Hi,
Philipe (WMF head of reader relations) recently reverted a :en geonotice added by Deryck Chan. This appears to run counter to the previous position held by the WMF that they leave the decisions to the Wikipedia community and would not interfere (presumably unless there was a legal issue).
Raising on this email list in consideration of previous debate on this topic when the chapter wanted to use a geonotice to encourage applications from our Wikimedia UK community for the WMUK CEO position and as most people will not follow WP:GN.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Geonotice#WMF_veto_of_geonotices
Cheers, Fae -- http://enwp.org/user_talk:fae Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags
Hi,
I was surprised when Fæ named me as the person who got reverted. Turns out it isn't me. The whole sequence of events should be summarised thus:
1. Pharos added the original WLL (Wikipedia Loves Libraries) notice on 15 August http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=pr... 2. Jalexander reverted on 16 August, citing a comment by Philippe. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&actio... 3. Pharos reverted again on the same day. The geonotice stayed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=ne... 4. Aude updated the WLL notice on 6 September. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=pr... 5. Philippe took down all WLL geonotices today. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&actio...
*No UK geonotices were involved in this incident*. However, since the UK community is a major user of en.wp geonotices, I do recommend that we participate in the discussion Fæ initiated on the talk-page.
Deryck
On 7 October 2011 09:13, Fae faenwp@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Philipe (WMF head of reader relations) recently reverted a :en geonotice added by Deryck Chan. This appears to run counter to the previous position held by the WMF that they leave the decisions to the Wikipedia community and would not interfere (presumably unless there was a legal issue).
Raising on this email list in consideration of previous debate on this topic when the chapter wanted to use a geonotice to encourage applications from our Wikimedia UK community for the WMUK CEO position and as most people will not follow WP:GN.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Geonotice#WMF_veto_of_geonotices
Cheers, Fae -- http://enwp.org/user_talk:fae Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
If I'm reading Philippe's edit summary right, he seems to be reverting because WLL is apparently covered by a centralnotice, and so it doesn't need a geonotice as well. If that's the case, then WMF or not, it's just housekeeping.
Harry
________________________________ From: Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, 7 October 2011, 11:23 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] WMF veto on geonotices?
Hi,
I was surprised when Fæ named me as the person who got reverted. Turns out it isn't me. The whole sequence of events should be summarised thus:
1. Pharos added the original WLL (Wikipedia Loves Libraries) notice on 15 August http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=pr... 2. Jalexander reverted on 16 August, citing a comment by Philippe. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&actio... 3. Pharos reverted again on the same day. The geonotice stayed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=ne... 4. Aude updated the WLL notice on 6 September. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=pr... 5. Philippe took down all WLL geonotices today. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&actio... UK geonotices were involved in this incident. However, since the UK community is a major user of en.wp geonotices, I do recommend that we participate in the discussion Fæ initiated on the talk-page.
Deryck
On 7 October 2011 09:13, Fae faenwp@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Philipe (WMF head of reader relations) recently reverted a :en geonotice added by Deryck Chan. This appears to run counter to the previous position held by the WMF that they leave the decisions to the Wikipedia community and would not interfere (presumably unless there was a legal issue).
Raising on this email list in consideration of previous debate on this topic when the chapter wanted to use a geonotice to encourage applications from our Wikimedia UK community for the WMUK CEO position and as most people will not follow WP:GN.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Geonotice#WMF_veto_of_geonotices
Cheers, Fae -- http://enwp.org/user_talk:fae Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
When Philippe uses his WMF account, per his user page, he is acting for the WMF in his staff role. If this was a mistake then fair enough but it should be explained by Philippe not assumed by everyone else.
I am unclear about the WLL central notice. Is there a discussion somewhere that explains why this notice about a regional GLAM activity would be a central notice rather than a USA specific Wikipedia geonotice?
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Philippe_(WMF)
Cheers, Fae
On 7 October 2011 13:02, Fae faenwp@gmail.com wrote:
I am unclear about the WLL central notice. Is there a discussion somewhere that explains why this notice about a regional GLAM activity would be a central notice rather than a USA specific Wikipedia geonotice?
The centralnotice was requested by the same person who set up the geonotice, and I'm guessing it's intended to ensure non-WP projects are notified (Commons and WS are likely "interested parties"). It's still targeted to the US and Canada only, but now running on multiple projects.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CentralNotice/Calendar
There's no explicit policy I can see regarding not duplicating notices globally and locally, but it's something I've always understood to be discouraged.
I don't see how there can possibly be a problem with a Foundation staff member removing geonotices on the grounds that they are duplicated by CentralNotice.
I also think CentralNotice is being over-used a bit. While there are circumstances where I could see the chapter making use of it (so long as it didn't conflict with the annual fundraiser) I definitely wouldn't be keen on us using geolocated centralnotices to advertise meetups, etc...
Regards,
Chris
Personally, I couldn't care less which of the various notices I see, but I wouldn't want to see two notices about the same thing.
I guess the CentralNotice has the advantage of being cross-project; we could always request a cross-project geonotice, but I'm sure the devs have more important things to do (like installing new software that breaks everything...).
Harry
________________________________ From: Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, 7 October 2011, 19:52 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] WMF veto on geonotices?
I don't see how there can possibly be a problem with a Foundation staff member removing geonotices on the grounds that they are duplicated by CentralNotice.
I also think CentralNotice is being over-used a bit. While there are circumstances where I could see the chapter making use of it (so long as it didn't conflict with the annual fundraiser) I definitely wouldn't be keen on us using geolocated centralnotices to advertise meetups, etc...
Regards,
Chris _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
I think the original point is being diluted by repeated 'meh' opinions.
The issue here is that the WMF claimed no responsibility for the lobbying notice raised on it.wiki and when I asked for clarification were clear that they left these notices for the community. This contradicts the actions of Philippe using his staff account to make changes as he sees fit rather than taking the option of advising the community. If WMF staff are taking responsibility for making corrections or housekeeping for notices based on a WMF undeclared policy (such as not having similar CN and GN running in parallel) then they can no longer claim to have no responsibility when notices create adverse publicity or are used for community approved lobbying for the open movement.
Cheers, Fae -- http://enwp.org/user_talk:fae Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags
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