I've been going around in circles on software and not been getting any real content created for the last few years, so I've decided to ignore the problems and just get on with material. My starting point is OSM, and I've been adding links from places in wikipedia to their entry in OSM. For places read county/borough/city/town/village/hamlet/suburb, the last four of which Facebook lump under 'city' and make a complete mess of things.
Plan off attack is to make sure all the places locally exist in wikipedia and I sort of got off to a good start, but hit a problem with miss matched names and missing entries. I've modified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Subedge_railway_station to use the correct name for the period the railway existed, but there was no page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Sub_Edge which I've created by cribbing other local villages. My crib sheet of names lists 'Weston Subedge' as taken from the ONS list but I'm waiting on some feed back from the Parish Clerk as to the 'official' spelling nowadays.
I've extended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston-sub-Edge to include it's information box.
There is room for more work and additional links to other material, but basically ... am I on the right line. I'm planning to spiral out, and have a small list of missing village and hamlets to add to wikipedia and I'm cross checking everything against my other lists.
Lester, Good luck with your project.
For a big list of UK locations you might like to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_locations which still includes thousands of redlinks.
I have asked whether it is possible to extract all of the locations in a county from this list, but, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever worked out a way to do this.
Rod
-----Original Message----- From: wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Lester Caine Sent: 12 September 2015 21:20 To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Getting back in ...
I've been going around in circles on software and not been getting any real content created for the last few years, so I've decided to ignore the problems and just get on with material. My starting point is OSM, and I've been adding links from places in wikipedia to their entry in OSM. For places read county/borough/city/town/village/hamlet/suburb, the last four of which Facebook lump under 'city' and make a complete mess of things.
Plan off attack is to make sure all the places locally exist in wikipedia and I sort of got off to a good start, but hit a problem with miss matched names and missing entries. I've modified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Subedge_railway_station to use the correct name for the period the railway existed, but there was no page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Sub_Edge which I've created by cribbing other local villages. My crib sheet of names lists 'Weston Subedge' as taken from the ONS list but I'm waiting on some feed back from the Parish Clerk as to the 'official' spelling nowadays.
I've extended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston-sub-Edge to include it's information box.
There is room for more work and additional links to other material, but basically ... am I on the right line. I'm planning to spiral out, and have a small list of missing village and hamlets to add to wikipedia and I'm cross checking everything against my other lists.
-- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
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On 12 Sep 2015 10:09 pm, "Rod Ward" ...
I have asked whether it is possible to extract all of the locations in a
county from this list, but, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever worked out a way to do this. ...
This can be done. On Conmons I have used the Ordnance Survey data set to return a UK county (or administrative level equivalent) given a geocoordinate.
Fae
Fae,
If county level lists can be created from the list, I would offer to create articles (or more likely redirects) for all the tiny hamlets etc left as red links for the county of Somerset. I wonder of others (perhaps via county wikiprojects) would do those for other counties?
Rod
From: wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Fæ Sent: 13 September 2015 04:32 To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Getting back in ...
On 12 Sep 2015 10:09 pm, "Rod Ward" ...
I have asked whether it is possible to extract all of the locations in a county from this list, but, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever worked out a way to do this.
...
This can be done. On Conmons I have used the Ordnance Survey data set to return a UK county (or administrative level equivalent) given a geocoordinate.
Fae
On 13/09/15 08:22, Rod Ward wrote:
If county level lists can be created from the list, I would offer to create articles (or more likely redirects) for all the tiny hamlets etc left as red links for the county of Somerset. I wonder of others (perhaps via county wikiprojects) would do those for other counties?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Villages_in_England_by_county Somerset is a little lacking ... Seems Goucestershire and Worcestershire have already had a lot of love.
But the problem I am highlighting is where the OS data is in conflict with what is on the ground! Another source is the 2011 population figures from the ONS, but these are only by parish and while the list of parishes uses one spelling, the census figures do not.
Rod ... What is needed for Somerset is to add the right link to all of the Somerset pages. [[Category:Villages in Somerset]] [[Category:Hamlets in Somerset]]
But now I start looking I'm getting confused ... it seems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_Somerset is the equivalent for Somerset and I have manually created pages of the same for Worcestershire and Gloucestershire, but in my book that is simply pointless.
This is why I put my hand up ... just WHAT are the long term plans for this material. *I* expect a wiki to provide links to uses of a page in other pages along with this sort of automatic populationg, and it seems the systems now exist for some of that, but the 'old school' material also still exists?
Hi Lester,
Thanks. I am aware of the categories and lists, however these will not include those places which are still red links because they do not have an article (or redirect to their parish).
I would suggest highlighting your work on this at WikiProject UK geography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_geography ) where there have been related discussions over the years.
Rod
-----Original Message----- From: wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Lester Caine Sent: 13 September 2015 10:02 To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Getting back in ...
On 13/09/15 08:22, Rod Ward wrote:
If county level lists can be created from the list, I would offer to create articles (or more likely redirects) for all the tiny hamlets etc left as red links for the county of Somerset. I wonder of others (perhaps via county wikiprojects) would do those for other counties?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Villages_in_England_by_county Somerset is a little lacking ... Seems Goucestershire and Worcestershire have already had a lot of love.
But the problem I am highlighting is where the OS data is in conflict with what is on the ground! Another source is the 2011 population figures from the ONS, but these are only by parish and while the list of parishes uses one spelling, the census figures do not.
Rod ... What is needed for Somerset is to add the right link to all of the Somerset pages. [[Category:Villages in Somerset]] [[Category:Hamlets in Somerset]]
But now I start looking I'm getting confused ... it seems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_Somerset is the equivalent for Somerset and I have manually created pages of the same for Worcestershire and Gloucestershire, but in my book that is simply pointless.
This is why I put my hand up ... just WHAT are the long term plans for this material. *I* expect a wiki to provide links to uses of a page in other pages along with this sort of automatic populationg, and it seems the systems now exist for some of that, but the 'old school' material also still exists?
-- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
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On 12/09/15 21:19, Lester Caine wrote:
Plan off attack is to make sure all the places locally exist in wikipedia and I sort of got off to a good start, but hit a problem with miss matched names and missing entries. I've modified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Subedge_railway_station to use the correct name for the period the railway existed, but there was no page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Sub_Edge which I've created by cribbing other local villages. My crib sheet of names lists 'Weston Subedge' as taken from the ONS list but I'm waiting on some feed back from the Parish Clerk as to the 'official' spelling nowadays.
Will Wikidata help?
Gordo
On 13/09/15 13:18, Gordon Joly wrote:
On 12/09/15 21:19, Lester Caine wrote:
Plan off attack is to make sure all the places locally exist in wikipedia and I sort of got off to a good start, but hit a problem with miss matched names and missing entries. I've modified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Subedge_railway_station to use the correct name for the period the railway existed, but there was no page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Sub_Edge which I've created by cribbing other local villages. My crib sheet of names lists 'Weston Subedge' as taken from the ONS list but I'm waiting on some feed back from the Parish Clerk as to the 'official' spelling nowadays.
Will Wikidata help?
It's yet something else to have to worry about? Looks like it needs all of the changes going into OSM and wikipedia then need manually cross referencing in wikidata?
My main problem is that none of the major systems provide an ideal solution to the basic problem of handling genealogical data. On OSM the camp that demands that nothing 'historic' is retained in the main database are trying to push their view, much as some views get pushed in wikipedia (which is why I stopped adding data previously when pages kept being deleted).
Wikipedia has a little of the same 'it must be current' going on, yet the historic material is often buried in the pages themselves, just as the history of the changes to maps is buried in the change log of OSM. And Wikidata is based on a similar restricted view? I can't see a means of time-stamping data such as population data which evolves over time.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Towns_and_villages_in_Worcesters... is yet another area to keep in touch with? But I have at least found some historic material properly dated within that data. I'm planning a run around here with the camera to add some extra images to use on the new pages.
That place names evolve over time is a simple fact, and while normally there is some clean determination on a change, a boundary change for electoral reasons, or the adoption of a new name for so local event, other changes are a little less distinct. However simply redirecting from one name to another, or burying it as an old_name looses the key piece of information as to when the change occurred. If one is working through the early census information tracking a families movement, then the name valid at that time is the one one would like to look up and here we do have many examples of old addresses that have a completely different form today. The ones that currently fall through the gaps are old road names which have been lost through new development or simple renaming. While a renaming may be 'noteworthy' enough to justify a wikipedia page, there is no reliable place to look up the location of these former addresses whoever they come about.
Now if all of the information in the right hand box on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Sub_Edge was populated from the wikidata entry, and the evolution of things like 'population' and other local variable data was also stored in wikidata then I think things would be a lot easier to manage over time? CAN we select data from wikidata as we can now add [[Category:xxx]] tags?
On 13 September 2015 at 14:59, Lester Caine lester@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Now if all of the information in the right hand box on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Sub_Edge was populated from the wikidata entry, and the evolution of things like 'population' and other local variable data was also stored in wikidata then I think things would be a lot easier to manage over time? CAN we select data from wikidata as we can now add [[Category:xxx]] tags?
Two points here. "Population" from Wikidata is under active development in more than one fashion (infoboxes, and now lists). Time series on Wikidata are not as advanced, though I have discussions with Magnus Manske about a way ahead.
Charles
On 13/09/15 17:14, Charles Matthews wrote:
Now if all of the information in the right hand box on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Sub_Edge was populated from the wikidata entry, and the evolution of things like 'population' and other local variable data was also stored in wikidata then I think things would be a lot easier to manage over time? CAN we select data from wikidata as we can now add [[Category:xxx]] tags?Two points here. "Population" from Wikidata is under active development in more than one fashion (infoboxes, and now lists). Time series on Wikidata are not as advanced, though I have discussions with Magnus Manske about a way ahead.
I asked on freenode on the wikidata channel and was told that the Russians are using wikidata for location information boxes. My background is databases and data management so I'm more used to creating the raw data and then displaying it rather than manual creating each end page :)
I'd not really appreciated that I was adding the pages I was working on into other lists, but that seems the right way, since those lists now include the amendments. However those tags should really be from wikidata so I think what I'm looking for is a boilerplate for a 'town/village/hamlet' in wikidata that contains the items used in the info box. I HAVE all that data already in a relational database and including population data but I've hit another one of those brick walls that stopped me doing this in the past :(
On 12/09/15 21:19, Lester Caine wrote:
I've modified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Subedge_railway_station to use the correct name for the period the railway existed
OK so how come it's been switched back to the wrong name again? No emails which were requested ... no comments other than the change to the redirect the wrong way :( Is there ANY point contributing verifiable data to wikipedia!
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