Roger said "The board backed "a man with a plan". It does this frequently and I believe the offer is open to ladies too." OK here is a plan. Here http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Expert_outreach it says "Wikimedia UK is working with scientists, scholars, learned societies and funders to help experts improve Wikipedia and its sister projects, bringing their knowledge to the widest possible public." I don't know why Wikipedia officially needs experts, given the proven success of crowdsourcing, but in any case I have many contacts in the expert world of medieval studies, and could certainly help with a plan to improve the pages on the medieval intellectual tradition, which are dire. E.g. the page on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duns_Scotus Scotus, who was one of the most significant medieval thinkers, and a credit to Scotland (or England, actually, given that his birthplace may have in England at the time, although Wikipedia does not mention this).
The current article is in a terrible state. It repeats the legend about Scotus' premature burial, which has for a long time been conclusively refuted http://lyfaber.blogspot.co.uk/2007/05/heres-few-weird-quotes-i-ran-across.ht... , and no modern biography mentions it. It says he is the 'founder of Scotism' which is bizarre ('Scotism' so-called was a later idea). It says 'he came out of the Old Franciscan School' which is not mentioned in any modern discussion of Scotus (I suspect it is a plagiarism from the Catholic Encyclopedia). Even more bizarrely it says "Duns Scotus is usually considered the beginning of the formal Scottish tradition of philosophy which moved through Duns Scotus, Adam Smith, David Hume, Thomas Reid and John Stuart Mill." There is no such movement, at least no direct relationship, and the claim is absurd.
The sections on his thought, like all such sections in the Wikipedia biographies of thinkers, is risibly light. We know very little of the lives of medieval theologians and philosophers, yet we know much about their thought, and a good reference work should reflect this, as well as making the difficulties of their thought intelligible to a general audience. I'm sure crowdsourcing could achieve this, as Thomas Dalton says, but it hasn't so far after more than ten years of Wikipedia. Some of those sections I wrote anyway.
Or compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sum_of_logic, which is merely a list, with the much longer and far more comprehensive article here http://www.logicmuseum.com/wiki/Summa_Logicae_(Ockham) .
Anyway, enough criticism. I have a plan for working with WMUK to improve these articles, and if anyone is interested in the details, let me know.
Not a criticism, just curious. Why do you not just improve the article(s) yourself, rather than devising a "plan" to involve many others - which would inevitably take a great deal of time and effort, and not necessarily achieve a much better result?
From: edward@logicmuseum.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 09:59:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] A V Denham
Roger said "The board backed "a man with a plan". It does this frequently and I believe the offer is open to ladies too." OK here is a plan. Here http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Expert_outreach it says "Wikimedia UK is working with scientists, scholars, learned societies and funders to help experts improve Wikipedia and its sister projects, bringing their knowledge to the widest possible public." I don't know why Wikipedia officially needs experts, given the proven success of crowdsourcing, but in any case I have many contacts in the expert world of medieval studies, and could certainly help with a plan to improve the pages on the medieval intellectual tradition, which are dire. E.g. the page on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duns_Scotus Scotus, who was one of the most significant medieval thinkers, and a credit to Scotland (or England, actually, given that his birthplace may have in England at the time, although Wikipedia does not mention this).
The current article is in a terrible state. It repeats the legend about Scotus' premature burial, which has for a long time been conclusively refuted http://lyfaber.blogspot.co.uk/2007/05/heres-few-weird-quotes-i-ran-across.ht... , and no modern biography mentions it. It says he is the 'founder of Scotism' which is bizarre ('Scotism' so-called was a later idea). It says 'he came out of the Old Franciscan School' which is not mentioned in any modern discussion of Scotus (I suspect it is a plagiarism from the Catholic Encyclopedia). Even more bizarrely it says "Duns Scotus is usually considered the beginning of the formal Scottish tradition of philosophy which moved through Duns Scotus, Adam Smith, David Hume, Thomas Reid and John Stuart Mill." There is no such movement, at least no direct relationship, and the claim is absurd.
The sections on his thought, like all such sections in the Wikipedia biographies of thinkers, is risibly light. We know very little of the lives of medieval theologians and philosophers, yet we know much about their thought, and a good reference work should reflect this, as well as making the difficulties of their thought intelligible to a general audience. I'm sure crowdsourcing could achieve this, as Thomas Dalton says, but it hasn't so far after more than ten years of Wikipedia. Some of those sections I wrote anyway.
Or compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sum_of_logic, which is merely a list, with the much longer and far more comprehensive article here http://www.logicmuseum.com/wiki/Summa_Logicae_(Ockham) .
Anyway, enough criticism. I have a plan for working with WMUK to improve these articles, and if anyone is interested in the details, let me know.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
On 25 May 2012 10:51, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
Not a criticism, just curious. Why do you not just improve the article(s) yourself, rather than devising a "plan" to involve many others - which would inevitably take a great deal of time and effort, and not necessarily achieve a much better result?
Because he is banned from Wikipedia.
Tom
Oh. So what's the point in having people here, who are banned from WP?
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:54:35 +0100 From: morton.thomas@googlemail.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] A V Denham
On 25 May 2012 10:51, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
Not a criticism, just curious. Why do you not just improve the article(s) yourself, rather than devising a "plan" to involve many others - which would inevitably take a great deal of time and effort, and not necessarily achieve a much better result?
Because he is banned from Wikipedia. Tom
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On 25 May 2012 10:55, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
Oh. So what's the point in having people here, who are banned from WP?
Well, Wikipedia is only one part of the family :)
Tom
Indeed - just because one is banned from Wikipedia, doesn't mean they are banned from Commons, Wikiversity, Wikinews, the other projects or Meta.
Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Disclaimer viewable at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Email_disclaimer Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
On 25 May 2012 10:57, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
On 25 May 2012 10:55, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
Oh. So what's the point in having people here, who are banned from WP?
Well, Wikipedia is only one part of the family :)
Tom
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Je comprends.
From: richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:01:03 +0100 To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] A V Denham
Indeed - just because one is banned from Wikipedia, doesn't mean they are banned from Commons, Wikiversity, Wikinews, the other projects or Meta.Richard SymondsWikimedia UK
0207 065 0992Disclaimer viewable at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Email_disclaimer
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
On 25 May 2012 10:57, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
On 25 May 2012 10:55, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
Oh. So what's the point in having people here, who are banned from WP?
Well, Wikipedia is only one part of the family :) Tom
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On 25 May 2012 11:01, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Indeed - just because one is banned from Wikipedia, doesn't mean they are banned from Commons, Wikiversity, Wikinews, the other projects or Meta.
However, I believe Edward is also banned from WMUK events, which would make it a little difficult for him to organise WMUK initiatives...
On 25 May 2012 10:55, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
Oh. So what's the point in having people here, who are banned from WP?
A ban from the English Wikipedia is not a ban from Commons, Wikisource, and in fact from about 600+ other Wikimedia projects.
Charles
One problem with "crowd sourcing" is clearly that people feel the need to repeat what others have already said. ;-)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:06:44 +0100 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] A V Denham
On 25 May 2012 10:55, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
Oh. So what's the point in having people here, who are banned from WP?
A ban from the English Wikipedia is not a ban from Commons, Wikisource, and in fact from about 600+ other Wikimedia projects.
Charles
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
On 25 May 2012 11:08, Guy Hamilton ghmyrtle@hotmail.com wrote:
One problem with "crowd sourcing" is clearly that people feel the need to repeat what others have already said. ;-)
One problem with email is that people sometimes assume it is a synchronous medium.
Charles
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org