I would like to start a Wikipedia in a language called Europanto. I attached the Wiki article that explain it better than I can. Looking foward for hearing from you.
Yours faithfully
Alfredo Carpineti
From Wikipedia.org:
Europanto is a constructed language, a linguistic jest with a hodge-podge vocabulary from many European languages. It was created in 1996 by Diego Marani, a translator for the European Council of Ministers in Brussels. Marani created it in response to the perceived dominance of the English language; it is an emulation of the effect that non-native speakers struggling to learn a language typically add words and phrases from their native language to express their meanings clearly. The single outstanding feature of Europanto is that there are no fixed rules -- merely a set of suggestions. This means that anybody can start to speak Europanto immediately, on the other hand it is the speaker's responsibility to draw on an assumed common vocabulary and grammar between himself and the audience, to make himself understood. Effectively, Europanto as it is used, tends to have a grammar much like English, with words borrowed from various languages and adapted to be easily understood. It is sometimes considered a parody of the international auxiliary language genre, particularly the "Euroclone" variety, namely their preceived tendency to very strongly formalize speech, and impose strict, but arbitrary rules on it. The name Europanto is a portmanteau combination of European and the Greek stem πάντ- (all), and resembles Esperanto. Marani wrote regular newspaper columns about the language and published a novel using it. As of 2005, he no longer actively promotes it. [edit] Sample
Eine terrible menace incumbe over el Kingdom des Angleterra. Poor Regina Elisabeth habe spent todo seine dinero in charmingantes hats und pumpkinose carrosses und maintenow habe keine penny left por acquire de Champagne dat necessite zum celebrate Prince Charles anniversario op el 14 Novembro. (Diego Marani) (Which translates as "A terrible menace has come over the Kingdom of England. Poor Queen Elizabeth has spent all of her money in charming hats and pumpkin carriages, and now is left without a penny to buy the Champagne which is necessary to celebrate Prince Charles' birthday on November 14th.") [edit]
Hay déjà een plan fûr une europanto wikipedia http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/One_supporter#Euro... but ... ;o)
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3413774 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
Hoi,
Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for fun than a serious encyclopedia.
Serv
2006/3/15, europanto europanto@gmail.com:
Hay déjà een plan fûr une europanto wikipedia
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/One_supporter#Euro... but ... ;o)
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3413774 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
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Servien Ilaino wrote:
Hoi,
Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for fun than a serious encyclopedia.
Perhaps a Wikicity?
Ik demande mi wie Wikicity gebraucht, ei kukaan me trora ;)
Serv
2006/3/15, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com:
Servien Ilaino wrote:
Hoi,
Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een
couple de
språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended
for
fun than a serious encyclopedia.
Perhaps a Wikicity?
-- Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Servien Ilaino wrote:
Hoi,
Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for fun than a serious encyclopedia.
Perhaps a Wikicity?
As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search solver.
-- Neil
I agree here, although it would be interesting if somebody wrote a Europanto script.
Mark
On 15/03/06, Neil Harris usenet@tonal.clara.co.uk wrote:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Servien Ilaino wrote:
Hoi,
Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een couple de språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be used more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended for fun than a serious encyclopedia.
Perhaps a Wikicity?
As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search solver.
-- Neil
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Is there even a set vocabulary, or does one simply just take random words from different European languages?
Ich puedo do éso. ¿?Können Tu?
On 3/15/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I agree here, although it would be interesting if somebody wrote a Europanto script.
Mark
On 15/03/06, Neil Harris usenet@tonal.clara.co.uk wrote:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Servien Ilaino wrote:
Hoi,
Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een
couple de
språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be
used
more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended
for
fun than a serious encyclopedia.
Perhaps a Wikicity?
As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search solver.
-- Neil
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- ~Ilya N. http://w3stuff.com/ilya/ (My website; DarkLordFoxx Media) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ilyanep (on Wikipedia) http://www.wheresgeorge.com - Track your money's travels.
Just take random words from different European languages. Most Europanto texts seem to be a sort of Belgian mixed language of mostly French, Dutch, and German, with a fair bit of English and Spanish thrown in for good measure.
I'm sure there are some common threads -- for example, perhaps people use "huis" more than "house", or perhaps the most common definite article is "le". Beyond some very weak trends, I would suspect that all of the stronger trends vary from person to person -- I, for example, tend to use more English although I make a conscious effort to replace English words I've already written with words in other languages. Other people, however, tend not to take such care and end up using Europanto "dialects" which are clearly influenced more by their native language.
Mark
On 15/03/06, Ilya N. ilyanep@gmail.com wrote:
Is there even a set vocabulary, or does one simply just take random words from different European languages?
Ich puedo do éso. ¿?Können Tu?
On 3/15/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I agree here, although it would be interesting if somebody wrote a Europanto script.
Mark
On 15/03/06, Neil Harris usenet@tonal.clara.co.uk wrote:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Servien Ilaino wrote:
Hoi,
Ich ne denk pas that een Europanto Wikipedia ist een bon idee, een
couple de
språker sollen be gebruikt und rien ne sollen pas het förstår.
It's more like a fun language, but as I said some languages will be
used
more than others, it also seems like a project which is more intended
for
fun than a serious encyclopedia.
Perhaps a Wikicity?
As I said when this was last brought up, it should only take the writing of a fairly simple script, and you can munge en: and Wiktionary more or less instantly into over 1,000,000 Europanto articles. Given that, why bother? In my opinion, once you've realized this, the task becomes about as interesting as Sudoku does once you've written a constraint-search solver.
-- Neil
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- ~Ilya N. http://w3stuff.com/ilya/ (My website; DarkLordFoxx Media) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ilyanep (on Wikipedia) http://www.wheresgeorge.com - Track your money's travels. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
It's a little bit more than "just take random words" from different European languages. If a script was enought to generate Europanto sentences, I would have written it a long time ago ( I'm a computer engineer ) The fun is that everyone speaks the way he/she wants/can and the underlying goal, apart from having people understand what you're trying to say ( you can reformulate your sentence as many times as you wish ), is to have good sounding ... er ..."lyrics". ;o)
smh -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3839180 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
Alfredo Carpineti wrote:
I would like to start a Wikipedia in a language called Europanto. I attached the Wiki article that explain it better than I can. Looking foward for hearing from you.
Yours faithfully
Alfredo Carpineti
From Wikipedia.org:
Europanto is a constructed language, a linguistic jest with a hodge-podge vocabulary from many European languages.
[snip]
The single outstanding feature of Europanto is that there are no fixed rules -- merely a set of suggestions. This means that anybody can start to speak Europanto immediately, on the other hand it is the speaker's responsibility to draw on an assumed common vocabulary and grammar between himself and the audience, to make himself understood. Effectively, Europanto as it is used, tends to have a grammar much like English, with words borrowed from various languages and adapted to be easily understood.
[snip]
Since it appears to be possible to generate Europanto by word-by-word translation of English into European languages chosen at random on a word-by-word basis, I'd imagine that it would not be too difficult to generate a Europanto Wikipedia programmatically, using the English Wikipedia as source material, and perhaps Wiktionary as the word-for-word translation dictionary. Throw in link grammars for fair-to-reasonable part-of-speech tagging...
Und voila! Esta Vikipedio Europantoi - L'encyclopédie fria e gratuita, mit 950,000 artikelen!
I leave the details to whoever sets this as an assignment to their computer science class.
-- Neil (IHNJ, IJLS "und voila!") Harris
Hi. it's unlikely that a europeanto wikipedia would be created because its vocab is unstable and it is usually considered a joke language.
On 2/3/06, Alfredo Carpineti alfredo.carpineti@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to start a Wikipedia in a language called Europanto. I attached the Wiki article that explain it better than I can. Looking foward for hearing from you.
Yours faithfully
Alfredo Carpineti
From Wikipedia.org:
Europanto is a constructed language, a linguistic jest with a hodge-podge vocabulary from many European languages. It was created in 1996 by Diego Marani, a translator for the European Council of Ministers in Brussels. Marani created it in response to the perceived dominance of the English language; it is an emulation of the effect that non-native speakers struggling to learn a language typically add words and phrases from their native language to express their meanings clearly. The single outstanding feature of Europanto is that there are no fixed rules -- merely a set of suggestions. This means that anybody can start to speak Europanto immediately, on the other hand it is the speaker's responsibility to draw on an assumed common vocabulary and grammar between himself and the audience, to make himself understood. Effectively, Europanto as it is used, tends to have a grammar much like English, with words borrowed from various languages and adapted to be easily understood. It is sometimes considered a parody of the international auxiliary language genre, particularly the "Euroclone" variety, namely their preceived tendency to very strongly formalize speech, and impose strict, but arbitrary rules on it. The name Europanto is a portmanteau combination of European and the Greek stem πάντ- (all), and resembles Esperanto. Marani wrote regular newspaper columns about the language and published a novel using it. As of 2005, he no longer actively promotes it. [edit] Sample
Eine terrible menace incumbe over el Kingdom des Angleterra. Poor Regina Elisabeth habe spent todo seine dinero in charmingantes hats und pumpkinose carrosses und maintenow habe keine penny left por acquire de Champagne dat necessite zum celebrate Prince Charles anniversario op el 14 Novembro. (Diego Marani) (Which translates as "A terrible menace has come over the Kingdom of England. Poor Queen Elizabeth has spent all of her money in charming hats and pumpkin carriages, and now is left without a penny to buy the Champagne which is necessary to celebrate Prince Charles' birthday on November 14th.") [edit]
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Well, joke language or not, it is a language. Its grammar is a set of all european language grammars. Why doesn't it have a unique grammar ? Because there's no common grammar among all european languages, so why choose one instead of another. You just adapt it to the vocabulary you use locally in your sentence ( for example ). It has cultural and historical background. Anyway, I'm not here to defend Europanto 'till I die. Or you're a language purist and you'll never admit it as a language, or you're not that narrow-minded and you see what's the point of it, or ... you were kind of seduced and even if you're not a linguist, you decide to support that "way of thinking".
By the way I must admit that I won't kill myself if there isn't a europanto wikipedia ;o)
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3839936 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
The point is, Europanto is not a language in the narrow definition of the word.
Can it be used for communication? Yes. But does it have a more or less codified set of rules and words that are used to speak it? No. It's basically linguistic anarchy.
Mark
On 10/04/06, europanto europanto@gmail.com wrote:
Well, joke language or not, it is a language. Its grammar is a set of all european language grammars. Why doesn't it have a unique grammar ? Because there's no common grammar among all european languages, so why choose one instead of another. You just adapt it to the vocabulary you use locally in your sentence ( for example ). It has cultural and historical background. Anyway, I'm not here to defend Europanto 'till I die. Or you're a language purist and you'll never admit it as a language, or you're not that narrow-minded and you see what's the point of it, or ... you were kind of seduced and even if you're not a linguist, you decide to support that "way of thinking".
By the way I must admit that I won't kill myself if there isn't a europanto wikipedia ;o)
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3839936 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Excuse me, I should amend that.
It does have rules, but it doesn't have specific rules governing sentence formation -- there are dozens of equally acceptable "alternatives" for just about every grammatical construction and just about every vocabulary item.
Mark
On 10/04/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
The point is, Europanto is not a language in the narrow definition of the word.
Can it be used for communication? Yes. But does it have a more or less codified set of rules and words that are used to speak it? No. It's basically linguistic anarchy.
Mark
On 10/04/06, europanto europanto@gmail.com wrote:
Well, joke language or not, it is a language. Its grammar is a set of all european language grammars. Why doesn't it have a unique grammar ? Because there's no common grammar among all european languages, so why choose one instead of another. You just adapt it to the vocabulary you use locally in your sentence ( for example ). It has cultural and historical background. Anyway, I'm not here to defend Europanto 'till I die. Or you're a language purist and you'll never admit it as a language, or you're not that narrow-minded and you see what's the point of it, or ... you were kind of seduced and even if you're not a linguist, you decide to support that "way of thinking".
By the way I must admit that I won't kill myself if there isn't a europanto wikipedia ;o)
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3839936 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Yes, and ... do you have to be afraid of that ? ;o) Languages are not dead or frozen things. They all evolve. They also tend to take words from their fellow ones. ( French purists seem to be frightened when they see English words invading "their" language, but they don't see how many French words can be found in English ) And you know, even in a single language, there are dozens of ways to express an idea, with different words and grammar rules. For example ( sorry, in French. I'm not good enough in English for that ) :
-"J'aime les confiseries au chocolat plus que les autres." -"Les sucreries chocolatées sont mes préférées." -"De toutes les friandises, celles qui sont au cacao incarnent mon péché mignon." -"Les bonbons ... miam ! Les bonbons au chocolat ... miam miam !" -"Mes papilles me le disent, bravant mon désarroi Au pays Gourmandise, le chocolat est roi"
( => I prefer chocolate sweets )
smh -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3858151 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
Of all people, I think I understand this concept more than most. Of course languages evolve. It's quite natural.
If it didn't make Wikipedia seem "less respectable", in fact I would advocate writing en.wiki in modern colloquial English.
In fact, some people have been irritated with me because I often justify my own "misspellings" as linguistic evolution rather than mistakes - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=nessecary for example yields 211,000 results (although this is very small when compared to the 1,190,000,000 results for the "correct" spelling, it is nonetheless significant).
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=ackward yields 225,000 (as compared to 46,700,000; I don't tend to spell the word that way myself but I have noticed that many people do).
http://www.google.com/search?q=accidently http://www.google.com/search?q=accomodate http://www.google.com/search?q=amature http://www.google.com/search?q=arguement http://www.google.com/search?q=beleive http://www.google.com/search?q=calender http://www.google.com/search?q=catagory http://www.google.com/search?q=cemetary http://www.google.com/search?q=changable http://www.google.com/search?q=collectable http://www.google.com/search?q=commited http://www.google.com/search?q=concensus http://www.google.com/search?q=momento+-%22un+momento%22+-%22momento+decisiv...
etc.
However, while language change is generally only somewhat chaotic and is governed by some specific rules, and every language is at any given point tied down to a great degree (for example, even though English is constantly changing, you still can't say something like "I not likes me it much the no chocolate"), no language is ever in such a state of linguistic chaos as Europanto is right now and will, in all likelyhood, always be.
And while it's true that there are different ways of saying the same thing in pretty much every language, how many of them would you use in writing? How many of them are natural? I mean, I could certainly say "Ahh, chocolate? Yes, I truly love that food", but could I say it without context? If I used it to _start_ a conversation people would think I was positively insane. There are always limitations on how you can say something in any real language.
In Europanto, there aren't really any. You can fool around with synonyms and word order so much that it is truly not a language anymore.
Mark
On 11/04/06, europanto europanto@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, and ... do you have to be afraid of that ? ;o) Languages are not dead or frozen things. They all evolve. They also tend to take words from their fellow ones. ( French purists seem to be frightened when they see English words invading "their" language, but they don't see how many French words can be found in English ) And you know, even in a single language, there are dozens of ways to express an idea, with different words and grammar rules. For example ( sorry, in French. I'm not good enough in English for that ) :
-"J'aime les confiseries au chocolat plus que les autres." -"Les sucreries chocolatées sont mes préférées." -"De toutes les friandises, celles qui sont au cacao incarnent mon péché mignon." -"Les bonbons ... miam ! Les bonbons au chocolat ... miam miam !" -"Mes papilles me le disent, bravant mon désarroi Au pays Gourmandise, le chocolat est roi"
( => I prefer chocolate sweets )
smh
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3858151 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
If you say "Ich anderen than cioccolato mas bonbons prefer" no one will understand either.
I suppose you've heard of that ? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
Anyway, I'm not the one supposed to be here talking about Europanto. It's not my "rôle".
smh -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3877486 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
me too!
/marqoz
----- Original Message ----- From: "Pawel Dembowski" fallout@lexx.eu.org To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Europanto
If you say "Ich anderen than cioccolato mas bonbons prefer" no one will understand either.
Actually, I did understand it.
-- Ausir
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
rolling auf le pavamiento riendo !
smh -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3878627 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
See mr SMH,
It is indeed a linguistic chaos rather than a true language.
We don't have a Wikipedia for code-switching phenomena such as Spanglish, Franglais, Taglish, and the like; someone did create a test-wp for Portuñol but whether Portunhol is code-switching or a mixed language is debatable.
On the other hand, Europanto is not even code-switching because it often breaks the rules which tend to govern most code-switching.
See http://recycledknowledge.blogspot.com/2005/06/code-switching.html
Sentences which violate the metagrammatical rules of codeswitching make up for less than 1% of corpus text for code-switching in general, but I'm pretty sure the rate in Europanto is much higher.
The main rules are basically these:
1. switches happen only between free morphemes -- the free morpheme rule 2. switches happen only when the word order of both languages is in alignment -- the equivalence rule
This means that you cannot say "J'ai une friend américain" because French puts adjectives after the nouns they modify while English puts them before. In such a case the only natural choices would be to say "J'ai une ami américain" or "J'ai an american friend" (with regards to the "american friend" part; you could obviously have different combinations regarding whether you say "J'ai" or "I have", etc)
In Europanto however, it seems like people ignore these rules entirely.
If Europanto is not a fully-fledged contact language variety such as a pidgin, creole, or mixed language (which it clearly is not because it does not fit the criteria for any of those), and it is not a code-switching phenomena (which it is also clearly not), then what is it?
It seems that the most reasonable way to describe it is a number of related sociolects of various languages which use foreign borrowings very very heavily. You can see the obvious grammatical influence of English in my own Europanto, I'm guessing you can see the grammatical structure of French in yours, or German in that of a native speaker of German.
And the only way to get around the rules of codeswitching is to explain the words from different languages as borrowed words into the native language, since borrowings are generally governed by the grammatical rules of the language which is absorbing them.
So on this basis I would oppose a Europanto Wikipedia -- we already have several Wikipedias in "Europanto". en.wiki is in English, which is basically English Europanto with less foreign words; fr.wiki is in French, which is basically French Europanto with less foreign words; it.wiki is in Italian, which is basically Italian Europanto with less foreign words; etc.
Mark
On 12/04/06, Marek Najmajer marqoz@wp.pl wrote:
me too!
/marqoz
----- Original Message ----- From: "Pawel Dembowski" fallout@lexx.eu.org To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Europanto
If you say "Ich anderen than cioccolato mas bonbons prefer" no one will understand either.
Actually, I did understand it.
-- Ausir
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Don't you see that it is precisely one of the point that pleases europantists : no "rules" and good sounding sentences. I would say : "Tengo een amerikanische friend" or "An amigo américain hebe Ich". Worse than unpure code-switching : sometimes, you even transform or invent words ( you qualified that "heavy". ) I particularly like to use verb+"ando". For example : spielando ( playing ). And ... guess what "avioplano" stands for in one of Diego Marani's text ?
Anyway, as I said before, I won't kill myself if there's no Europanto Wikipedia. I didn't ask for one and that will probably save me a lot of time.
Well, that will be my last words here, I think.
Bye
Ms smh
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3902686 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
Exactly. And no rules means it's not a real language.
Mark
On 13/04/06, europanto europanto@gmail.com wrote:
Don't you see that it is precisely one of the point that pleases europantists : no "rules" and good sounding sentences. I would say : "Tengo een amerikanische friend" or "An amigo américain hebe Ich". Worse than unpure code-switching : sometimes, you even transform or invent words ( you qualified that "heavy". ) I particularly like to use verb+"ando". For example : spielando ( playing ). And ... guess what "avioplano" stands for in one of Diego Marani's text ?
Anyway, as I said before, I won't kill myself if there's no Europanto Wikipedia. I didn't ask for one and that will probably save me a lot of time.
Well, that will be my last words here, I think.
Bye
Ms smh
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Europanto-t1056989.html#a3902686 Sent from the Wikipedia General forum at Nabble.com.
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Hi "dear" Mark, "U" talk, but you don't listen, it seems so. How many languages do you speak ? => ????? I suppose you have a cell phone, ... sms and so ? xdr ... Sms language is ... er ... "smarter" than Europanto will never be, no ? Worse than ... slang ? In the end I wonder : r u a "vieux réac'" ?
... Regards,
Lapin
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Also, you sort of cheated with your examples.
They all have the same intent, and the same underlying meaning, but their actual meaning is quite different.
To say "Les bonbons... miam! Les bonbons au chocolat... miam miam!" or "Mes papilles me le disent, bravant mon desarroi au pays Gourmandise, le chocolat est roi" do not TRULY mean the same thing as "J'aime les confiseries au chocolat plus que les autres."
Mark
Haha. I love that term -- linguistic anarchy :D
On 4/10/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
The point is, Europanto is not a language in the narrow definition of the word.
Can it be used for communication? Yes. But does it have a more or less codified set of rules and words that are used to speak it? No. It's basically linguistic anarchy.
Mark
On 10/04/06, europanto europanto@gmail.com wrote:
Well, joke language or not, it is a language. Its grammar is a set of
all
european language grammars. Why doesn't it have a unique grammar ? Because there's no common grammar among all european languages, so why choose one instead of another. You just adapt it to the vocabulary you use locally
in
your sentence ( for example ). It has cultural and historical background. Anyway, I'm not here to defend Europanto 'till I die. Or you're a language purist and you'll never admit it as a language, or you're not that narrow-minded and you see what's the point of it, or ... you were kind of seduced and even if you're not a linguist, you decide to support that "way of thinking".
By the way I must admit that I won't kill myself if there isn't a
europanto
wikipedia ;o)
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