So, it seems (if I interpret Jimbo's mail on wikitech and the discussion
here correctly) that most of us would like *some kind* of category
scheme in wikipedia. I do, too! But, we seem to differ on the details
So far, I saw three concepts:
1. Simple categories like "Person", "Event", etc.; about a dozen total.
2. Categories and subcategories, like
"Science/Biology/Biochemistry/Proteomics", which can be "scaled down" to
#1 as well ("Humankind/Person" or something)
3. Complex object structures with machine-readable meta-knowledge
encoded into the articles, which would allow for quite complex
queries/summaries, like "biologists born after 1860".
1. Easy to edit (the wiki way!)
2. Still easy to edit, but making wikipedia browseable by category,
fine-tune Recent Changes, etc.
3. Strong improvement in search functions, meta-knowledge available for
1. Not much of a help...
2. We'd need to agree on a category scheme, and maintenance might get a
3. Quite complex to edit (e.g., "<category type='person'
occupation='biologist' birth_month='5' birth_day='24' birth_year='1874'
For a wikipedia I'd have to write myself, I'd choose #3, but with
respect to the wiki way, #2 seems more likely to achieve consensus (if
there is such a thing;-)
> From: Tim Starling
> I did a quick hack which allows sysops to ban logged-in users. This
> discussed on wikien-l long, long ago, and was widely agreed to be a
> idea (well, not that widely, but Jimbo was particularly keen).
> just type the username into the ban IP box. I changed a few messages
> indicate that you could do it.
I assume that sysops can be banned through this interface as well. The
hack sounds pretty ugly. Banning by username should be done by banning
through the login (i.e. the cookies) not by checking IP.
Have these changes been checked in?
This is not something that should go live without discussion on the main
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 20:49:17 +0100
> From: Kurt Jansson <jansson(a)gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] IBM analyzing Wikipedia page histories
> To: wikipedia-l(a)wikipedia.org
> Message-ID: <3F4FAE3D.2050103(a)gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> Fernanda Viegas wrote:
> > 3. Another poster asked about our diff method: I think the main
> > difference between ours and yours is that ours is operating at a finer
> > granularity (roughly at the sentence level, rather than the paragraph
> > level). We'd be happy to talk in more detail, if you want!
> I'd love to see MediaWiki use a smarter diff function, but I have no
> programing skills (well, TurboPascal, but that's long ago ...). Maybe
> one of our not-so-busy developers (are there any?) could talk with you
> about this.
> > 4. We have been finding some fascinating patterns about the different
> > ways in which people collaborate in Wikipedia. We are currently writing
> > a paper about this and would be happy to share it with the community
> > after we are done.
Can you tell me what "diff" means?
[Wikipedia-l] Re:Culte, cult, secte, sect
Brion Vibber brion at pobox.com
Sun Aug 31 02:50:32 UTC 2003
>It usually refer to groups which practice some of the
>following, mental manipulation, power centralization
>in the hands of a guru or a small group of people,
>with a pyramidal organisation,
[[There is no Cabal]] ...
> with money exactions,
>and a doctrine that can not be disputed.
[[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view]] !
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
LOL, yes !!!
* rather new (he, less than 3 years)
* rather small number of members (eh, less than 10 000
* dangerous for their members (eh, wikipediholism)
* power in hands of one : Jimbo, or a small group : eh
WITHOUT NOTICING, I BECAME MEMBER OF A "SECTE" !!!!!!
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:59:43 -0300
> From: sgilbert(a)nbnet.nb.ca
> Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:Culte, cult, secte, sect
> To: wikipedia-l(a)Wikipedia.org
> Message-ID: <3F5091AF.9755.14672EC7@localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Matt M. (that's what the header says, but I think it
> may have been
> Anthere) wrote:
> > That is a tricky word, not to mistranslate
> > unintentionnally :-)
of course that is me :-) I wonder how you recognised
my unmistakable english :-)
> It's a tricky word to use, too. One person's "cult"
> is another's
> religion. Many conservative Christians consider the
> Church of
> Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ("Mormonism") a
> cult, but I doubt
> such a label would stand in the state of Utah.
> Some people argue that a cult is simply a newer
> religion that hasn't
> yet established itself. The word "sect" is more
> neutral; the term
> "new religious movement" is sometimes used in
> research. In most cases, when we call a group a
> "cult" in
> Wikipedia we should probably attribute it.
> Stephen G.
That was one of the contentious points in july, on the
article secte (your cult).
the etymological origin of secte meant it was a
division of a religion, or one part of a religion
following a specific guru . Quite neutral and non
We gave another definition which is a religious
extremist group, not very well integrated by social
The more modern definition we finally settled on is
highly disparaging. It does not limit itself to
religious groups anymore, and is about a group which
is dangerous for its members.
It usually refer to groups which practice some of the
following, mental manipulation, power centralization
in the hands of a guru or a small group of people,
with a pyramidal organisation, with money exactions,
and a doctrine that can not be disputed.
Note that we could say catholic religion to be there,
so additional points usually come along to avoid this
It often rather refer to small groups in terms of
members, new organisations and often organisations not
very well integrated in a society.
Along those definitions, a french public commission
established a list of organisations listed as sects.
The issue is highly contentious on Wikipedia because
anti-sects wanted the list to appear on the secte
article, as THE list of sectes. This is only a french
definition and judgement of what a sect is.
At the same time, some wanted some religions not cited
in the report to appear as well (such a the catholic
religion, with the Pape as its guru)
And some wanted some religious to be removed from the
After lengthy discussion, there is a list appearing in
the sect article, under the title "groups usually
considered as sect", with a disclaimer below, stating
who established this list.
I am very unhappy with this list, because it is
limited to the french public position and the fact it
is written "usually". Are listed secte (with the above
definition), some organisations that are in other
places in the worlds just regular religions.
Now, it is easy in an article, to discuss whether a
group should be said a secte or not, and to attribute
position, but when in a list, this is much tougher :-)
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
Ray Saintonge asked if the reason that I use dictation was I have some
kind of disability. Someone suggested I may be sightless.. Dictation
programs make so many mistakes that you need keen eyesight. If you tried
to dictate with your monitor turned off you would not know what you are
doing and you would have a mess.
I have a cousin who is about four months older than I am and a couple of
years ago she went to an eye doctor for an examination. He found that she
had cataracts and operated on both eyes immediately. It all worked out
My eyesight is about 20/20. I have slight astigmatism and limited
accommodation. so that I cannot focus on things close up. I sit with my
face about 3 ft. in front of the monitor and am not wearing glasses.
Occasionally I use a magnifier. It is hard for me to see periods.
I thought that this was not the place to write about anemia, blood tests,
etc. but with further thought I decided that readers should know about
these things. All too often doctors are in a hurry to get to the next
patient so you don't get the tests and treatment you should have. You
should insist that the doctor be thorough and not skip the things that
should have his attention now instead of putting it off until it is too
I noticed a tiny growth on the edge of my ear. The doctor prescribed
Efudex, a very expensive cream. I read the instruction sheet that came
with it and refused to use it.
The doctor removed the growth surgically, a very minor operation, and a
biopsy showed it to be a squamous cell carcinoma. It is gone, cured. Now
there seems to be one starting on the other ear.
Efudex works on the DNA to inhibit the growth of cancer cells. You have
to keep applying the cream for a month or more and the area is sore all
the time.. You don't know when all of the cancer cells are killed.
I see no reason why I should go without necessities so that the CEO of
some big pharmaceutical company can have four luxury homes, entertain
lavishly, and have a $15 million art collection because he managed to
maneuver himself into a position of
power without ever doing anything to create or produce the products,.
A dictator is someone with absolute power. My computer often does not do
what I order it to do so I guess that I am not a dictator. Perhaps we
should have a new war, dictater for a person who speaks words that are to
be copied. I don't find dictater in the dictionary.
How can the people who write the Winkipedia articles live? They must have
some source of income; perhaps they are retired and have retirement or
investment income, are employed and do this in their spare time.
How do you go about writing an article for the Encyclopedia? What type
font and size of type do you choose? What about formatting? What computer
program can you use?
. There is quite a lot of information about dropping the atom bomb on
Japan but I didn't see anything about the intelligence that followed. How
did they find out about the effect of a bomb? Years ago a man who lived
here told me that one day he was sent out on a mission. As they approach
the target he went back and strapped himself in. When the bomb bay doors
opened he leaned out and aimed his camera straight down at the clouds
below. All he could see was clouds. When the command came he snapped the
shatter. The few days later an officer asked him if he would like to see
some pictures and showed have pictures of what the atom bomb had done. He
told him, "You took those pictures"..
I don't know that this story belongs in the Encyclopedia.
Merritt L. Perkins
>Stevertigo: Recently someone Menchi (?) discussed with Brion about making
>separate wikis for Simple Chinese and Traditional Chinese...
No, I did not suggest to Brion or anyone the separation of Simplified and
Traditional Chinese versions. I don't know who said it. As far as I know,
all active and regular contributors there are fine with the co-existence of
the two versions.
What we /have/ been saying is to implement an automatic
Traditional<->Simplified conversion, since the phrasing is completely
identical (the wording occasionally isn't. Occasionally.)
Anyway, shouldn't this be at Intlwiki-L.?
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
I'm declaring another cease fire -- the last one worked out pretty
well, and what the hell.
LOTS of people have written me asking me to ban EofT. The reasons
should be readily apparent. No one has written me asking me to ban
RK, but LOTS of people are of the opinion that he needs to be a LOT
nicer to people, all around.
What I'd like to do is call a ceasefire on this one for a week or so,
starting now. (I'll be posting this on Wikipedia as well, on my user
page, on RK's user page, and on EofT's user page.)
> "Cult" is more often used to refer to deviant religious groups,
> heretics with significant doctrinal differences. Outsiders sometimes
> tend to believe, without a stitch of evidence that the cultists do weird
> things like drinking blood or engaging in orgies.
> I haven't researched the matter, but my impression is that in French
> "culte" is far more socially acceptable.
I would use the French "secte" to translate "cult" in the sense of
"antisocial cult." When Heaven's Gate, the Solar Temple, etc., are mentioned
in the French-language media, or when they ask "Is such-and-such a little
religious group a cult or not?" the word they use is "secte."
In English, "sect" means a denomination of a religion; I would probably
translate it as "dénomination" or something similar. ("Northern Conservative
Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reform Baptist?")
"Culte" in French means worship, as in "heures de culte" (hours of
prayer/worship/mass at a church). English sometimes uses "cult" for this, as
in "the cult of the goddess Athene" in ancient Greece, meaning the worship
of Her, but it's rarer and, in view of the pejorative meaning of cult, seems
to be dwindling and increasingly able to be misunderstood. (I would probably
not want to refer the "the cult of the Goddess" within earshot of any
Pagan - and I am one!) "Worship" is probably the best translation of