Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html and http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html), asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest independent nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers of Tetum (see: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national language internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe d'Angelo said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There is also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin, where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of all, you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html and http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html), asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest independent nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers of Tetum (see: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national language internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe d'Angelo said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There is also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin, where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of all, you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded as a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of this project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the easy way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles, in order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html and http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html), asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
independent
nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers of Tetum (see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
language
internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
d'Angelo
said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
is
also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin, where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
all,
you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
That's not what I asked.
It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded as a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of this project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the easy way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles, in order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html and http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html), asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
independent
nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers of Tetum (see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
language
internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
d'Angelo
said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
is
also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin, where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
all,
you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
I understand you point of view, Mark.
I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so. Does this seem fair to you?
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:50 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
That's not what I asked.
It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
as
a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
this
project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
easy
way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
in
order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
and
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
independent
nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
native-speakers
of Tetum (see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
a
Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
can
inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
up
or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
can
be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
language
internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
d'Angelo
said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
basic
infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
is
also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
Darwin,
where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
of
getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
in
Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
all,
you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Yes, thanks.
Mark
On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
I understand you point of view, Mark.
I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so. Does this seem fair to you?
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:50 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
That's not what I asked.
It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
as
a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
this
project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
easy
way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
in
order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
and
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
independent
nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
native-speakers
of Tetum (see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
a
Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
can
inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
up
or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
can
be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
language
internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
d'Angelo
said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
basic
infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
is
also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
Darwin,
where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
of
getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
in
Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
all,
you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches, etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Sincerely, Silas Snider
Mark Williamson wrote:
Yes, thanks.
Mark
On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
I understand you point of view, Mark.
I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so. Does this seem fair to you?
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:50 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
That's not what I asked.
It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
as
a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
this
project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
easy
way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
in
order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
and
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
independent
nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
native-speakers
of Tetum (see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
a
Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
can
inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
up
or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
can
be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
language
internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
d'Angelo
said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
basic
infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
is
also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
Darwin,
where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
of
getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
in
Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
all,
you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hoi, For your information, formally Mark does not have authority. There are few people who are seen to be authorortive. He is however one of the people who knows a lot about what languages are. In this case the point he made was great. I was accepted as such.
Now, when you complain about Mark, I want to point out two things; * What is your authority on this subject that you challenge him? * You may have noticed that Mark has been really good in not going overboard lately.
Most often I welcome the points that Mark makes. Certainly when he makes his point once they are the best that can be heard.
As to the Moldovan fracas, it has definetly not been the worst project that we have seen. Some projects were / are much worse. They are just not that "in the public eye".
Thanks, GerardM
On 3/9/06, Silas Snider swsnider@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches, etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be thearbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Sincerely, Silas Snider
Mark Williamson wrote:
Yes, thanks.
Mark
On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
I understand you point of view, Mark.
I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so. Does this seem fair to you?
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:50 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
That's not what I asked.
It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
as
a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
this
project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
easy
way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
in
order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
and
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
independent
nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
native-speakers
of Tetum (see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
Subsequently, I created a test page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to Tetum.
Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
a
Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
can
inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
up
or not.
I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
can
be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
language
internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
d'Angelo
said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
basic
infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
is
also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
Darwin,
where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
of
getting the message through to them."
I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
in
Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
all,
you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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GerardM wrote:
Hoi, For your information, formally Mark does not have authority. There are few people who are seen to be authorortive. He is however one of the people who knows a lot about what languages are. In this case the point he made was great. I was accepted as such.
Now, when you complain about Mark, I want to point out two things;
- What is your authority on this subject that you challenge him?
I was not trying to assert my own authority (of which I have none). Rather, I was reading the thread and I saw Mark and Manuel having an exchange, with Manuel ending up backing down, and Mark accepting his proposal as though Mark was the final decision maker. Since I may at some point be interested in starting a new language wikipedia (though not for another year at least), I was troubled by the fact that no one else on the list was at all active in the discussion.
- You may have noticed that Mark has been really good in not going
overboard lately.
Really? I would point you to the recent Moldovan wikipedia discussion as disproof. While not 'overboard' for all meanings of the term, it would have been nice to see a little more restraint in Mark's messages (although definitely more restraint could have been showed by the other participants)
Most often I welcome the points that Mark makes. Certainly when he makes his point once they are the best that can be heard.
As to the Moldovan fracas, it has definetly not been the worst project that we have seen. Some projects were / are much worse. They are just not that "in the public eye".
Thanks, GerardM
On 3/9/06, Silas Snider swsnider@gmail.com wrote: Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches, etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be thearbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Sincerely, Silas Snider
Mark Williamson wrote:
Yes, thanks.
Mark
On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
I understand you point of view, Mark.
I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so. Does this seem fair to you?
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:50 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
That's not what I asked.
It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
as
a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
this
project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
easy
way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
in
order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote: > Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group >
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
> and >
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
> asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two > official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest independent > nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese). > > In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
native-speakers
> of Tetum (see: >
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
> 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29). > > Subsequently, I created a test page > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen > articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to > Tetum. > > Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
a
> Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
can
> inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
up
> or not. > > I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
can
> be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national language > internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe d'Angelo > said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the > creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole > people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
basic
> infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There is > also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
Darwin,
> where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
of
> getting the message through to them." > > I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
in
> Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of all, > you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia. > > Plz let me know where are we standing of this. > > Thanks & regards, > Manuel de Sousa
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be thearbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
Mark
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be thearbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider
Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider swsnider@gmail.com wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
70.58.114.75 24.251.68.75
If you don't close rapidly and respect the decision of the vote concerning the DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA this is the result: disruptive personal attacks from Mark addressed to other users.
future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote: Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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Who exactly are you? What is your agenda?
And what users are there to attack? The Romanians only come around every once in a while to agitate for deletion. They don't care about the WP other than that.
Mark
On 10/03/06, future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote:
70.58.114.75 24.251.68.75
If you don't close rapidly and respect the decision of the vote concerning the DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA this is the result: disruptive personal attacks from Mark addressed to other users.
future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote: Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
quote<<Who are you?>>quote
This is irrelevant for this talk.
quote<<What is your agenda?>>quote
I have no agenda but you seem to have many hidden agendas here. One of them is your anti-romanian agenda. Your political agenda is seen from miles away.
Actually, you don't care about the wikipedia since you made just "cut and paste" edits there. All your edits are either "cut and paste", "personal attacks against romanians" or they are lacking of content. You couldn't even find a single contributor to vote against it. You don't speak romanian or "moldovan", and you're in a situation of lying everything. You may count on people's ignorance but you can't hide the truth: you're a russian anti-romanian boy.
Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote: Who exactly are you? And what users are there to attack? The Romanians only come around every once in a while to agitate for deletion. They don't care about the WP other than that.
Mark
On 10/03/06, future civilization wrote:
70.58.114.75 24.251.68.75
If you don't close rapidly and respect the decision of the vote concerning the DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA this is the result: disruptive personal attacks from Mark addressed to other users.
future civilization wrote: Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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This looks like a good time for the list moderator to step in. Who is currently administering this mailing list?
~Mark Ryan
You can send a mail to wikipedia-l-owner@wikimedia.org to get the attention of the list moderators. Regards Michael
On 3/11/06, Mark Ryan ultrablue@gmail.com wrote:
This looks like a good time for the list moderator to step in. Who is currently administering this mailing list?
~Mark Ryan _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Regards Michael Bimmler
Mark Ryan wrote:
This looks like a good time for the list moderator to step in. Who is currently administering this mailing list?
~Mark Ryan
Brion... you know, the guy who will freeze the Moldovan wikipedia and wiktionary as soon as he gets the time :-)
Right.
1) Agreement to close the project.
The community voted on the issue. Even if I might agree with Node that there might be some issues in the vote, I think that there was a rather straigthforward feedback.
Angela and Jimbo are both agreeing the projects in mo should be closed. We agreed that if there is a re-opening one day, it will be per board decision (or any person or committee with a delegation to approve new language opening). But right now, let the discussion on the matter be *closed*. Give us all a break please.
2) Closing the project
We are waiting from Brion to freeze them. This is not urgent, not a matter of vandalism. If not done in a couple of days, please remind Brion :-)
3) Vandalism
I would prefer that Mark stop editing the project. Now, let us be fair, creating a bunch of articles is not vandalism. It will not either benefit, nor hurt the project if a couple of additional pages are added before it is closed. If you mind, just blank or delete them. More wisely, just do not pay attention. It is no big deal.
4) Civility
Future civilization, the tone of your emails is not making people happy on the list. I can not say if Node is making personal attack on the wiki (I am not convinced, usually Mark is civil), but what you do here is *exactly* personal attacks. This is not acceptable. You are on moderation.
Anthere
Again, Anthere, the main problem with the vote is the definition of "community". How many of the voters edited the mo.wikipedia at all other than to vote? Very few.
Mark
On 11/03/06, Anthere Anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Mark Ryan wrote:
This looks like a good time for the list moderator to step in. Who is currently administering this mailing list?
~Mark Ryan
Brion... you know, the guy who will freeze the Moldovan wikipedia and wiktionary as soon as he gets the time :-)
Right.
- Agreement to close the project.
The community voted on the issue. Even if I might agree with Node that there might be some issues in the vote, I think that there was a rather straigthforward feedback.
Angela and Jimbo are both agreeing the projects in mo should be closed. We agreed that if there is a re-opening one day, it will be per board decision (or any person or committee with a delegation to approve new language opening). But right now, let the discussion on the matter be *closed*. Give us all a break please.
- Closing the project
We are waiting from Brion to freeze them. This is not urgent, not a matter of vandalism. If not done in a couple of days, please remind Brion :-)
- Vandalism
I would prefer that Mark stop editing the project. Now, let us be fair, creating a bunch of articles is not vandalism. It will not either benefit, nor hurt the project if a couple of additional pages are added before it is closed. If you mind, just blank or delete them. More wisely, just do not pay attention. It is no big deal.
- Civility
Future civilization, the tone of your emails is not making people happy on the list. I can not say if Node is making personal attack on the wiki (I am not convinced, usually Mark is civil), but what you do here is *exactly* personal attacks. This is not acceptable. You are on moderation.
Anthere
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
Who the hell are you, Mr. "future civilization"? I've stayed out of all these threads because the existence or nonexistence of the Moldovan Wikipedia neither affects nor interests me, but the tone of your messages has been utterly unacceptable. This list exists to improve Wikipedia. Nothing you've said can be construed as productive in any way- it's pure attack.
Calm down and be civil if you want to be taken seriously.
-- Jake Nelson [[en:User:Jake Nelson]]
PS. Real authority is not something that comes from age. It's earned, it comes from being worthy of being respected. To dismiss someone because they are "only 16-17 years" old is a grave error, and says nothing positive about your judgment.
future civilization wrote:
70.58.114.75 24.251.68.75
If you don't close rapidly and respect the decision of the vote concerning the DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA this is the result: disruptive personal attacks from Mark addressed to other users.
future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote: Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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You see Jake, you have to speak with Mark about it. He seems not to understand and not to accept a free, democratic vote on the DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. His tone of his messages have been utterly unacceptable. Why doesn't he respect the vote? Absolute majority of the users have voted for DELETION. This marky didn't even vote against it.
Now, if you all allow him to make a circle out of this fine. It's your problem to calm him and teach him a lesson of how to respect others. If you allow him to continue this disruptive edits is also fine. After all, it's up to you to stop him. He has no authority in that matter whatsoever as he admits.
Can you see that he didn't made a single valuable edit on that wikipedia? He made only "cut and paste" from the Romanian one.
He did more: he made several attacks on other users as well. Nothing he said can be construed as productive in any way- it's pure attack against romanians. Mark is known as having hatred against romanians. Check his user page.
He lost all his friends and all his credibility when he started saying lies all over. He asks for attention and he will not received any of it. Go away marky you made too many disruptive emails here from many years now. You're annoying everybody here with your hatred against romanians. You'll remain a 16-17 year old russian anti-romanian.
Jake Nelson duskwave@gmail.com wrote: Who the hell are you, Mr. "future civilization"? I've stayed out of all these threads because the existence or nonexistence of the Moldovan Wikipedia neither affects nor interests me, but the tone of your messages has been utterly unacceptable. This list exists to improve Wikipedia. Nothing you've said can be construed as productive in any way- it's pure attack.
Calm down and be civil if you want to be taken seriously.
-- Jake Nelson [[en:User:Jake Nelson]]
PS. Real authority is not something that comes from age. It's earned, it comes from being worthy of being respected. To dismiss someone because they are "only 16-17 years" old is a grave error, and says nothing positive about your judgment.
future civilization wrote:
70.58.114.75 24.251.68.75
If you don't close rapidly and respect the decision of the vote concerning the DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA this is the result: disruptive personal attacks from Mark addressed to other users.
future civilization wrote: Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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--------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
On 3/11/06, future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote:
You see Jake, you have to speak with Mark about it. He seems not to understand and not to accept a free, democratic vote on the DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. His tone of his messages have been utterly unacceptable. Why doesn't he respect the vote? Absolute majority of the users have voted for DELETION. This marky didn't even vote against it.
Wikipedia is not a democracy.
The edits to which Mr Civilization is referring are a number of articles I created, for example http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997
Now, the last time I checked, creation of stub articles is hardly a bannable offence.
Mark
On 10/03/06, future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote:
Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
No only that Marky and try not to play who's the smart around here. You breake the decision taken by Anthere here where she told you to stop editing and respecting the result of the vote. You're not allowed to edit that wikipedia again? Do you understand this? There was a vote about it, I don't care if you didn't vote or not. Many other people voted and now its time for you to accept it.
It's so hard for you to accept this? You must accept Anthere's decision and don't you ever edit that wikipedia again. You russian anti-romanian.
Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote: The edits to which Mr Civilization is referring are a number of articles I created, for example http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997
Now, the last time I checked, creation of stub articles is hardly a bannable offence.
Mark
On 10/03/06, future civilization wrote:
Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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--------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Please try and refrain from making personal attacks.
Fran
On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 07:14 -0800, future civilization wrote:
No only that Marky and try not to play who's the smart around here. You breake the decision taken by Anthere here where she told you to stop editing and respecting the result of the vote. You're not allowed to edit that wikipedia again? Do you understand this? There was a vote about it, I don't care if you didn't vote or not. Many other people voted and now its time for you to accept it.
It's so hard for you to accept this? You must accept Anthere's decision and don't you ever edit that wikipedia again. You russian anti-romanian.
Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote: The edits to which Mr Civilization is referring are a number of articles I created, for example http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997
Now, the last time I checked, creation of stub articles is hardly a bannable offence.
Mark
On 10/03/06, future civilization wrote:
Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Tell this to marky please, he MUST respect the decision taken by ANTHERE here to delete that Wikipedia and not to edit there. He must respect the result of the vote. He must try and refrain from making personal attacks there as he did.
Every edit made there on the Moldovan Wikipedia is a personal attacks against romanians/moldovans and is a real proof of his anti-romanian feelings.
Anti-Romanian (alternatively spelled antiromanism) is hostility toward or prejudice against Romanians as a religious, ethnic, or racial group, which can range from individual hatred to institutionalized, violent persecution. Is what Mark Williamson just makes there.
Francis Tyers spectre@ivixor.net wrote: Please try and refrain from making personal attacks.
Fran
On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 07:14 -0800, future civilization wrote:
No only that Marky and try not to play who's the smart around here. You breake the decision taken by Anthere here where she told you to stop editing and respecting the result of the vote. You're not allowed to edit that wikipedia again? Do you understand this? There was a vote about it, I don't care if you didn't vote or not. Many other people voted and now its time for you to accept it.
It's so hard for you to accept this? You must accept Anthere's decision and don't you ever edit that wikipedia again. You russian anti-romanian.
Mark Williamson wrote: The edits to which Mr Civilization is referring are a number of articles I created, for example http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997
Now, the last time I checked, creation of stub articles is hardly a bannable offence.
Mark
On 10/03/06, future civilization wrote:
Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEESQELeGN0GHdxM0RA1bOAJ9cv+yhyURgAsRZtglt96Iqr+4gsACfQIRl hWdkEhAIf6yWdx9WCmbi3AU= =K/Tl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
--------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Please stop feeding this "future civilization" troll and ban him from the mailing list.
/Andreas On 3/11/06, future civilization future_civilization@yahoo.com wrote:
Tell this to marky please, he MUST respect the decision taken by ANTHERE here to delete that Wikipedia and not to edit there. He must respect the result of the vote. He must try and refrain from making personal attacks there as he did.
Every edit made there on the Moldovan Wikipedia is a personal attacks against romanians/moldovans and is a real proof of his anti-romanian feelings.
Anti-Romanian (alternatively spelled antiromanism) is hostility toward or prejudice against Romanians as a religious, ethnic, or racial group, which can range from individual hatred to institutionalized, violent persecution. Is what Mark Williamson just makes there.
Francis Tyers spectre@ivixor.net wrote: Please try and refrain from making personal attacks.
Fran
On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 07:14 -0800, future civilization wrote:
No only that Marky and try not to play who's the smart around here. You breake the decision taken by Anthere here where she told you to stop editing and respecting the result of the vote. You're not allowed to edit that wikipedia again? Do you understand this? There was a vote about it, I don't care if you didn't vote or not. Many other people voted and now its time for you to accept it.
It's so hard for you to accept this? You must accept Anthere's decision and don't you ever edit that wikipedia again. You russian anti-romanian.
Mark Williamson wrote: The edits to which Mr Civilization is referring are a number of articles I created, for example http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997
Now, the last time I checked, creation of stub articles is hardly a bannable offence.
Mark
On 10/03/06, future civilization wrote:
Several IPs coming from Phoenix, Arizona (home address of Mark W.) made several edits (and also several personal attacks) on Moldovan Wikipedia thus breaking the result of the vote to delete the Moldovan Wikipedia and decision taken to freeze/or to rapidly delete this wikipedia made here.
A ban for Mark for about a month maybe will chill him out and stop him from doing disruptive edits any more. A respect for the result of the vote would be too much from him as he immediately lounched himself in personal attacks.
There is no more talking about this Moldovan Wikipedia, people decided to close and delete it. Now, its your job to do it and respect the decision.
There was a vote for a long period of time: one month. Everybody had the chance to express himself and now the result of the vote shows very clear: people want DELETION OF MOLDOVAN WIKIPEDIA. Now, put this in practice.
future civilization wrote: Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Mark _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Sincerely, Silas Snider -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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Anthere wrote:
Andreas Vilén wrote:
Please stop feeding this "future civilization" troll and ban him from the mailing list.
/Andreas
Future civilization has been banned from wikipedia-l for more than 24 hours Andreas.
ant
By the way, someone is blanking all articles on mo.wikipedia, upon the motive that it was decided so, and point out to my email.
It is totally incorrect. I do not support blanking the pages, nor the deletion of the project.
This action, comments left by private email and comments left on my talk page is slowly beginning to get me a bit upset :-)
Ant
Oh... Sorry, I just got a bit upset I guess. Sorry about that.
/Andreas
On 3/12/06, Anthere Anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Andreas Vilén wrote:
Please stop feeding this "future civilization" troll and ban him from the mailing list.
/Andreas
Future civilization has been banned from wikipedia-l for more than 24 hours Andreas.
ant
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I would just like to add my own comments on all this.
At first, by the way Mark acted, I really thought he was the one who could decide if a new WP would be created or not. And, I agree, he was a bit harsh on the way he expressed his opinion.
Anyway, I think his arguments are valid and I really didnt felt threatened or intimidated by his words. I'm already 40 years old, so I guess I dont get intimidated that easily...
Well, give me a few weeks and I'll come back, hopefully, with o more vibrant test-wiki in Tetum!
But plz dont forget that, apart form being the youngest country in the world, East Timor is also the poorest country in Asia... So, all help is needed!
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de future civilization Enviada: sábado, 11 de Março de 2006 6:39 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder/ analogywith deletion of Moldovan Wikipedia
Yes, indeed. Mark doesn't have any authority and/or credibility, as himself admits. He is very interested in closing/opening any wikipedia but he uses a very disruptive language towards the new users. This disruptive language shows his limited comprehension on wikipedias in various languages. In this way he discourage people who are enthusiast to close/open new wikipedias. He has no power to decide for such a decision at the very least he wants to ask for attention. Maybe this is explained by his early age in life. You can't have any authority having only 16-17 years.
His style is to demolish everything and has a strongly counter-effect, a strong negative one on what happens in Wikipedia. I checked his blocking log and shows a mean, very strong negative behaviour.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
Silas Snider swsnider@gmail.com wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Mark Williamson wrote:
Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under advisement.
If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.
I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular interest as well.
No, its not a bad thing, I was just trying to establish why I thought you were not a developer (in case it turned out that you were).
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.
You appear to take an extremely keen interest in the closing / opening of wikipedias, more so than the average poster on this list. I am just worried about newcomers who are excited about creating a wikipedia getting discouraged because someone, without the community's backing, acted as though he had the power to approve or deny the request. This came out extremely strongly in your last message to Manuel.
I am not saying that you should stop being interested in the creation and destruction of wikipedias -- I am just worried about your style of discussing them.
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