Wikimediauk-l December 2005

wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org

21 participants
29 discussions

Costs for signing/swearing documents.
by Gordon Joly 16 Dec '05

16 Dec '05

I have received an email from my solicitor who will charge 5 pounds per document. His firm is based in North West London. This is not the central London based firm who can advise us on the objects etc. -- Gordo (aka LoopZilla) gordon.joly(a)pobox.com http://pobox.com/~gordo/ http://www.loopzilla.org/

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Campaigning.
by Cormac Lawler 16 Dec '05

16 Dec '05

On 12/14/05, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote: > > > The current set of objects (a) to (e) has the following (final) object: > > e) to campaign if necessary against impediments and restrictions to the > above goals, wheresoever enacted, in the United Kingdom or overseas. > > But the Charities Commission guidelines at > > http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc9.asp > > > state: > > 3. However, where the campaign or other activity is of a political > nature (ie seeking to advocate or oppose a change in the law or > public policy), charity trustees must ensure that these activities do > not become the dominant means by which they carry out the purposes of > the charity. These activities must remain incidental or ancillary to > the charity's purposes. > > Does the fact that one of our five objects (and a reference to the > other four) give us explicit campaigning purpose and as hence as at > odds with the above clause? See also the rest of "CC9" > > CC9 - Campaigning and Political Activities by Charities > (Version - September 2004) I haven't read the above document(s), but the reason for this suggestion was that *if* we ever felt the need to campaign for a change in the law (in the UK or abroad), having this explicitly stated in the objects would allow us to do it. Campaigning will not be our predominant activity, so I still think we fit within the Charity Commision's guidelines. Cormac

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Changes in UK Law for Charities.
by Gordon Joly 15 Dec '05

15 Dec '05

"Britain's first reform of charity law for 400 years was finally included in the Queen's speech in December 2004. Annie Kelly explains how it will benefit and modernise the charity sector" Tuesday March 1, 2005 Full article at http://society.guardian.co.uk/charityreform/story/0,11494,1425601,00.html http://tinyurl.co.uk/ip8i Here is short extract: **** The bill has introduced a new list of 12 charitable purposes designed to better reflect public perception of charitable causes including advancement of amateur sports and advancement of human rights. This means that campaigning groups with a political slant to their work, such as Amnesty International, could now apply for charitable status. **** It has been noted that we should apply now, and with these changes in mind. -- Gordo (aka LoopZilla) gordon.joly(a)pobox.com http://pobox.com/~gordo/ http://www.loopzilla.org/

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FYI.
by Gordon Joly 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

FYI http://www.wikipediaclassaction.org/ -- Gordo (aka LoopZilla) gordon.joly(a)pobox.com http://pobox.com/~gordo/ http://www.loopzilla.org/

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] FYI.
by Andrew Gray 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

On 14/12/05, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote: > >My personal POV is that I do *not* consider myself "above the law" and am > >perfectly willing to stand by what I write (whether initial page content > >or a subsequent addition or deletion) but I cannot and will not accept any > >responsibility or liability for what happens to the content I create > >subsquent to my posting it to the site, hence the licencing used. > One issue comes to mind. Some of use alaises. David Gerard is a > notable exception, but I wonder if now is the time to encourage, but > not demand, real names? Demand real names... all you get is a lot of J. Smith and A. N. Mouse's. Allowing pseudonyms simply makes it clear who is and isn't giving a real name. (besides, a unique pseudonym with a clear identity behind it is often more useful than a single commonly-confusable name...) -- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Campaigning.
by Andrew Walker 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

Yes, that is why Amnesty International is not (or, maybe, was not) a registered charity. I would suggest removing that object if it will lead to problems with the Charities Commission. In fact it may be running our MoA and AoA past the Commission before we incorporate as a limited company to smooth our charity application and have a second check (as well as the legal one) that all is ok. Do we still have to get final board approval of the articles before incorporation? Cheers, Andrew(w) On 12/14/05, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote: > > > The current set of objects (a) to (e) has the following (final) object: > > e) to campaign if necessary against impediments and restrictions to the > above goals, wheresoever enacted, in the United Kingdom or overseas. > > But the Charities Commission guidelines at > > http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc9.asp > > > state: > > 3. However, where the campaign or other activity is of a political > nature (ie seeking to advocate or oppose a change in the law or > public policy), charity trustees must ensure that these activities do > not become the dominant means by which they carry out the purposes of > the charity. These activities must remain incidental or ancillary to > the charity's purposes. > > Does the fact that one of our five objects (and a reference to the > other four) give us explicit campaigning purpose and as hence as at > odds with the above clause? See also the rest of "CC9" > > CC9 - Campaigning and Political Activities by Charities > (Version - September 2004) > > Also, from my scant knowledge of legal wording, words such as "as > above" should be replaced with "(a), (b), (c), and (d)". > > -- > Gordo (aka LoopZilla) > gordon.joly(a)pobox.com > http://pobox.com/~gordo/ > http://www.loopzilla.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediauk-l mailing list > Wikimediauk-l(a)Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >

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Campaigning.
by Gordon Joly 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

The current set of objects (a) to (e) has the following (final) object: e) to campaign if necessary against impediments and restrictions to the above goals, wheresoever enacted, in the United Kingdom or overseas. But the Charities Commission guidelines at http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc9.asp state: 3. However, where the campaign or other activity is of a political nature (ie seeking to advocate or oppose a change in the law or public policy), charity trustees must ensure that these activities do not become the dominant means by which they carry out the purposes of the charity. These activities must remain incidental or ancillary to the charity's purposes. Does the fact that one of our five objects (and a reference to the other four) give us explicit campaigning purpose and as hence as at odds with the above clause? See also the rest of "CC9" CC9 - Campaigning and Political Activities by Charities (Version - September 2004) Also, from my scant knowledge of legal wording, words such as "as above" should be replaced with "(a), (b), (c), and (d)". -- Gordo (aka LoopZilla) gordon.joly(a)pobox.com http://pobox.com/~gordo/ http://www.loopzilla.org/

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Re: Towards incorporation (was Re: Where is James?)
by James D. Forrester 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Gordon Joly wrote: > At 23:48 +0000 11/12/05, Jon wrote: > > > "James D. Forrester" <james(a)jdforrester.org> wrote: > > > > > Jon wrote: > > > > > > > Congratulations (or not, depending on what your thoughts on working > > > > for the Crown Prosecution Service are:) ). > > > > > > *grins* > > > > > > > The MoA, as amended, seems ok. I've posted a couple of minor > > > > amendments to the AoA (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? > > > > title=Wikimedia_UK%2FArticles_of_Association&diff=249634&oldid= > > > > 249629), but otherwise all ok. > > > > > > OK, made those changes. > > > > > > > Are you all right for running this past a charity lawyer before > > > > incorporation, James? > > > > > > Yes, Jimbo gave me the address of one. > > > > Which one is it? ie Can we have the name and address (or website link)? > > > > > > Does Delphine need to release some funds for this? > > > > > > I do not believe that that is necessary. > > > > > > > Also, have you found a solicitor for us to sign in front of? > > > > > > No, not yet. Anyone else have any ideas, or should I just find a > > > local solicitors', and walk in and ask? > > > > Phoning might be better!! Might as well. It'd be easier > > to get a quorum (probably four of us) in London. Do we not have a > > solicitor friend on WP who would do this for free? If not, I can't > > imagine it's too much just to have our signatures witnessed. > > > > > > We need a time and place :) > > > > > > I think the 7th of January could work - a Saturday that's not > > > Christmas Eve, not New Year's Eve, and in more than five days' time. > > > As for a place, I have no problem with it being done near (or, indeed, > > > in ;-)) my house. > > > > Assuming there is a solicitor available on a Saturday. > > Where is your house, James? We'll also need a "registered address"? > > Are we ok with that being your place? > > > > > > Seems we're nearly there as far as incorporation is concerned. Then > > > > we can aim to apply to the Charity Commission early next year, > > > > > > Agreed. Moving on a pace. Brilliant. > > Suggest we move the discussion back onto the mail list?? Certainly. > I will email my solicitor today. OK. I have sent off the current drafts of the MoA and AoA to Diane, but unfortunately she says she won't be able to reply until probably Monday because she is travelling. Depending on whether there are significant problems with our drafts as they stand, this may complicate timings somewhat. Yours sincerely, - -- James D. Forrester Wikimedia : [[W:en:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] E-Mail : james(a)jdforrester.org IM (MSN) : jamesdforrester(a)hotmail.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDn3Pckn3kUxZyJx0RArKbAKCPOWnKGeLe0wR3RmciuBrxSEx5PACfYu/P ufc9Op1lfFAMCkwSf8+s5A8= =77TK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Getting the MoA and AoA reviewed by a charity lawyer
by Jon 13 Dec '05

13 Dec '05

James I think you're doing this, aren't you? Any news yet (either a full reply or news as to when we'll get the result of the lawyer's review)? Kind regards Jon --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

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Re:Tying up the loose ends
by Jon 11 Dec '05

11 Dec '05

James I have proposed two small amendments to the AoA - otherwise the MoA and AoA seem fine. When you say "I will send these off tomorrow evening unless someone has any show-stopping objections", do you mean to a charity lawyer? If so, which one? And has Delphine released funds to pay for this, or will you be short? We also need to agree when we are going to submit forms to incorporate - which includes signing the MoA in front of a solicitor. Have you found a solicitor for this? Again, in which case, which one? And what are you doing for funds? Is the aim to incorporate prior to Christmas, and then submit to the Charity Commission early next year? It seems realistic to me - but we'll need two or three real-life meetings with those who will be the first directors and members to sort out. Kind regards Jon --------------------------------- Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online search now ---------------------------------

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Wikimediauk-l December 2005