Hoi,
For your information, formally Mark does not have authority. There are
few people who are seen to be authorortive. He is however one of the
people who knows a lot about what languages are. In this case the
point he made was great. I was accepted as such.
Now, when you complain about Mark, I want to point out two things;
* What is your authority on this subject that you challenge him?
I was not trying to assert my own authority (of which I have none).
Rather, I was reading the thread and I saw Mark and Manuel having an
exchange, with Manuel ending up backing down, and Mark accepting his
proposal as though Mark was the final decision maker. Since I may at
some point be interested in starting a new language wikipedia (though
not for another year at least), I was troubled by the fact that no one
else on the list was at all active in the discussion.
* You may have noticed that Mark has been really good
in not going
overboard lately.
Really? I would point you to the recent Moldovan wikipedia discussion as
disproof. While not 'overboard' for all meanings of the term, it would
have been nice to see a little more restraint in Mark's messages
(although definitely more restraint could have been showed by the other
participants)
Most often I welcome the points that Mark makes. Certainly when he
makes his point once they are the best that can be heard.
As to the Moldovan fracas, it has definetly not been the worst project
that we have seen. Some projects were / are much worse. They are just
not that "in the public eye".
Thanks,
GerardM
On 3/9/06, Silas Snider <swsnider(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Question:
What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia?
Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of
yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in
various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the
arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Sincerely,
Silas Snider
Mark Williamson wrote:
>>> Yes, thanks.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa(a)tvtel.pt> wrote:
>>>> I understand you point of view, Mark.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month,
or so.
>>>> Does this seem fair to you?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks & regards,
>>>> Manuel de Sousa
>>>>
>>>> -----Mensagem original-----
>>>> De: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)Wikimedia.org
>>>> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson
>>>> Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:50
>>>> Para: wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
>>>> Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
>>>>
>>>> I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
>>>>
>>>> That's not what I asked.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test
wiki
>>>> are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa(a)tvtel.pt> wrote:
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>> Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is
regarded
>>>> as
>>>>> a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of
vocabulary
>>>>> comes directly from Portuguese.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters
of
>>>> this
>>>>> project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So,
the
>>>> easy
>>>>> way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few
articles,
>>>> in
>>>>> order to translate them later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be
tolerated.
>>>>> Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Manuel de Sousa
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Mensagem original-----
>>>>> De: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)Wikimedia.org
>>>>> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark
Williamson
>>>>> Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30
>>>>> Para: wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
>>>>> Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese.
Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa(a)tvtel.pt> wrote:
>>>>>> Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
>>>>>>
>>>>
(
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
>>>>>> asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of
the two
>>>>>> official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
>>>>> independent
>>>>>> nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
>>>> native-speakers
>>>>>> of Tetum (see:
>>>>>>
>>>>
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
>>>>>> 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subsequently, I created a test page
>>>>>> (
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a
dozen
>>>>>> articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being
translated to
>>>>>> Tetum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to
work in
>>>> a
>>>>>> Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any
developer
>>>> can
>>>>>> inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to
the set
>>>> up
>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable,
and that it
>>>> can
>>>>>> be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their
national
>>>>> language
>>>>>> internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling.
Giuseppe
>>>>> d'Angelo
>>>>>> said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what
such a venture [the
>>>>>> creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of
a whole
>>>>>> people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems
with
>>>> basic
>>>>>> infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually
succeed. There
>>>>> is
>>>>>> also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in
nearby
>>>> Darwin,
>>>>>> where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's
just a case
>>>> of
>>>>>> getting the message through to them."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in
Australia,
>>>> in
>>>>>> Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But,
first of
>>>>> all,
>>>>>> you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks & regards,
>>>>>> Manuel de Sousa
>>>> --
>>>> "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph
Stalin
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>> Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
>>>>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>>> Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
>>>>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>> Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
>>>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>>
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla -
http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEESJzLeGN0GHdxM0RA5E7AJoDVyd2/l4qTg/XzBEZz5vRPfdW5wCfVkH+
gKaWS6KgwiMfAlM6l52N0I8=
=8/we
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----