also a little misleading because it's not as easy for a newbie to edit Wikipedia on an iPad from my experience, but perhaps that's just a very personal perspective. It may also have to do with personal levels of digital literacy.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this video.
Cheers,
Toni
On Tuesday, 15 April 2014, Jon Davies jon.davies@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Just wondering if there are any more comments on the Armenian Video
Wikipedia in Ayb High School
On 14 April 2014 22:34, Deskana djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed. It doesn't make sense to limit suggestions or offers of help to only being from members. Anyone is welcome if they have something constructive to say, member or not. Dan
On 14 April 2014 14:13, Michael Peel michael.peel@manchester.ac.uk wrote:
On 13 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Gordon Joly gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 16:16, Fæ wrote:
With regard to cooling it, I suppose it is hard to stop my experience and long term frustration in being unable to follow through or have a frank discussion on
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
--
Dr Toni Sant - Education Organiser, Wikimedia UK toni.sant@wikimedia.org.uk +44 (0)7885 980 536
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
-- Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
The video is now uploaded to Commons at: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_in_Ayb_High_School.ogv
Fae
Thanks, Fae!
That's useful.
Best wishes,
Toni
On Tuesday, 15 April 2014, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
The video is now uploaded to Commons at: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_in_Ayb_High_School.ogv
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Hurray! Fantastic news.
Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
On 15 April 2014 13:20, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
The video is now uploaded to Commons at: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_in_Ayb_High_School.ogv
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Lovely.
On 15 April 2014 13:27, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Hurray! Fantastic news.
Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
On 15 April 2014 13:20, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
The video is now uploaded to Commons at: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_in_Ayb_High_School.ogv
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
Nice work Fae!
Hehe - I was converting it to webm at the same time.
If anybody wants the webm version which is 13.8 MB, rather than the ogv which is 17.9 MB (same 1280x720), just let me know.
I think we still need to add the English subtitles, unless I'm missing something when I play the file from Commons.
Cheers
On 15 April 2014 13:39, rexx rexx@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Nice work Fae!
Hehe - I was converting it to webm at the same time.
...
Rexx, I may be wrong (I did not follow the development of this feature in any detail), but your webm version is probably the same as the webm version included in the different transcoded files that Commons generates. Check the bottom section, "Transcode status", of the image page at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_in_Ayb_High_School.ogv. It gives several handy different types of file that can be downloaded.
Fae
Yes, the tool creates a 720p mp4 as the first step of snatching it from YouTube - it's 751 Kbps video and 112 Kbps audio.
I manually snatched the 720p mp4 from YouTube at the best rate that it would give - 1135 Kbps video and 192 Kbps audio, and then I manually converted that to webm and tried to optimise the compression, so it's somewhat different from the auto-created version on Commons.
As it turns out, my old eyes can't detect any difference in quality between any of the bitrates, so I reckon that Fireogg and your script turn out just as good results as me trying to optimise everything. As I said - nice work!
Cheers
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org