Wikipedia-l June 2006

wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

74 participants
43 discussions

comment on wikipedia
by Optim 15 Aug '24

15 Aug '24

I was describing to someone how Wikipedia works: "anyone can edit" etc. He answered with this argument: "Wikipedia is the triumph of the average person! of the man in the street!)" (average meaning: not good, not bad, just OK) I asked "why?" His explanation: "Great brilliant works are built by individuals. Groups of people can only create average works. If someone writes something good in the wiki, other average persons will intervene with his/her work and turn it into an average work. If someone writes something bad in the wiki, the others will again turn it into something of average value. with your system (meaning: Wikipedia's system) you can be sure that you will never create something too bad but also never something too good. You can create only average articles." The idea behind his argument was that Wikipedia will be a good resource as long as it attracts good cotnributors. but it will soon become an average site/encyclopaedia because it allows anyone to join the project and edit, and most people are just average persons and not brilliant writers. Do you think it's true? and how can we answer this argument? --Optim __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] multi-headed VANDALS
by Daniel Mayer 18 Jan '23

18 Jan '23

On Sunday 28 July 2002 03:00 am, The Cunctator wrote: > What are the articles this person has been changing? For 66.108.155.126: 20:08 Jul 27, 2002 Computer 20:07 Jul 27, 2002 Exploit 20:07 Jul 27, 2002 AOL 20:05 Jul 27, 2002 Hacker 20:05 Jul 27, 2002 Leet 20:03 Jul 27, 2002 Root 20:02 Jul 27, 2002 Hacker 19:59 Jul 27, 2002 Hacker 19:58 Jul 27, 2002 Hacker 19:54 Jul 27, 2002 Principle of least astonishment 19:54 Jul 27, 2002 Hacker 19:52 Jul 27, 2002 Trance music 19:51 Jul 27, 2002 Trance music For 208.24.115.6: 20:20 Jul 27, 2002 Hacker For 141.157.232.26: 20:19 Jul 27, 2002 Hacker Most of these were complete replacements with discoherent statements. Such as "TAP IS THE ABSOLUTE DEFINITION OF THE NOUN HACKER" for Hacker. For the specifics follow http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Special:Ipblocklist and look at the contribs. --mav

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Language policy agreement in the Norwegian Wikipedia community
by Bjarte Sørensen 01 Apr '12

01 Apr '12

Dear all, Most of you would be aware of some of the discussions that have occurred around Wikipedia in the Norwegian languages. Since the last round of discussions on this list, there has been a lot of internal debate, as well as what seems to be a fairly widely accepted agreement following voting. This e-mail intends to, after a brief recap on Norwegian language and wikipedia issues, take those interested through the latest development and will stake out the road ahead. It is also intended to inform the international community about the current agreement on no.wikipedia, so as to prevent misunderstandings in the future. Finally, we will mention an unfortunate reaction to the vote by a small number of users at the Norwegian Bokmål/Riksmål (no:) wikipedia who want to disregard the result of the voting and are planning to create a _third_ Norwegian wikipedia with the sole mission of mixing the contents of the two current Norwegian versions. == A short language history of Norway == Spoken Norwegian ("norsk") (ISO 639-2 alpha-2 code "no") is in a fairly unique situation compared to most other languages of the world in that it has two widely accepted written standards, Bokmål (ISO 639-2 alpha-2 code "nb") and Nynorsk (ISO 639-2 alpha-2 code "nn"). By national legislation they are both regarded as official written forms of Norwegian. In addition, many people still make a distinction between Bokmål and its precursor which still is in use, Riksmål. Briefly speaking, Bokmål and Riksmål are descendants of the Danish written language. Until the 1800s, Danish was the only widely used written language in Norway as a result of four centuries of union with Denmark. With increasing independence came a wish to norwegianise the Danish standard, with Knud Knudsen at the forefront for changing parts of the vocabulary and orthographics. Thus, Riksmål, and later Bokmål, resulted. These forms together are today probably used by about 90% of Norway's population, or somewhere around 3,500,000 people. Parallel to this development, a new written standard was created by Ivar Aasen. He travelled extensively throughout Norway, and based his new language, landsmål, on the grammar and vocabulary of dialect samples from around the country. This was later renamed Nynorsk. Modern Nynorsk differs significantly from modern Bokmål, and may be linguistically looked upon as as different (or as similar if you like) as Swedish is to Danish. For English or Dutch/German speakers, the differences may be likened to those between (Lowland) Scots and English or Low German and Dutch. Today it is estimated that about 500,000-600,000 people have Nynorsk as their first written language. More information about the Norwegian language history can be found in English, German, French, Spanish or Portuguese on the website of the Norwegian Language Council: http://www.sprakrad.no/templates/Page.aspx?id=653 == A short history of Wikipedia in Norwegian == The first Norwegian wikipedia started 26 November 2001 on the subdomain no.wikipedia.org. As most wikipedias, its contributor and article count started really picking up around the end of 2003. At the time, it accepted all written standards of Norwegian, although the amount of Nynorsk was minimal. There were already several debates about the feasibilty and appropriateness of keeping the two languages united on one Wikipedia. On 31 July 2004 a Wikipedia for Nynorsk was created. The creation of nn:, however, split the community at no: wikipedia. Many felt that given that Nynorsk now had its own wikipedia, no: should become a Bokmål/Riksmål Wikipedia only. Others disapproved and claimed that there was no need to change and that it should continue its language policy of accepting all and keep its interwiki link name of "Norsk". Nynorsk Wikipedia soon proved a success, as it within the next few months gathered several people who had felt uncomfortable in the (mainly) Bokmål environment at no:. The name displayed in interwiki links became "Norsk (nynorsk)" (languages are not spelt with upper case in Norwegian). To date it continues to be one of the fastest growing wikipedias, with a steady article increase, now at over 6000 articles and >50 editors with more than 10 edits since arrival. == Votes == The issue of no:'s language policy has come up time and again, and a vote was held in March ([[:no:Wikipedia:Målform]]) as to which policy to adapt. Independent of the method of the tally (whether or not to include new contributors etc.) there was a majority for switching to a Bokmål/Riksmål only language policy (50% for Bokmål/Riksmål, 43.2% for Bokmål/Riksmål/Nynorsk/Høgnorsk, and 6.8% for the official variants Bokmål/Nynorsk only). Following this result, there is now going to be a vote on which interwiki link name will most appropriately reflect the current language policy of no:. The result of this vote will most likely be either "Norsk (bokmål)" or "Norsk (bokmål/riksmål)". Understandably, there has also been a debate as to whether the subdomain should change from "no" to "nb", as this is the correct representation of Bokmål according to ISO 639-2. However, there is some resentment towards such a move and currently a general acceptance in letting the Bokmål wikipedia stay at "no". The alternative some have suggested is a server-side redirect from "no" to "nb", in the same way that "nb" today is a server-side redirect to the equivalent page on "no". == Summary of the problem == Unfortunately, a small group of users (who all write Bokmål/Riksmål) are ignoring the results from the vote, and are claiming they want to re-establish a wikipedia for all written standards of Norwegian. They claim they have been in touch with people centrally in Wikimedia (developers? stewards?) and that they have so far received positive comments. With this email, we would like to state the fact that there have been no official decisions about creating a third Norwegian wikipedia containing both Bokmål and Nynorsk, it is merely an unofficial initiative from a small group of users which started a sign-on list at [[:no:Bruker:Norsk_Wikipedia]]. A spontaneous list with signatures against this activity was immediately created at [[:no:Wikipedia-diskusjon:Fellesnorsk]]. The process of creating a third Norwegian wikipedia has not gone through a voting process in any of the two existing Norwegian wikipedias (no: and nn:) and can not be considered as a decision by the Norwegian Wikipedia community. We believe the creation of a third wikipedia under the Wikimedia foundation would have a serious and unfortunate impact on the existing wikipedias in Norwegian, no: and nn:, and would undermine Wikipedia's reputation in Norway. This being said, we are all for extensive co- operation between the four Scandinavian language wikipedias (including Swedish and Danish), as evident by the recent creation of [[:meta:Skanwiki]], the Scandinavian meta-pages, and the use of featured articles from neighbour wikipedias. == Conclusion == Hopefully, this letter will help people better understand the complicated language situation of the Norwegian Wikipedia community, so as to give a background on which discussion can take place on this list in the future, such as the inevitable debate following a possible request for a re-establishment of the common (and third!) Norwegian Wikipedia. >From the community of no.wikipedia.org and nn.wikipedia.org, Bjarte Sørensen [[:meta:User:BjarteSorensen]] (Administrator/bureaucrat on nn:) Lars Alvik [[:no:User:Profoss]] (Administrator/bureaucrat on no:) Øyvind A. Holm [[:no:User:Sunny256]] (Administrator on no:) Onar Vikingstad [[:no:User:Vikingstad]] (Administrator on no:) Jon Harald Søby [[:no:User:Jhs]] (Administrator on no:) Chris Nyborg [[:no:User:Cnyborg]] (Administrator on no:) Guttorm Flatabø [[:no:User:Dittaeva]] (Administrator on nn:) Gunleiv Hadland [[:meta:User:Gunnernett]] (Administrator on nn:) Jarle Fagerheim [[:nn:User:Jarle]] (Administrator on nn:) Øyvind Jo Heimdal Eik [[:en:User:Pladask]] (Administrator on nn: and no:) Kristian André Gallis [[:nn:User:Kristaga]] Vegard Wærp [[:no:User:Vegardw]] Nina Aldin Thune [[:no:User:Nina]] Thor-Rune Hansen [[:no:User:ThorRune]] Claes Tande [[:no:User:Ctande]] Arnt-Erik Krokaa [[:no:User:AEK]] Rune Sattler [[:no:User:Shauni]]

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Where are the decision makers?
by Jacky PB 05 Jul '06

05 Jul '06

Hello everybody, It's been now some time we are providing actual proof in support of a petition to close the Moldovan wikipedia. However, it is obvious that something is wrong, because every single message of ours is simply buried under sequences of messages from Mark Williamson. Moreover: - Our messages are sequences of facts that can be verified by anybody. Proof, in the scientific sense. - The edits of Mark have the sole goal of discreditating the opposed camp. No proof, just "their oppinion is biased, because they have a hidden agenda". The very definition of FUD. Under these conditions, nobody says nothing! We are left here to exchange messages in an uncontrolled fashion, while the matter is really important. Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody Yours, [[:en:Dpotop]], [[:ro:Dpotop]] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Moldovan wikipedia, again
by Jacky PB 04 Jul '06

04 Jul '06

Hello everybody, Remember, you decided to leave the Moldovan wikipedia freezed, but not completely deleted. Now, its unique contributor [[:en:User:Node_ue]], is back (probably on school holiday), with his anti-Romanian edits. I cite from [[:mo:Wikipedia_talk:Administrator]]: <i> Please don't write in Romanian here, write Moldovan. Every time you write Romanian on the Moldovan wikipedia, god kills a kitten. </i> No to mention that he initiated a vote to become again sysop, then tried to falsify the results (because they were not favourable). The current version of the page [[:mo:Wikipedia:Administrator]] is that rigged by Node_ue, but take a look at the history on the vote page [http://mo.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator&oldid=115…], which shows the true result of the vote according to the original rules set by Node_ue. After this, he managed to invite the entire Russian wikipedia to take position on a language they know nothing about here: [[:meta:Proposals for closing projects]]. Take a look at his post here [[:ru:ÐÐ¸ÐºÐ¸Ð¿ÐµÐ´Ð¸Ñ:Ð¤Ð¾ÑÑÐ¼/ÐÐ¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑÐ¸#Moldovan]], and notice the blatant lie concerning the cyrillic script (whereas the problem is in fact the absence of Moldovan editors). In the meantime, Node_ue is copying articles from ro.wiki to mo.wiki and pretends they are in a different language. It must be noted that he is the only one on the entire wikipedia (all wikipedias took together) to pretend speaking a "Moldovan language" different from the Romanian one. Just take a look at [[:en:Category:User mo]], [[:mo:Category:User mo]], [[:ro:Category:User mo]], [[:ru:Category:User mo]]. Moreover he himself places himself at level mo-2. I can assure you this guy isn't able to write correct text in Moldovan. Any native Moldovan can tell you the same (in fact, this is why he keeps copying articles from ro.wiki). While no native Moldovan editor exists, the Moldovan wikipedia will continue to be a political statement that exacerbates nationalisms from Romania, Russia, and Moldova itself, and a playground for clever and stupid trolls. It should be closed until a native Moldovan editor requires its re-opening and assumes admin rights. This argument has already been put forward here [[:meta:Proposals for closing projects#What decision makers need to know]]. Yours sincerely, [[:en:User:Dpotop]], [[:ro:User:Dpotop]] --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Require confirmed email address to upload images?
by Nicholas Moreau 01 Jul '06

01 Jul '06

Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:06:22 -0700 From: Stan Shebs Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] To: wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org Message-ID: <44A2EF4E.1000202(a)apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote: > >* Many people won't be uploading images if it requires email registration > > Please please please let it be so! After having to mark several thousand bad uploads for deletion, and realizing it was just a tiny percentage of the total problem, I'd agree to anything that would stop the deluge of sh!t. I think it's hard for people who haven't worked on image cleanup to realize how much grunt work is created by the hundreds and sometimes thousands of bad uploads that accumulate each and every day. Stan Agreed. Tried it out again, for the first time in months, and it's amazing how many junk images are uploaded. Nick/Zanimum --------------------------------- Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail.

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Require confirmed email address to upload images?
by Kat Walsh 01 Jul '06

01 Jul '06

One of the big problems with checking and tagging images is that we often cannot contact the uploaders -- they register an account, maybe only to upload, and then they never log in again, never check their talk page, didn't provide an email address, and you have no way to contact them. A lot of images are deleted because we simply have no way to contact the uploader who didn't provide a source or a license to ask them what the correct information is. I think it would be a big step forward to require a confirmed email address in order to upload images. It's a not a large hurdle for contributors, no minimum time or edit count -- just that we must be able to contact you, and then if we cannot, we're sure it's not just because you haven't been checking your talk page. This would also make it far easier for reusers of our media to contact the contributors to confirm! Wikimedia gets many requests to reprint photos and often we have to say that we simply do not know how to get in touch with the copyright holder -- someone who last edited a year ago is not likely to check a talk page. I hear it said that this would be an easy feature to implement. Suggestions/thoughts/objections? -Kat -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mindspillage | G/AIM:LucidWaking mindspillage or mind|wandering on irc.freenode.net | email for phone The good traveller has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving -- Lao-Tzu Wikia: creating communities - http://www.wikia.com

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Require confirmed email address to upload images?
by daniwo59＠aol.com 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

In a message dated 6/28/2006 10:13:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marudubshinki(a)gmail.com writes: I don't think this is as clear cut as you think it is. In the case of requiring users to register to start articles, and we had solid evidence that our openess was actively harmful- pace Siegenthaler. I've seen no reason to believe that our current level of openness w/r/t images is actively harmful, and not merely a nuisance on the level of vandalism by IPs. Do you not consider the amount of images deleted because they are potentially copyright violations harmful? Danny

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] import babel templates, how-to
by Platonides 29 Jun '06

29 Jun '06

Special:Export is now supposed to work even with history from wikipedias (wiktionaryZ may be apart), but you will need an 'special right' to be able to import. "Sabine Cretella" wrote: >Hi Berto, >yes, I already thought about it. I need all the templates downloaded in >a file (did/do not have time right now to do it, but I wanted to do the >same) - then I can easily use the bot to upload them. >Ciao, Sabine >Berto schrieb: >> Hi! >> >> is there anyway to import babel templates? (say from wiktionaryZ, with >> the >> level-5 convention, too). They do not need any translation at all, so it >> looks pretty stupid to do it manually. >> >> Bèrto

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Use of images (again)
by Giuseppe DAngelo 29 Jun '06

29 Jun '06

Someone from it.wiki recently asked me where I got a picture of a Beatles single sleeve that I used on scn.wiki. I said I got if from en.wiki. He then responded that in that case it is not covered by Italian law because Italy does not have the fair use provisions found in the USA. He suggested I delete the image from scn.wiki. I was a bit dumbfounded by this response. For instance: 1. What does Italian law have to do with the Sicilian wikipedia? 2. Why is USA law necesarily valid for the whole of the English language wikipedia? 3. In any event, aren't the servers all in the USA? So what's good for one wiki is surely good for another. He then told me that the Sicilian wikipedia sat on the Italian servers. Once again I was equally dumbfounded, why? since when? under whose direction? Remember that 90% of the contributions to scn.wiki arrive from sources outside of Italy. So - can I or can't I have this particular picture of a Beatles single sleeve, considering that it is ok to put up on en.wiki? pippu d'a Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com

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Wikipedia-l June 2006