Hi all,
I've been having a look at membership numbers. Generally speaking, we have had a high proportion of 'current' members in grace since I took up this post i.e. people seem to chose to leave it quite a while before getting round to renewal.
I asked for clarification on why historically we chose to have a six month grace period - Mike suggested that it came from the model document for the Articles from the charity commission, namely article 4.3: [Membership is terminated if:] any sum due from the member to the charity is not paid in full within six months of it falling due. (Seehttp://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association#Termination_of_Membership our articles)
In addition to this I'm aware that other groups (certainly UK political parties) have a six month grace period, and that the general idea is to enable as many as possible to be eligible to vote at a given EGM or AGM.
So - I'm not advocating FOR a reduction in limiting the grace period to a shorter time span (say, three months) but rather seeking your thoughts on whether that would be a good or a bad idea and why, much like I did when asking about verifying the identity of members applying for membership. Candid responses welcome.
For the record, I don't think reducing the grace period will mean we have more members, I just think that in terms of keeping people engaged allowing the long lapse mightn't be helpful. You'll be glad to know the next membership newsletter email will indicate the status of the recipients membership as current or grace and include a link to the renewals page :)
Thanks!
*Katherine Bavage * *Fundraising Manager * *Wikimedia UK* +44 20 7065 0949
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
On 7 February 2013 17:01, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
So - I'm not advocating FOR a reduction in limiting the grace period to a shorter time span (say, three months) but rather seeking your thoughts on whether that would be a good or a bad idea and why, much like I did when asking about verifying the identity of members applying for membership. Candid responses welcome.
I'm thinking you should nag us more.
*cough* I suspect I am one of said members. Where do I go to give you my money again?
- d.
On 7 February 2013 17:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 February 2013 17:01, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
So - I'm not advocating FOR a reduction in limiting the grace period to a shorter time span (say, three months) but rather seeking your thoughts on whether that would be a good or a bad idea and why, much like I did when asking about verifying the identity of members applying for membership. Candid responses welcome.
I'm thinking you should nag us more.
*cough* I suspect I am one of said members. Where do I go to give you my money again?
Yeah, I'm with David - active members in grace are mostly just forgetful :-). As there are virtually no things for which being a member is essential other than voting, it's very easy to not get around to it...
Is it possible to set up recurring membership dues as a direct debit?
I'm with David and Andrew. The chapter should send out an email when membership expires and perhaps send a couple of reminders at given intervals. I don't know if this is done now. I know a notification was experimented with a few months ago, but before then there was no easy way to know if your membership has expired or not.
Similarly, I don't if t's done now, but there didn't used to be an acknowledgement of a membership application. If it's not done already, the chapter should certainly send out a "thank you for your £5, your membership is awaiting approval" and then a "your membership has been approved" email. Harry Mitchell
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
________________________________ From: Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk To: UK Wikimedia mailing list wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 17:40 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Membership grace period
On 7 February 2013 17:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 February 2013 17:01, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
So - I'm not advocating FOR a reduction in limiting the grace period to a shorter time span (say, three months) but rather seeking your thoughts on whether that would be a good or a bad idea and why, much like I did when asking about verifying the identity of members applying for membership. Candid responses welcome.
I'm thinking you should nag us more.
*cough* I suspect I am one of said members. Where do I go to give you my money again?
Yeah, I'm with David - active members in grace are mostly just forgetful :-). As there are virtually no things for which being a member is essential other than voting, it's very easy to not get around to it...
Is it possible to set up recurring membership dues as a direct debit?
I agree, definitely nag us more. We're a forgetful lot! On Feb 7, 2013 5:56 PM, "HJ Mitchell" hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
I'm with David and Andrew. The chapter should send out an email when membership expires and perhaps send a couple of reminders at given intervals. I don't know if this is done now. I know a notification was experimented with a few months ago, but before then there was no easy way to know if your membership has expired or not.
Similarly, I don't if t's done now, but there didn't used to be an acknowledgement of a membership application. If it's not done already, the chapter should certainly send out a "thank you for your £5, your membership is awaiting approval" and then a "your membership has been approved" email.
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
*From:* Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk *To:* UK Wikimedia mailing list wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Thursday, 7 February 2013, 17:40 *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Membership grace period
On 7 February 2013 17:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 February 2013 17:01, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
So - I'm not advocating FOR a reduction in limiting the grace period to
a
shorter time span (say, three months) but rather seeking your thoughts
on
whether that would be a good or a bad idea and why, much like I did when asking about verifying the identity of members applying for membership. Candid responses welcome.
I'm thinking you should nag us more.
*cough* I suspect I am one of said members. Where do I go to give you my money again?
Yeah, I'm with David - active members in grace are mostly just forgetful :-). As there are virtually no things for which being a member is essential other than voting, it's very easy to not get around to it...
Is it possible to set up recurring membership dues as a direct debit?
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Personally, I joined in 2010 and got a renewal email a year later in 2011 which I forgot to act upon, and another one in 2012 (despite presumably being a very lapsed member by then) after which I actually did get round to renewing. Perhaps if I had received a second follow-up email in 2011, I might have renewed then. So gentle reminders would be good.This is because I am incredibly disorganised, so I always forget things like this and even when I remember there is usually something more urgent. This doesn't mean I am not interested in the work of the charity and potentially would even still like to get involved.
Regarding the renewal, I would also welcome the opportunity to pay my fees via Direct Debit and automatically renew every year, just because then I can set it up once and basically forget about the admin side of things.
Also, out of curiosity, why is there not a gift-aid declaration on the membership page? As far as I can see from HMRC, membership fees such as Wikimedia UK's should be eligible as they don't confer any benefits other than membership.
James
On 7 February 2013 17:50, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
I'm with David and Andrew. The chapter should send out an email when membership expires and perhaps send a couple of reminders at given intervals. I don't know if this is done now. I know a notification was experimented with a few months ago, but before then there was no easy way to know if your membership has expired or not.
Similarly, I don't if t's done now, but there didn't used to be an acknowledgement of a membership application. If it's not done already, the chapter should certainly send out a "thank you for your £5, your membership is awaiting approval" and then a "your membership has been approved" email.
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
*From:* Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk *To:* UK Wikimedia mailing list wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Thursday, 7 February 2013, 17:40 *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Membership grace period
On 7 February 2013 17:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 February 2013 17:01, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
So - I'm not advocating FOR a reduction in limiting the grace period to
a
shorter time span (say, three months) but rather seeking your thoughts
on
whether that would be a good or a bad idea and why, much like I did when asking about verifying the identity of members applying for membership. Candid responses welcome.
I'm thinking you should nag us more.
*cough* I suspect I am one of said members. Where do I go to give you my money again?
Yeah, I'm with David - active members in grace are mostly just forgetful :-). As there are virtually no things for which being a member is essential other than voting, it's very easy to not get around to it...
Is it possible to set up recurring membership dues as a direct debit?
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
One suggestion: allow members to sign up for multiple years in advance. I'm perfectly happy to pay for two or three years of membership in one go.
There may be some practical issues, such as whether or not if one were to, say, sign up for a three year membership but resign after a year, the remainder would be refunded as unused.
If it were offered, I'd certainly be happy to pay for a few years in advance so that I don't have the mildly irritating situation of wanting to run some kind of outreach event and not being able to apply for a microgrant because my membership has lapsed.
I think this is already possible :) I actually paid for two years at once, because that was the amount of pounds I happened to have left over - not sure if people will get mad at me now if I make their lives more complicated, but asking nicely brings you a long way! :)
Lodewijk
2013/2/7 Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org
One suggestion: allow members to sign up for multiple years in advance. I'm perfectly happy to pay for two or three years of membership in one go.
There may be some practical issues, such as whether or not if one were to, say, sign up for a three year membership but resign after a year, the remainder would be refunded as unused.
If it were offered, I'd certainly be happy to pay for a few years in advance so that I don't have the mildly irritating situation of wanting to run some kind of outreach event and not being able to apply for a microgrant because my membership has lapsed.
-- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
How do we check our membership? Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
I think this is already possible :) I actually paid for two years at once, because that was the amount of pounds I happened to have left over - not sure if people will get mad at me now if I make their lives more complicated, but asking nicely brings you a long way! :)
Lodewijk
2013/2/7 Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org
One suggestion: allow members to sign up for multiple years in advance. I'm perfectly happy to pay for two or three years of membership in one go.
There may be some practical issues, such as whether or not if one were to, say, sign up for a three year membership but resign after a year, the remainder would be refunded as unused.
If it were offered, I'd certainly be happy to pay for a few years in advance so that I don't have the mildly irritating situation of wanting to run some kind of outreach event and not being able to apply for a microgrant because my membership has lapsed.
-- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
I think the main point there is that WMUK office needs to remind people every time their membership is supposed to expire, with concise instructions about how to renew their membership.
If they do exceed the grace period, then email them again, this time simply saying their membership has expired, also with instructions on how to pay their fees and resume their membership. If they don't renew it, then, bye.
With these two in place I think we've got all bases covered :)
Hello all,
Well all I shall happily say in reply is '*be careful what you wish for*'.... I shall consider myself to have been given a mandate To Nag (nicely, of course) and (as far I can tell) there's no appetite to reduce the grace period.
To come back on specific points:
- Now we have a separate bank account for membership fees its certainly possible to set up a standing order for the fee - I'll look into direct debits too and update you all with some 'How-to' instructions on wiki next week. We've previously been cautious in setting this up because we have had a problem in the past with standing orders with no useful reference number against them, and therefore not being to identify who the money came from and for what when it was all going into the same account. - Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record longer terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record explaining why. - No, if someone's term ended due to, say resignation or expulsion, but they paid for a longer period than that n advance, I don't' think we could prudently refund the money (money laundering regs - yes I know, a bit of an OTT application in this context, but still). So, people would have to accept that in paying, say £10 for a two-year membership term that if they resigned etc then the additional sum would be taken to be a donation. - *At the moment* everyone who is approaching expiry will get an automated email - however, as we've all identified, one isn't enough. It's my intention now that each monthly newsletter email contain a field indicating if the recipient's membership is current or grace and the date of their term end. I'm hoping that improvements in our database hosting may mean that members can check this online in the future - however, I need to investigate the challenges this may present too, so I can't promise anything just yet (but I'm aware it would be a good feature to offer) - If you want to know if you membership is current, email membership@wikimedia.org.uk and I can check for you! Or check your most recent newsletter from this month on... - Gift aid - yes, membership fees are eligible. I'm acutely aware the online gift aid form is currently on the fritz and have requested this be fixed - when it is, again, we can include mention in the newsletter that members should make a declaration if they want their fees to attract this tax relief. In the meantime, any keen bean who wants a paper form to fill in, again, membership@wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks for the quick and helpful responses all :)
Kat
On 8 February 2013 14:12, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
How do we check our membership? Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
I think this is already possible :) I actually paid for two years at once, because that was the amount of pounds I happened to have left over - not sure if people will get mad at me now if I make their lives more complicated, but asking nicely brings you a long way! :)
Lodewijk
2013/2/7 Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org
One suggestion: allow members to sign up for multiple years in advance. I'm perfectly happy to pay for two or three years of membership in one go.
There may be some practical issues, such as whether or not if one were to, say, sign up for a three year membership but resign after a year, the remainder would be refunded as unused.
If it were offered, I'd certainly be happy to pay for a few years in advance so that I don't have the mildly irritating situation of wanting to run some kind of outreach event and not being able to apply for a microgrant because my membership has lapsed.
-- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- Doug Weller http://www.ramtops.co.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Hi Kat,
sounds all great! However, if I may suggest, including it in the newsletter is unlikely to be a very helpful reminder. I myself at least ignore at least 75% of every newsletter I actually open, and this includes everything that looks too structured (such as these fields). If you want these people to remain active, I suggest to send at least two reminders (as seperate emails) which look very different from regular WMUK mail (from a special email address, without usual tags in the topic, etc) to avoid that they get cought in automated email filters that put WMUK news letters in the WMUK-never-to-look-at-folder (yeah, people do that - so horrible!). Having the status in the newsletter besides that might be helpful though - because it gives positive confirmation that everything is all right.
Best, Lodewijk (notorious for forgetting to pay on first notice)
2013/2/8 Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk
Hello all,
Well all I shall happily say in reply is '*be careful what you wish for*'.... I shall consider myself to have been given a mandate To Nag (nicely, of course) and (as far I can tell) there's no appetite to reduce the grace period.
To come back on specific points:
- Now we have a separate bank account for membership fees its
certainly possible to set up a standing order for the fee - I'll look into direct debits too and update you all with some 'How-to' instructions on wiki next week. We've previously been cautious in setting this up because we have had a problem in the past with standing orders with no useful reference number against them, and therefore not being to identify who the money came from and for what when it was all going into the same account.
- Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record
longer terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record explaining why.
- No, if someone's term ended due to, say resignation or expulsion,
but they paid for a longer period than that n advance, I don't' think we could prudently refund the money (money laundering regs - yes I know, a bit of an OTT application in this context, but still). So, people would have to accept that in paying, say £10 for a two-year membership term that if they resigned etc then the additional sum would be taken to be a donation.
- *At the moment* everyone who is approaching expiry will get an
automated email - however, as we've all identified, one isn't enough. It's my intention now that each monthly newsletter email contain a field indicating if the recipient's membership is current or grace and the date of their term end. I'm hoping that improvements in our database hosting may mean that members can check this online in the future - however, I need to investigate the challenges this may present too, so I can't promise anything just yet (but I'm aware it would be a good feature to offer)
- If you want to know if you membership is current, email
membership@wikimedia.org.uk and I can check for you! Or check your most recent newsletter from this month on...
- Gift aid - yes, membership fees are eligible. I'm acutely aware the
online gift aid form is currently on the fritz and have requested this be fixed - when it is, again, we can include mention in the newsletter that members should make a declaration if they want their fees to attract this tax relief. In the meantime, any keen bean who wants a paper form to fill in, again, membership@wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks for the quick and helpful responses all :)
Kat
On 8 February 2013 14:12, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
How do we check our membership? Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
I think this is already possible :) I actually paid for two years at once, because that was the amount of pounds I happened to have left over - not sure if people will get mad at me now if I make their lives more complicated, but asking nicely brings you a long way! :)
Lodewijk
2013/2/7 Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org
One suggestion: allow members to sign up for multiple years in advance. I'm perfectly happy to pay for two or three years of membership in one go.
There may be some practical issues, such as whether or not if one were to, say, sign up for a three year membership but resign after a year, the remainder would be refunded as unused.
If it were offered, I'd certainly be happy to pay for a few years in advance so that I don't have the mildly irritating situation of wanting to run some kind of outreach event and not being able to apply for a microgrant because my membership has lapsed.
-- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- Doug Weller http://www.ramtops.co.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- *Katherine Bavage * *Fundraising Manager * *Wikimedia UK* +44 20 7065 0949
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Lol, at least you're honest about repeated reminders necessary (I'm the same myself)
Thanks for the feedback - I'll do my best to balance time limitations I have for membership stuff and reminding people frequently - I need to make sure I'm making the most of automation and templates.
Don;t worry - the 'newsletter' reminder will be in the email that links through to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself - and people do get an independent auto-reminder email, but I think you (and others in this discussion) are right - there needs to be two of these.
I'll keep thinking/tinkering and write up the process on wiki as I go. Please all keep feeding back on here, on the UK Wiki or by emailing membership@ as I'm finding the insight is useful :)
Kat
On 8 February 2013 15:43, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Kat,
sounds all great! However, if I may suggest, including it in the newsletter is unlikely to be a very helpful reminder. I myself at least ignore at least 75% of every newsletter I actually open, and this includes everything that looks too structured (such as these fields). If you want these people to remain active, I suggest to send at least two reminders (as seperate emails) which look very different from regular WMUK mail (from a special email address, without usual tags in the topic, etc) to avoid that they get cought in automated email filters that put WMUK news letters in the WMUK-never-to-look-at-folder (yeah, people do that - so horrible!). Having the status in the newsletter besides that might be helpful though - because it gives positive confirmation that everything is all right.
Best, Lodewijk (notorious for forgetting to pay on first notice)
2013/2/8 Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk
Hello all,
Well all I shall happily say in reply is '*be careful what you wish for*'.... I shall consider myself to have been given a mandate To Nag (nicely, of course) and (as far I can tell) there's no appetite to reduce the grace period.
To come back on specific points:
- Now we have a separate bank account for membership fees its
certainly possible to set up a standing order for the fee - I'll look into direct debits too and update you all with some 'How-to' instructions on wiki next week. We've previously been cautious in setting this up because we have had a problem in the past with standing orders with no useful reference number against them, and therefore not being to identify who the money came from and for what when it was all going into the same account.
- Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record
longer terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record explaining why.
- No, if someone's term ended due to, say resignation or expulsion,
but they paid for a longer period than that n advance, I don't' think we could prudently refund the money (money laundering regs - yes I know, a bit of an OTT application in this context, but still). So, people would have to accept that in paying, say £10 for a two-year membership term that if they resigned etc then the additional sum would be taken to be a donation.
- *At the moment* everyone who is approaching expiry will get an
automated email - however, as we've all identified, one isn't enough. It's my intention now that each monthly newsletter email contain a field indicating if the recipient's membership is current or grace and the date of their term end. I'm hoping that improvements in our database hosting may mean that members can check this online in the future - however, I need to investigate the challenges this may present too, so I can't promise anything just yet (but I'm aware it would be a good feature to offer)
- If you want to know if you membership is current, email
membership@wikimedia.org.uk and I can check for you! Or check your most recent newsletter from this month on...
- Gift aid - yes, membership fees are eligible. I'm acutely aware the
online gift aid form is currently on the fritz and have requested this be fixed - when it is, again, we can include mention in the newsletter that members should make a declaration if they want their fees to attract this tax relief. In the meantime, any keen bean who wants a paper form to fill in, again, membership@wikimedia.org.uk
Thanks for the quick and helpful responses all :)
Kat
On 8 February 2013 14:12, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
How do we check our membership? Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
I think this is already possible :) I actually paid for two years at once, because that was the amount of pounds I happened to have left over - not sure if people will get mad at me now if I make their lives more complicated, but asking nicely brings you a long way! :)
Lodewijk
2013/2/7 Tom Morris tom@tommorris.org
One suggestion: allow members to sign up for multiple years in advance. I'm perfectly happy to pay for two or three years of membership in one go.
There may be some practical issues, such as whether or not if one were to, say, sign up for a three year membership but resign after a year, the remainder would be refunded as unused.
If it were offered, I'd certainly be happy to pay for a few years in advance so that I don't have the mildly irritating situation of wanting to run some kind of outreach event and not being able to apply for a microgrant because my membership has lapsed.
-- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- Doug Weller http://www.ramtops.co.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- *Katherine Bavage * *Fundraising Manager * *Wikimedia UK* +44 20 7065 0949
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
On 8 February 2013 14:38, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record longer terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record explaining why.
How far in advance can we pay? If we pay in advance and the fee is increased, will you come after us with a baseball bat for the difference? Will people paying a long way in advance give you an administrative headache, for example from having to make allowance for it in the accounts?
Isn't a standard order better? You told me I can do that but I'm not clear how. Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
On 8 February 2013 14:38, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record longer terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record explaining why.
How far in advance can we pay? If we pay in advance and the fee is increased, will you come after us with a baseball bat for the difference? Will people paying a long way in advance give you an administrative headache, for example from having to make allowance for it in the accounts?
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
I think we need to update the pages on the wiki here. http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Help is rather out of date (and there's plenty of questions being asked here that could be answered there), http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Process could probably do with expanding, and maybe we even need to revise http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Rules to include things like paying for membership in advance as Tom is pointing out (maximum number of years, etc.), and some others (e.g. if you renew part-way through the grace period, do you get 12 months from then, or 12 months from the anniversary of your joining date - that's currently a bit ambiguous).
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Feb 2013, at 18:00, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
Isn't a standard order better? You told me I can do that but I'm not clear how. Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote: On 8 February 2013 14:38, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record longer terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record explaining why.
How far in advance can we pay? If we pay in advance and the fee is increased, will you come after us with a baseball bat for the difference? Will people paying a long way in advance give you an administrative headache, for example from having to make allowance for it in the accounts?
-- Mike Peel Secretary, Wikimedia UK http://mikepeel.net/ - @mike_peel http://wikimedia.org.uk/ - @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent charitable organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No. 1144513. The Registered Office is at 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT, United Kingdom.
I like the idea of updating the pages regarding membership on the WMUK site.
Also, I agree multiple reminders are helpful. I think the idea of changing the address so that the renewal isn't automatically fed to an archive folder would be helpful for people like me.
Excuse me for not having checked myself, but all membership dues are due at the same time each year, correct?
Thanks,
Jess
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Michael Peel <michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
I think we need to update the pages on the wiki here. http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Help is rather out of date (and there's plenty of questions being asked here that could be answered there), http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Process could probably do with expanding, and maybe we even need to revise http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Rules to include things like paying for membership in advance as Tom is pointing out (maximum number of years, etc.), and some others (e.g. if you renew part-way through the grace period, do you get 12 months from then, or 12 months from the anniversary of your joining date - that's currently a bit ambiguous).
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Feb 2013, at 18:00, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
Isn't a standard order better? You told me I can do that but I'm not clear how. Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
On 8 February 2013 14:38, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record longer terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record explaining why.
How far in advance can we pay? If we pay in advance and the fee is increased, will you come after us with a baseball bat for the difference? Will people paying a long way in advance give you an administrative headache, for example from having to make allowance for it in the accounts?
-- Mike Peel Secretary, Wikimedia UK http://mikepeel.net/ - @mike_peel http://wikimedia.org.uk/ - @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent charitable organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No. 1144513. The Registered Office is at 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT, United Kingdom.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
No Jess - each individual is due to renew at a different time each year, depending on when they joined. I joined on 5 December, I think: That means that I am due for renewal on 4 December. I will get an email just before that date.
Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
On 9 February 2013 20:27, Jessica Taylor jessica.s.taylor71@gmail.comwrote:
I like the idea of updating the pages regarding membership on the WMUK site.
Also, I agree multiple reminders are helpful. I think the idea of changing the address so that the renewal isn't automatically fed to an archive folder would be helpful for people like me.
Excuse me for not having checked myself, but all membership dues are due at the same time each year, correct?
Thanks,
Jess
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Michael Peel < michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
I think we need to update the pages on the wiki here. http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Help is rather out of date (and there's plenty of questions being asked here that could be answered there), http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Process could probably do with expanding, and maybe we even need to revise http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Rules to include things like paying for membership in advance as Tom is pointing out (maximum number of years, etc.), and some others (e.g. if you renew part-way through the grace period, do you get 12 months from then, or 12 months from the anniversary of your joining date - that's currently a bit ambiguous).
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Feb 2013, at 18:00, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
Isn't a standard order better? You told me I can do that but I'm not clear how. Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
On 8 February 2013 14:38, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record
longer
terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record
explaining
why.
How far in advance can we pay? If we pay in advance and the fee is increased, will you come after us with a baseball bat for the difference? Will people paying a long way in advance give you an administrative headache, for example from having to make allowance for it in the accounts?
-- Mike Peel Secretary, Wikimedia UK http://mikepeel.net/ - @mike_peel http://wikimedia.org.uk/ - @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent charitable organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No. 1144513. The Registered Office is at 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT, United Kingdom.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Richard, thanks for that explanation. I may be barking up the wrong tree but I'll jump in anyway.
If memberships became due each 1st of January, fundraising/dues collection could be easier. I realize that there would be many logistical hurdles which may moot this suggestion.
Is it plausible that WMUK could ask members if they'd be willing to pay both the membership from their next expiration date to the next normal expiration date PLUS their next year's dues for the year of 2014 with the understanding that their membership period will thenceforth be from January to January and will next be due on 1 January 2015. I realize that some members would say, "No."
Alternatively, could WMUK ask members if they would voluntarily relinquish their leftover membership periods at midnight on the 31 December 2013 AND start their memberships over the next day? Again I realize some members may say, "No," because of the lost value of X months of membership.
Final alternative, might WMUK ask members if to anonymously gift part-year memberships on behalf of other anonymous members from the date the membership in question expires. For a membership expiring on 5 September 2013, the donor would pay through 31 December 2013. Then the member receiving the gifted dues could pre-pay their membership for the year of 2014 on 5 September when they would have normally paid anyway. If this sort of thing were agreed to by all, I'd be willing to gift a couple of partial year memberships.
Just a thought,
Jess
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Richard Symonds < richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
No Jess - each individual is due to renew at a different time each year, depending on when they joined. I joined on 5 December, I think: That means that I am due for renewal on 4 December. I will get an email just before that date.
Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
On 9 February 2013 20:27, Jessica Taylor jessica.s.taylor71@gmail.comwrote:
I like the idea of updating the pages regarding membership on the WMUK site.
Also, I agree multiple reminders are helpful. I think the idea of changing the address so that the renewal isn't automatically fed to an archive folder would be helpful for people like me.
Excuse me for not having checked myself, but all membership dues are due at the same time each year, correct?
Thanks,
Jess
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Michael Peel < michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
I think we need to update the pages on the wiki here. http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Help is rather out of date (and there's plenty of questions being asked here that could be answered there), http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Process could probably do with expanding, and maybe we even need to revise http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Rules to include things like paying for membership in advance as Tom is pointing out (maximum number of years, etc.), and some others (e.g. if you renew part-way through the grace period, do you get 12 months from then, or 12 months from the anniversary of your joining date - that's currently a bit ambiguous).
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Feb 2013, at 18:00, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
Isn't a standard order better? You told me I can do that but I'm not clear how. Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
On 8 February 2013 14:38, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record
longer
terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record
explaining
why.
How far in advance can we pay? If we pay in advance and the fee is increased, will you come after us with a baseball bat for the difference? Will people paying a long way in advance give you an administrative headache, for example from having to make allowance for it in the accounts?
-- Mike Peel Secretary, Wikimedia UK http://mikepeel.net/ - @mike_peel http://wikimedia.org.uk/ - @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent charitable organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No. 1144513. The Registered Office is at 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT, United Kingdom.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Hi Jess,
First of Jan is an awkward time of year - people are most likely to get into debt over Xmas so I'd be cautious about trying to harmonise all our renewals at that time of year. If you have a bunch of regular AGM attenders who pay their memberships in cash then it is obviously easiest to get them to pay when they turn up at the AGM, but I doubt that greatly applies to us and I wouldn't recommend 1st Jan for an AGM.
There are many disadvantages to having all renewals on the same date. It means you are always signing up new members on the basis of a part year membership at one price followed hopefully by full year memberships; It concentrates all your membership renewal work in one point of the year; and it means there is a particular point in the year when your membership dips which could be awkward for special AGMs etc. If membership revenue was ever a significant part of our income it would also mean that our cashflow was distorted with a spike in our revenue that didn't coincide with a spike in expenditure.
By contrast I'm not aware of any advantage to having them all on the same date. So I'd suggest it is better to have them as evenly spread through the year as possible.
WSC
On 9 February 2013 22:35, Jessica Taylor jessica.s.taylor71@gmail.comwrote:
Richard, thanks for that explanation. I may be barking up the wrong tree but I'll jump in anyway.
If memberships became due each 1st of January, fundraising/dues collection could be easier. I realize that there would be many logistical hurdles which may moot this suggestion.
Is it plausible that WMUK could ask members if they'd be willing to pay both the membership from their next expiration date to the next normal expiration date PLUS their next year's dues for the year of 2014 with the understanding that their membership period will thenceforth be from January to January and will next be due on 1 January 2015. I realize that some members would say, "No."
Alternatively, could WMUK ask members if they would voluntarily relinquish their leftover membership periods at midnight on the 31 December 2013 AND start their memberships over the next day? Again I realize some members may say, "No," because of the lost value of X months of membership.
Final alternative, might WMUK ask members if to anonymously gift part-year memberships on behalf of other anonymous members from the date the membership in question expires. For a membership expiring on 5 September 2013, the donor would pay through 31 December 2013. Then the member receiving the gifted dues could pre-pay their membership for the year of 2014 on 5 September when they would have normally paid anyway. If this sort of thing were agreed to by all, I'd be willing to gift a couple of partial year memberships.
Just a thought,
Jess
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Richard Symonds < richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
No Jess - each individual is due to renew at a different time each year, depending on when they joined. I joined on 5 December, I think: That means that I am due for renewal on 4 December. I will get an email just before that date.
Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
On 9 February 2013 20:27, Jessica Taylor jessica.s.taylor71@gmail.comwrote:
I like the idea of updating the pages regarding membership on the WMUK site.
Also, I agree multiple reminders are helpful. I think the idea of changing the address so that the renewal isn't automatically fed to an archive folder would be helpful for people like me.
Excuse me for not having checked myself, but all membership dues are due at the same time each year, correct?
Thanks,
Jess
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Michael Peel < michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
I think we need to update the pages on the wiki here. http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Help is rather out of date (and there's plenty of questions being asked here that could be answered there), http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Process could probably do with expanding, and maybe we even need to revise http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Membership/Rules to include things like paying for membership in advance as Tom is pointing out (maximum number of years, etc.), and some others (e.g. if you renew part-way through the grace period, do you get 12 months from then, or 12 months from the anniversary of your joining date - that's currently a bit ambiguous).
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Feb 2013, at 18:00, Doug Weller dougweller@gmail.com wrote:
Isn't a standard order better? You told me I can do that but I'm not clear how. Doug
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
On 8 February 2013 14:38, Katherine Bavage katherine.bavage@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, you can pay for x number of years in advance - we can record
longer
terms on the database, and append notes to the contact record
explaining
why.
How far in advance can we pay? If we pay in advance and the fee is increased, will you come after us with a baseball bat for the difference? Will people paying a long way in advance give you an administrative headache, for example from having to make allowance for it in the accounts?
-- Mike Peel Secretary, Wikimedia UK http://mikepeel.net/ - @mike_peel http://wikimedia.org.uk/ - @wikimediauk
Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent charitable organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No. 1144513. The Registered Office is at 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT, United Kingdom.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Can you elaborate? What does interval arithmetic have to do with anything? On Feb 11, 2013 8:49 PM, "Gordon Joly" gordon.joly@pobox.com wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Interval_arithmetichttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_arithmetic
YMMV,
Gordo
______________________________**_________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lhttp://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
On 09/02/13 20:43, Richard Symonds wrote:
No Jess - each individual is due to renew at a different time each year, depending on when they joined. I joined on 5 December, I think: That means that I am due for renewal on 4 December. I will get an email just before that date.
Time to change? Match the membership renewals to the accounting year of "Wikimedia UK"?
Gordon
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org